windsor 5L vs Holden efi 5L

2tufracing · 26-02-2007, 06:18 PM

hey guys im sure every one has a mate with a holden injected 5L (VN,VP,VR,VS,VT). most of my mates have them and a couple are quick but most are stock. my eb 5lt is stock with a CAI, 3.45's and punched cats. has anybody took notice of how they go against holden 5lt in ford 5lts i have beaten a VP SS with a stage 2 auto and cat back exhaust and beaten a VN SS with stage 2 auto, 3g stall, 3.9s and cat back exhaust. but ive also been beaten by other ones. who is beating them who isnt?

Kryton · 26-02-2007, 06:21 PM

who cares.
get a life.

**Falcon Coupe** · 26-02-2007, 06:23 PM

You raced them at Calder park and put the correct "cats" back on after of course ?

BTW Caspers AUXR6 has beaten a VRSS. At Heathcote.

nugget378 · 26-02-2007, 06:27 PM

Wanna hope no one calls the RSPCA on ya for punching them cats..

Lukeyson · 26-02-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Wanna hope no one calls the RSPCA on ya for punching them cats..

hahahahaha

bah, the 308 was a slug, like early windsors i guess. Atleast the Windsor can sound nice, not like it has PVC pipe for an exhaust !

Psycho Chicken · 26-02-2007, 07:21 PM

I'm still waiting to hear what a stage 2 auto is. Shift kit I presume? I've never heard of a stage 1. They all seem to be stage 2.

Also, the VN is either clapped or he can't drive.

mcflux · 26-02-2007, 07:42 PM

I second robbo.

Oh, and I beat a camira (1.8 auto) with my windsor, but I drove all the way to Willowbank to prove it.

Great thread! Wish I started it.

GTS_300_Coupe · 26-02-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

BTW Caspers AUXR6 has beaten a VRSS. At Heathcote.

Serious?
What kind of mods under the bonnet? Manual too I guess.

:

Laminge · 26-02-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Serious?
What kind of mods under the bonnet? Manual too I guess.

:

It is auto.

Have a look around at www.aufalcon.com

Zedjay · 26-02-2007, 09:01 PM

i have owned a 1990 VN Calais 5ltr when new(showing my age now hey)

and a EB11 farmont 5ltr from near new back in 93 and as much as love my fords ive gotta say the VN had more go..... and not just a bit

1TUFFUTE · 26-02-2007, 09:06 PM

meh...i dusted a BA xr8ute the other night and an au xr8sedan. But ive also been beat by a toyota hiace with a commie engine...but who really cares. The possabilities are endless. An by the way, if your racing on the streets u are seriously risking yours an others lives.

:

Gobes32 · 26-02-2007, 10:22 PM

I am a huge e series v8 fan but the holden motor shits all over the windsor. To beat a VN SS with a high stall and shift kit you must have a pretty modded EB? Not saying the VN is a good car but i know first hand the potential they have.

Powdered Toast Man · 26-02-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

I'm still waiting to hear what a stage 2 auto is. Shift kit I presume? I've never heard of a stage 1. They all seem to be stage 2.

Stage 1 would be standard factory you would guess. Stage 2 is what condition its in after the ****** owner has punished it.

:

Yeah, I blew away an integra today. Too bad he wasnt trying. :king:
But seriously, leave the racing for the track. Too many factors to consider in traffic light drags, including trying not to kill other road users.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Wanna hope no one calls the RSPCA on ya for punching them cats..

Why cant people just kick their cats like they used to? You wont get scratched, plus they fly further.

INDEEP · 26-02-2007, 11:10 PM

Firstly, I also think this thread sucks balls!

But I have driven both the 5L Windsor and the banana injected 308 multiple times, I must say I find the General's version a nicer package. Feels quicker too, but I've never seen, or ran them under a timed situation to see which is actually superior.

I'm with XR8fella to an extent on the sound tho, but I was thinking more VH-K series that had the drainpipe exhaust...

If you want out and out proof of the true potential of the 5L Holden, take a walk around the finals of any series dyno comp. It's almost guaranteed there will be a HUGE HP twin snail/blown 308 there... (And nearly never a 5L ford worth speaking of)

Just my $0.02 worth...

XR8-260 · 26-02-2007, 11:16 PM

Stock VN 5Ls are not fast for V8s (around the mid-high fifteens for the 1/4). There is potential though. With a few mods they can be made to be very quick. In the wheels comparison back in the early 90s, the XR8 (165kw) beat the VN SS in the 1/4 mile acceleration test despite being a lot heavier. I think this was because it had a shorter final drive ratio than the VN.

jarridtheruler · 26-02-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3

Stock VN 5Ls are not fast for V8s (around the mid-high fifteens for the 1/4). There is potential though. With a few mods they can be made to be very quick. In the wheels comparison back in the early 90s, the XR8 (165kw) beat the VN SS in the 1/4 mile acceleration test despite being a lot heavier. I think this was because it had a shorter final drive ratio than the VN.

I thought v8 vn's were quicker than that. My best time in my ba6 is 15.61, and the vn v8's beat me easily

Grechie · 26-02-2007, 11:45 PM

well the 185kw VS clubsport only runs 14.9, so i would imagine the VN SS runs similar?

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...nt=yerbaby.flv

EB Pete · 26-02-2007, 11:53 PM

i'm actually driving a VN SS 5 spd at the moment, and it's not bad. never driven a ford with a 8 in it though. anyway my eb with the auto beat the ss, but then with the manual he beat me. VN SS 5spd ran a 9.7 1/8th, mine ran a 9.9 1/8th with the manual.

Gobes32 · 26-02-2007, 11:53 PM

Stock, a holden is average but there is a massive after market for the generals v8 and it don't cost much to find their true potential. Despite having said that i would own a 5 litre EL Fairmont over a 5 litre VS Calais just because it is a Ford :jab:

That is the thing about V8's...... It is the heart over the head every time.

LUXO_8 · 26-02-2007, 11:58 PM

to get either to have any performance worth speaking of, IMO you need to build a stroker or add boost, or both....

stock, they're nothing short of pathettic for V8's

Quote:

Originally Posted by acosta32

Stock, a holden is average but there is a massive after market for the generals v8 and it don't cost much to find their true potential. :jab:

there is a MASSIVE aftermarket support for the windsors...they've been around since the 60's..... they're completley nutted out, so many different combos to choose from....
why on earth ford decided to put E7 heads on the EB on engines i have no idea....... they could easily have released them with GT40 heads and 185kw to start with......

they just cost a lot of $$.......... but you can just about build anything you want...

philstoj · 27-02-2007, 12:09 AM

The holden V8's arent that bad, they are only 8:1 comp, and run way less timing..
The intakes arent too good for high rpm, and the cams are tiny aswell.
heads are heaps better than windsor, and with a cam, tune and a good set of extractors and exhaust, they open up quite a bit.
Seen quite a few stroker ones with a decent cam (355, street roller) standard intake, mild touchup of the heads pump out 300 hp at the wheels with a sheet load of torque.
Theres a very nice VH SLE wagon running around campbellfield with a tough 383 efi headed holden motor that runs low 11's, full street trim with street tyres.

XR8-260 · 27-02-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarridtheruler

I thought v8 vn's were quicker than that. My best time in my ba6 is 15.61, and the vn v8's beat me easily

The VN SS 165kw 5spd manual ran a 15.9 in the Aug '91 road test (wheels). I think they ran with 2 people board though. I don't think that the wheels drivers are very good either. Even then 15.9 is pretty slow for a 1360kg 165kw car.

The VNs that beat you were probably modified.

Gobes32 · 27-02-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MADNC_8

there is a MASSIVE aftermarket support for the windsors...they've been around since the 60's..... they're completley nutted out, so many different combos to choose from....

they just cost a lot of $$.......... but you can just about build anything you want...

Pardon my ignorance, what i mean is its very easy and cheap to extract ponies from the holden whereas the windsor can get pretty expensive.

LUXO_8 · 27-02-2007, 12:19 AM

yeah i know.......i was just expanding on that point.......i wasnt having a shot at you at all mate

the windsors have so much more aftermarket suport than the 308's, its just that that aftermarket suport isnt in this country:S

SPK-250 · 27-02-2007, 01:47 AM

I drive an auto fully optioned VN SS everyday and it is a choice car, or else we wouldn't have it. It is dead stock, even down to the oil leak and has run 14.9 at the drags and 14.6 with the headlight out and the missus driving it's actually her car. We can also get 600+ kms out of the tank when going long distance.

The heads are great design, something like 410 hp out the box. The big problem is that manifold, same as the windsors i guess. With just under .500 lift on the cam, rollers, a 2500-2700 converter, 3.45+ gears, twin 2.5 pipes and 1 5/8 extractors these things will run flat 13's all day. Not awe inspiring but good for someone looking to get into drag racing/car modifying or your girlfriend.

Adding forced induction is the way to really wake them up. Because they run 8.8:1 comp they accept up to 12 psi no worries. There was a VP SS at the drags here that had just a STA blower on it putting in 10 psi and no other mods that runs 12.6 @ 112.

GXL078 · 27-02-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Wanna hope no one calls the RSPCA on ya for punching them cats..

You beat me to it, I was gonna say that.
Surely there must be heaps more choice for manifolds etc for a Windsor over a Holden 308, which is unique to Australia?

INDEEP · 27-02-2007, 01:03 PM

There's plenty of mention of how cheap it is to do up a 308 here... How many of you have actually done this?! There is a very specific reason why so many old Holden's run Chevs, and not a lot of it has to do with the range of parts available...

Holden's aren't cheap to build. Period.

atec77 · 27-02-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2tufracing

hey guys im sure every one has a mate with a holden injected 5L (VN,VP,VR,VS,VT). most of my mates have them and a couple are quick but most are stock. my eb 5lt is stock with a CAI, 3.45's and punched cats. has anybody took notice of how they go against holden 5lt in ford 5lts i have beaten a VP SS with a stage 2 auto and cat back exhaust and beaten a VN SS with stage 2 auto, 3g stall, 3.9s and cat back exhaust. but ive also been beaten by other ones. who is beating them who isnt?

In std trim the 308 tends to be a little quickly on the 1/4 BUT a windsor makes better mid range where you drive it every day and certainly is a better motor for distance due to the ecellent passing in traffic , the windsor also will make a lot more grunt than the plastic with smallish $ injections which is why so many holdens ran chevs ,

Cooper69S · 27-02-2007, 03:48 PM

weren't all the 5L holdens since the VN 304's rather than 308's?

paulie0735 · 27-02-2007, 04:06 PM

There must be a million pages of road tests out there comparing the 5.0 XR8 and SS over the years....... in the early days without exception the SS was spanking the XR8. Order some back issues of Modern Motor or Wheels, read a little history. The early SS 5.0lt Holden's were always faster, and the XR8 was always the better car.