Enemy within stalks Commodore

[csv8]

Enemy within stalks Commodore
BRUCE NEWTON
January 24, 2010
The Opel Insignia

The Opel Insignia

Holden's Commodore could face an enemy from within when the drab Korean-sourced Epica mid-size sedan is replaced in 2012.

Drive has learned exclusively that the Epica replacement, codenamed V300 within General Motors, will share underpinnings with the Chevrolet Malibu, which is being developed in Detroit.

Both cars will be built from the same platform as the award-winning Opel Insignia mid-size sedan (pictured).

The Holden version will be built in Korea by GM Daewoo and differ only in styling detail; the Australian version will get a unique Holden front end, as the Epica does now.

The Malibu is a big car — the current generation measures nearly 4.9 metres long — that encroaches on Commodore territory in the same way the latest Ford Mondeo sits close to the Blue Oval's locally built large car, the Falcon.

The flexibility of the Insignia platform means the V300 could come to Australia with the choice of four or six-cylinder engines; petrol, diesel or even plug-in hybrid; and front- or all-wheel drive.

Holden chairman and managing director Alan Batey confirmed Holden had started product planning for the V300 and was conscious of maintaining separation with Commodore.

"We will position V300 to make sure it has got a very compelling customer offering, whether that's from technology, powertrains and positioning, so we don't sit a large medium-sized car on top of a large car," Mr Batey said.

"We need to be really careful. The two things that really differentiate [V300 and Commodore] are it's a front-wheel-drive car versus a rear-wheel-drive car and, secondly, the powertrain opportunities V300 provides."

That means diesel — already offered with the Epica (and Cruze small car) — and, potentially, a hybrid. Neither option is expected for Commodore before the middle of the next decade.

"You can't dismiss those things," Mr Batey said. "With fuel at $1.20 it looks OK; if fuel peaks at $2.50 then you are at a different place again, particularly from a fleet perspective. So we need to keep our options open."
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[FPV8U]

Still not quite the doomsday article we copped about the falcon..

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Still not quite the doomsday article we copped about the falcon..

Reasonably balanced article. Which is as you point out, certainly not what was put out - undeservedly - there for Ford.

The Insignia looks a nice car. But again, it's not a lightweight.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Still not quite the doomsday article we copped about the falcon..

you expected fairness?? LOL

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Still not quite the doomsday article we copped about the falcon..

It was more the headline to make you read the article.

[jpd80]

An internal rival to the mighty Commodore...Wow!

Ford will have an EB I-4 Falcon to challenge and beat it? priceless....

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Reasonably balanced article. Which is as you point out, certainly not what was put out - undeservedly - there for Ford.

The Insignia looks a nice car. But again, it's not a lightweight.

That was because it was bruce newton....a pretty respected (be it harsh) freelance journo. He writes for a few different outfit but mainly the herald sun (i think) that is affiliated with drive.com. He is not a 'drive' website reporter per se...hence the basic decency.

As for the car itself, it is not, to my knowledge, an opel insignia. Certainly not rebadged but a different car built on the same platform. At this early stage there is no real specification in terms of engines, suspensions etc. 2012 is telling though...the epica is dead in the water and while the cruze could be seen as medium sized (in sedan form) i suppose it doesn't really have the quality to get within cooee of mondeo/accord euro/mazda 6 now does it.

Oh, and as we all know (but is not widely reported) the aussie built cruze sedan/hatchback is pushed back to next year now and the jury is fully out on whether it will have any sufficient changes to equal the class leader or be built at all for that matter..... Yeah fun times at GM-H. By the time this car arrives ford will have not only updated the current mondeo with ecoboost engines they may be not far from launching an all new model (with global platform sharing with fusion etc.). Cruze won't get here till just before 2011 focus....which will rip it a new one well and truly......

[uranium_death]

Drive is affiliated with The Age. It is a supplement every Saturday.

I generally do not mind it....I prefer it over Carsguide when it comes to car reviews because they seem a little more considered. Carsguide is just terrible.

The car looks okay. The diesel option may be a winner.

[Brazen]

Pfffft this is a nothing story, its much more of a beat-up than the Falcon FWD story. With the Falcon, Ford management have been the one raising the doubts, whereas in this story these rumours have been created out of nothing.

There has always existed a midsized FWD GM vehicle, ie Holden Camira, Holden Apollo, Holden Vectra, Holden Epica alongside the Commodore. This is nothing new, to suggest that the Commodore is under threat is a bit of a stretch especially considering its the number 1 seller in Australia, has markets in the middle east, is about to have a billion dollar export to the US in the form of a police car, is being considered as high performance Chevy also in the US, and has powerful stateside allies in the form of Vice President Bob Lutz and head of North American Product Mark Reuss.

Honestly the Mondeo has more of a chance in replacing the Falcon than the Insignia has in replacing the Commodore.

[Chilliman]

The real enemy within for Commodore is the Cruze!

[GT69]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Pfffft this is a nothing story, its much more of a beat-up than the Falcon FWD story. With the Falcon, Ford management have been the one raising the doubts, whereas in this story these rumours have been created out of nothing.

There has always existed a midsized FWD GM vehicle, ie Holden Camira, Holden Apollo, Holden Vectra, Holden Epica alongside the Commodore. This is nothing new, to suggest that the Commodore is under threat is a bit of a stretch especially considering its the number 1 seller in Australia, has markets in the middle east, is about to have a billion dollar export to the US in the form of a police car, is being considered as high performance Chevy also in the US, and has powerful stateside allies in the form of Vice President Bob Lutz and head of North American Product Mark Reuss.

Honestly the Mondeo has more of a chance in replacing the Falcon than the Insignia has in replacing the Commodore.

lol. hook, line and sinker.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Pfffft this is a nothing story, its much more of a beat-up than the Falcon FWD story. With the Falcon, Ford management have been the one raising the doubts, whereas in this story these rumours have been created out of nothing.

There has always existed a midsized FWD GM vehicle, ie Holden Camira, Holden Apollo, Holden Vectra, Holden Epica alongside the Commodore. This is nothing new, to suggest that the Commodore is under threat is a bit of a stretch especially considering its the number 1 seller in Australia, has markets in the middle east, is about to have a billion dollar export to the US in the form of a police car, is being considered as high performance Chevy also in the US, and has powerful stateside allies in the form of Vice President Bob Lutz and head of North American Product Mark Reuss.

Honestly the Mondeo has more of a chance in replacing the Falcon than the Insignia has in replacing the Commodore.

Apart from being number one in Aust (and not that profitable) the rest is a bunch of might be happenings all spruked by BLutz himself, I am sure GM a really keeping their cards close to their chest.

[Chilliman]

I wonder if this story has anything to do with a story about 6 months ago stating that Holden & Buick were working on a large FWD platform that could replace Zeta after 2018? I'll try to dig up the article.

[Nikked]

I thought the epica was being replaced buy the cruze?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

The real enemy within for Commodore is the Cruze!

Exactly.

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I wonder if this story has anything to do with a story about 6 months ago stating that Holden & Buick were working on a large FWD platform that could replace Zeta after 2018? I'll try to dig up the article.

Super Epsilon to Underpin Next Holden Statesman?

July 9, 2009
In the last couple of days new information has surfaced from GMInsidenews sources regarding this supposed "Super Epsilon" vehicle architecture that is under development at General Motors. Spy shots of, what looks like a Buick, have been spotted various times in Australia registered to GM Holden. It has long been assumed by members of the media that the Buick-looking car was a test mule for Super Epsilon. As it turns out, GMI has heard that Holden is working on it because they may very well end up using the platform for themselves.

One of the pillars of the Epsilon II architecture is flexibility. Supposedly any plant in the world that is tooled for any Epsilon II vehicle, on any length, can build any other Epsilon II product in the matter of weeks after the decision. In addition, Epsilon II is very flexible within it's own sizing. Initially there was going to be two lengths of the Epsilon II platform, a "short" and a "long" version. The "short" version is the one we saw first as the Opel Insignia and Buick Regal (China) ride on what GM calls the "short" Epsilon II. The long Epsilon II platform is on the market now as well as the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. The Insignia is 190 inches in length, while the LaCrosse comes in at 197 inches long. The upcoming Chevrolet Epica and subsequent Daewoo models will be riding on the short Epsilon II, while the next-generation Chevrolet Malibu is slated for long Epsilon II.

Several months ago another variant of Epsilon II came into the mix, the Super Epsilon. Media outlets have reported that Super Epsilon is wider and longer than "long" Epsilon II and is being developed for use at GM Holden in Australia. GMI sources are now saying that GM Holden is working on the platform because it is the possible replacement for the Holden Statesman/Caprice, which is a large sedan on the rear-wheel drive Zeta platform. The Statesman/Caprice is also badged as the Chevrolet Caprice in the Middle East markets and the Buick Park Avenue in China. GMI was able to confirm that if the Statesman ends up on Super Epsilon, it would continue the tradition by being the Buick Park Avenue in China and North America, as well as the Caprice in the Middle East.

The current Statesman/Caprice is 203 inches long, meaning Super Epsilon will have to be about six inches longer than "long" Epsilon II. At the current time it is believed that Super Epsilon is front-wheel drive based with available all-wheel drive.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...atesman-81570/

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I wonder if this story has anything to do with a story about 6 months ago stating that Holden & Buick were working on a large FWD platform that could replace Zeta after 2018? I'll try to dig up the article.

Was that Super Epsilon II???

Commodore is dead. I'll drink a frothy glass of my own pee if GM let Holden have another Zeta type platform outing.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by CoupeXB

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...atesman-81570/

Thanks CoupeXB, that was the article.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Was that Super Epsilon II???

Commodore is dead. I'll drink a frothy glass of my own pee if GM let Holden have another Zeta type platform outing.

Yeah Super Epilepsy. Quick someone call Jizz Spanks - 'The Commodore is DEAD!"

[mrbaxr6t]

watching Holden release cars that compete against each other in the marketplace is nothing new they have been cannabalizing sales from themselves for as long as I can remember, they seem to respond to every numb nuts when they say something like "I want a twincab holden ute" "I want a 2 door commodore" that is the exact type of thinking that lead GMC to where they are today.....

[DoreSlamR]

This article made me realise Holden's love of cheap nasty Asian built cars

Barina - Korea
Cruze - Korea
Epica - Korea
Captiva - Korea
Colorado - Thailand
Combo - Korea?
Commodore - Australia

Where as Ford's only Asian car is the Ranger.

I wonder how many of your average car buyer even realises that...

[Sprint XR8]

[

B]Buick Future Car Plans[/B]

July, 2009 / By Todd Lassa

For the coming decade, North American Buicks look to be front-drive based, sharing platforms with Chevrolet and Opel. From top to bottom, here's how it's shaping up.
2012 Lucerne Replacement
The 2010 model year will be Lucerne's last. Model year '11 will be an "interim" drop, with a replacement appearing for '12 on a new, large "Super" Epsilon front-wheel-drive platform GM Australia is developing to complement its heavy, rear-drive Zeta architecture. Australian Epsilon is wider and longer than the Epsilon II platform. The Zeta VE architecture -- Holden Commodore and ex-Pontiac G8 -- could carry through two more iterations. Australian Epsilon will cannibalize Commodore sales, but at least Holden can hold off Toyota with the new, large platform, which will likely be a 4WD car in Australia -- Holden reportedly wants to hedge its bets against losing the RWD performance and towing capacity that Commodore has.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...sse_regal.html

[Chilliman]

The Zeta VE architecture -- Holden Commodore and ex-Pontiac G8 -- could carry through two more iterations. Australian Epsilon will cannibalize Commodore sales, but at least Holden can hold off Toyota with the new, large platform, which will likely be a 4WD car in Australia -- Holden reportedly wants to hedge its bets against losing the RWD performance and towing capacity that Commodore has.

Two more iterations? That would be 4 years per iteration? Making it 2018 as curtains for Zeta? Tell me if I'm off track.....

[TUF_302]

Its just an over weight Korean built Daewoo, i cant see it helping any, and i really cant see it upsetting the Commodore much

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by TUF_302

Its just an over weight Korean built Daewoo, i cant see it helping any, and i really cant see it upsetting the Commodore much

Not unless an over weight Korean built FWD Daewoo ends up replacing the RWD Zeta platform - which unless GM starts making some real money soon will become a stronger possibilty with every passing day.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by TUF_302

Its just an over weight Korean built Daewoo, i cant see it helping any, and i really cant see it upsetting the Commodore much

With dismal performance, indecisive auto, no real styling update, & a dearer price than S1 VE, Commodore is upsetting Commodore let alone a Korean Holden knock off doing the job.

[Road_Warrior]

Holden and Commodore's biggest threat isn't poxy FWD Korean made econoboxes, but manufacture of Zeta cars in China and Korea. LWB Zeta variants are already 'assembled' in CKD form in China (Buick Park Avenue) and Korea (Daewoo somethingorother). Sooner or later Detroit are going to say: "hang on, why are we paying through the nose to make Zeta cars in Australia for such a small market when we can build them in volumes offshore for half the price?"