Extractors with standard exhaust?

webbiegareth · 21-03-2012, 09:28 AM

Hi all,

I need a complete exhaust system for my girlfriend's car - manifold, cat and cat-back (it's leaking all over the place). It needs to be quiet as I want to pass a roadworthy it it, and it doesn't really need to be for performance.

But if I can get the go-fast bits for the same price as the stock bits, I will.

I've picked up a set of pacemaker 4499's for a hundred bucks, I was going to get a 2nd hand standard manifold for $50 - $80 anyway so I figured why not.

For the cat... I'm having trouble even finding a standard cat for a decent price, those "Venom" brand hi-flow cats are just as cheap it seems! I was thinking of buying the 200CPSI version (i.e. not the higher flowing 100CPSI one) since it SHOULD be quieter. Or maybe the 400CPSI version? They're not really high flowing anymore, but at that CPSI are the still better than the stock standard ceramics? They're about $180.

I almost bought a cheap catback system from this site a while ago, but due to unexpected circumstances (family member falling ill), I had to travel quickly and was offline for a long while. :(

I'm back though

I'm having trouble with finding a decent cheap cat-back system. A Redback system with the twin mufflers and what looks like a small resonator is around $320 on Ebay. People often talk about catbacks on ebay for <$200, but those seem to be the straight-through system which I'm not interested in (no way would it pass a roadworthy). I'm hoping the two muffler with rear resonator is what I need.

So, unless I can find a 2.5" catback system that's cheap AND quiet, I'm looking at putting another stock system back on. I can get a 2nd hand but almost new standard catback exhaust for $50.

Would it be possible to join the 4499's, a high flow exhaust and a standard catback system together? Will it perform better than a standard stock system, or would mixing parts like this ruin performance and economy?

**auIILTD** · 22-03-2012, 11:03 AM

Hi Webbie.

400 CPSI is the same as stock, so even 200 cpsi are a bit louder, but shouildn't be unroadworthy.

As far as a catback is concerned, send Justin at Tuff Car Parts a PM (Username Private 9). He has sold quite a few Redback systems to members on here. He provides discount to AFF members as he is a site sponsor.

Hope that helps
Stu

Day-mow · 23-03-2012, 09:37 PM

a good exhaust shop can make ANY exhaust combination work. i my self for a while had 4499 headers. standard cat and standard cat back exhaust.

i have a kenobi 100 cell cat and it does make it quite raspy and a bit loud. i'd suggest stick with the 200 as it helps dull things down a bit. but while doing this make sure that you get metalcore if funds allow as they last a bit longer.

i believe. could be wrong though. that headers and a good cat should give improvements to performance and should assist economy. standard exhaust is 2.25" so it's still going to flow alright. obviously the up grade is 2.5". i at the moment have a single lukey race muffler and a Resi and i pulled 88 Db (SA standard is 90Db) so im not sure if double muffler is totally necessarily. obviously all up to you though.

hope this has answered some of your questions.

webbiegareth · 28-03-2012, 12:10 PM

Well I called up True Flow Exhaust in Melton (VIC), which seems to get a good rap around here.

The quote they offered was a bit higher than I was expecting, perhaps that was because of the extra work involved fitting the extractors, and the fact I want the dual muffler setup.

(Most people say they were charged $290 for the redback 2.5" catback with single muffler and rear resonator).

In my case they quoted $700 for installation of the 4499's, a 200CPSI metal cat, and the 2.5" redback catback with two mufflers, all installed.

Is that reasonable or a bit more than I should be paying?

robbyj · 28-03-2012, 12:23 PM

id probably be looking for another quote

webbiegareth · 28-03-2012, 12:38 PM

To be honest I was expecting a quote of around $600 MAX... I've seen a few threads around the forums with people saying that particular place in Melton is really cheap and recommended, but their quote was a bit more than I was expecting. :(

(And just to make it clearer from my other post since I can no longer edit it... the $700 was for installation of my own 4499's, and for them to provide the 200CPSI metal cat and 2.5" redback exhaust with two mufflers and for them to install it all).

I can buy a 2.5" catback with two mufflers for around $330, then $180 for a metal cat... so that's $510 for the kit, then it needs to be installed.

**auIILTD** · 28-03-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webbiegareth

I can buy a 2.5" catback with two mufflers for around $330, then $180 for a metal cat... so that's $510 for the kit, then it needs to be installed.

Hence I would have thought that a quote of $700 is acceptable?

webbiegareth · 28-03-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auIILTD

Hence I would have thought that a quote of $700 is acceptable?

Maybe? That's what I'm not sure of. I heard the live axle setup makes it real easy to install.

See... here's the thing. You can buy a redback catback exhaust (single muffler with resonator) for around $270 or whatever on Ebay. Of course you'd then have to pay extra to have it fitted, or do it yourself.

People have been saying on the forums they can get that same kit INSTALLED from that place for around $290 - $330. So that basically means they're probably getting the kit cheaper and because of that the price (including installation) isn't much more than the bare kit off ebay.

That's why I was expecting a cheaper quote than $700 - I figured because they get their parts cheaper etc that the overall cost would be cheaper.

If that makes sense?

I'm happy to pay it though if people think it's a good price and I'm not being ripped off for what I'm asking. It's not my car (it's my girlfriends) so I don't want to spend too much.

(I haven't yet contacted Tuff Car Parts yet but will do so soon to get a quote, then find out how much it'd cost to have it all installed).

blueoval · 28-03-2012, 12:51 PM

I would always get a second quote to compare as a minimum, that way you can be sure the prices are not inflated one way or another.

At the end of the day, you pay for the labor to fit and warranty the parts fitted. Buying online you save more, but should something go wrong, it's up to you to remove the part and send it back for a replacement.

If time is an issue for you, consider paying the higher price that way you know where to go back if something happens.

If you have time, are handy with a spanner but cash poor, then consider the online option.

As for flow, extractors, 200cpsi cat on a standard 2.25" system will flow better than stock manifold, but not as good as a 2.5" cat back with it.

I have pacemaker 4480 headers, 400cpsi metal cat, a 2.5" mandrel bent redback system, with hot dog, straight thru offset muffler and a resi in the tail pipe and its barely noticeable that I have a better flowing system at all. Sounds only slightly louder than stock (kind of like a mild sports system). Pretty quiet by modders standards. Flows well down low. Will pass a Db test, and I run a s/c engine through it!

webbiegareth · 28-03-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

I have pacemaker 4480 headers, 400cpsi metal cat, a 2.5" mandrel bent redback system, with hot dog, straight thru offset muffler and a resi in the tail pipe and its barely noticeable that I have a better flowing system at all. Sounds only slightly louder than stock (kind of like a mild sports system). Pretty quiet by modders standards. Flows well down low. Will pass a Db test, and I run a s/c engine through it!

Your setup is basically what I'm after then, but with the 4499 headers as that what I already have sitting the garage waiting for installation.

To be honest I'd prefer the 400CPSI metal cat (to avoid RWC issues)... when I ring around more I'll see who can provide them. Can you explain your catback system a little more though? I don't know enough about exhaust systems yet :(

So it has one muffler (straight through), one hot dog and one rear resonator? I thought the hot dog sits at the rear as well... I guess I'm way off.

One of the main reasons I was looking at True Flow Exhaust in Melton, besides the fact other forum members recommend them as being cheap, is because I actually live in the same suburb.

Perhaps the quote is OK when I consider the warranty.

**auIILTD** · 28-03-2012, 01:11 PM

I think that you may be correct Gareth. To put it in perspective, I went to an exhaust shop got a Redback catback system only (no headers or cats installed) and that nearly cost me $1K (with $100 tips). But that is Canberra, a lot dearer up here. $700 for what you want done, is cheap (to my reckoning anyway).

Good luck
Stu

blueoval · 28-03-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webbiegareth

Your setup is basically what I'm after then, but with the 4499 headers as that what I already have sitting the garage waiting for installation.

To be honest I'd prefer the 400CPSI metal cat (to avoid RWC issues)... when I ring around more I'll see who can provide them. Can you explain your catback system a little more though? I don't know enough about exhaust systems yet :(

So it has one muffler (straight through), one hot dog and one rear resonator? I thought the hot dog sits at the rear as well... I guess I'm way off.

One of the main reasons I was looking at True Flow Exhaust in Melton, besides the fact other forum members recommend them as being cheap, is because I actually live in the same suburb.

Perhaps the quote is OK when I consider the warranty.

The hot dog sits straight after the cat, then pipe work goes to the muffler which is a 'straight thru' flowing design but with no internal baffles. (Baffles tone down noise but restrict flow). The offset part of that muffler means that there is a mild bend in the muffler itself to reduce noise NOT FLOW instead of it going all straight thru to the other side if it was a straight internal design.

There is also a small resinator over the diff in the tail pipe section that also reduces more noise but is small enough not to restrict too much power.

I went a mandrel bent system also which means that at each bend the diameter size of the pipe remains the same instead of a press bend you would normally see with standard systems. (press bends reduce the size diameter of the pipe due to the bending machine pushing against the pipe to get the required bend). Mandrel bends offer a bit better flow and are not much more expensive than press bent types.

The 4499's you have now will be fine with a system similar to what I have. You could get away with a 200cpsi cat as well. But the Db will be a bit louder than a 400cpsi.

Hope that helps.

Day-mow · 28-03-2012, 01:51 PM

Fitting a cat back you can do your self it's easy. Headers are easy to fit but welding cats is gay. Best to pay someone and also remember maybe if they're cheap as are you getting quality welds. It's important.

webbiegareth · 28-03-2012, 02:51 PM

Nah it's definitely something I'd get a professional to do.

Anyone done the "provide your own exhaust" to a fitter and have it all fitted? If so, what's a decent price I'd be looking at for installation?

blueoval · 28-03-2012, 04:00 PM

Well, be prepared to be stung a bit more for supplying your own exhaust. Exhaust mobs generally make a bit of a mark up for their systems when you order thru them. This also covers them for any faults of the system itself should there be any weld issues or other issues with the parts.

If you can get it all fitted for about $150-180, I think that is a fair price. But you may want to shop around to see who would be willing to do it, and for how much. You could also ask if they will accept a 'cash' price and see if that will sway them to lower the price more.

webbiegareth · 28-03-2012, 04:09 PM

In that case the $700 quote is looking a bit better, considering it'd cost be a tad over $510 or so to buy the parts by themselves. I'll go check them out in person, and see if they have any other options for cats (besides the 200CPSI metal ones, I'm more interested in the 300/400 models mainly for quietness and you RWC inspectors in Vic can be really picky).

blueoval · 28-03-2012, 04:13 PM

I still recommend ringing around a few other exhaust mobs to see if they will fit it and how much for, just so you get a real picture of what to expect. Yes, it does sound like that $700 deal is looking better. But it still doesn't hurt to inquire.

Day-mow · 28-03-2012, 07:27 PM

My exhaust was.
4499's-$550 fitted.
100cell cat- $215 supply
2.5" s/s exhaust single lukey race muffler and fitting of cat $550
Resi fitted- $100

700 is pretty decent

Giant · 28-03-2012, 07:50 PM

Got my parts extractors off Justin Tuff Car Parts one of my sponsors, $100 for a cat and back XR6T system and cost $275 to have it all fitted. Most of the exhaust shops I went to did not want to do it as they hadnt sold me any parts one place quoted near $800.

If its just for roadworthy your wasting your money trying to fit extractors, high flow cats etc. Just bolt on a cat back system and replace the flange gaskets from the headers to the cat should fix the leaks and its all done for around $300 plus, can also chase wreckers for stock cat etc.

Its your GF car so save money for your car haha.

webbiegareth · 28-03-2012, 10:17 PM

To be honest I've been thinking about doing swaps with the girlfriend - putting her AU onto gas and having it as my daily driver (I do 500-700km's a week minimum), and she'll take my car (she doesn't drive much).

I've got a 2002 VXII Commodore, it's got 270,000km's on the clock - it's a good car but I'm looking at replacing it with a newer car (maybe FG MKII XR6 or FG XR6T).

So that's why I'm looking at putting a more decent exhaust on it - 700 for a decent exhaust compared to 300 for a stock exhaust isn't THAT much more. I want the car to basically last for a long time yet.

Anyway, I dropped by True Flow Exhausts in Melton on the way home, and asked about what cats they had available (they seem to stock Redback ones mainly). They said they'd never heard of the 300CPSI model, and they rang their distributor who said they old only 100, 200 and 400CPSI models.

I'm confused then, what is this?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-BA-E...item1e6be1f2e0

It says it's model "CAT004M"...

I can't seem to find much else about it though, so I'm VERY confused. Anyone have any ideas?

The guy at the shop was very insistent on the 200CPSI model and didn't think the 400CPSI was worth it.

blueoval · 28-03-2012, 10:49 PM

I have never heard of a 300 cpsi one either. go the 200. It will have better flow and won't be that loud. make sure its metal core though.

webbiegareth · 29-03-2012, 03:06 PM

Spoke with Redback myself.... and sorted out the confusion

The ebay model number for the 300CPSI one is "CAT004M", and redback confirmed that one is 300CPSI and it does exist.

Gave True Flow a call, told them it did exist and was CAT004M, and they said they have that in stock but thought it was 200CPSI. So I'm getting it installed next Thursday

blueoval · 29-03-2012, 03:20 PM

Oh good work, hope it works out for you. Interesting to hear there is such a thing as a 300cpsi unit. Cheers

webbiegareth · 29-03-2012, 03:32 PM

Yeah there's definitely some confusion around, their own distributor said they only sold 100, 200 and 400CPSI units over the phone (I could hear the conversation). The guy was very friendly, even took me into their workshop and showed me their different range of cats, even showing me their insides - very thorough! I noted on their box they use "proex" cats, which is one of Radbacks makes (they use cateran and proex), so I called up proex's main line and the guy looked for CAT004M in their system and said that yep it's 300CPSI.