Working out on road costs - new car

[XR4568]

Hi all,

I know i should know this, but I keep forgetting...

My old man works for Ford so I am thinking of using the employee discount and getting either a new upcoming Focus XR5 or an FG Falcon XR6 (maybe Turbo).

Can anyone tell me how you work out the on road costs for a new car? Rego, stamp duty etc.

Also, is $1495 the standard (and bullcr*p) dealer delivery fee?

Just trying to work out an accurate price thats all.

Any assistance would be great...

[hy_boi]

Stamp duty is different in every state.

eg qld: hybrid = 2% 4cy = 3% 5-6cy = 3.5% 7-8cy+ = 4% calculated on the RRP not the discounted.

Same with rego different for number of cylinders.

Dealer delivery fee isn't that bullcrap. It pays the mech for fitting and predelivering the car, eg fuel ain't free, also pays the admin ladies who do all ya rego crap, and ya transport fee, which can sometimes be up to $500 on car depending on where its coming from.

[XR4568]

Thanks hy_boi

I personally would prefer the industry move to drive away pricing to make it easier to compare apples to apples. Ecery car can have a RRP as it does now but dealers can then only advertise drive away prices. Simple and easy.

Still think $1495 is steep. Admin costs should be built in to the margin. $1495 is nothing but a very think layer of cream on top

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by XR4568

Hi all,


Also, is $1495 the standard (and bullcr*p) dealer delivery fee?

You should wish that it is only that price dealer delivery fee on the new FG is $1995 and the same price in every state.

[XR4568]

Oh FFS...

[The G6ET Spot]

Scary isn't it?

[XR4568]

Ridiculous too...

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by XR4568

Thanks hy_boi

I personally would prefer the industry move to drive away pricing to make it easier to compare apples to apples. Ecery car can have a RRP as it does now but dealers can then only advertise drive away prices. Simple and easy.

Still think $1495 is steep. Admin costs should be built in to the margin. $1495 is nothing but a very think layer of cream on top

Buy a VW, it's minimum $3000. However, the car is shipped in from OS.

[gz1]

Originally Posted by hy_boi

Dealer delivery fee isn't that bullcrap. It pays the mech for fitting and predelivering the car, eg fuel ain't free, also pays the admin ladies who do all ya rego crap, and ya transport fee, which can sometimes be up to $500 on car depending on where its coming from.

Sorry to disagree Hy_Boi but in my opinion dealer delivery is bull crap and a total rip-off. It would not be if the dealers actually did something for that charge, however not one person to date has been able to justify what is done to warrant that charge. Even if the rate was $500.00/Hr would still be hard to justify, especially since more often than not absolutely nothing is done for the PD. See thread here for a more complete discussion: http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=9295

[Pinch]

Negotiate on the dealer delivery fee. I paid $700 for my BA XR6 (mind you they did very little to earn it). I didn't even get charged $1500 for the (BMW) Mini and they did deserve every cent. Subaru was drive away but I got heaps of free stuff as well.

Trick is to go fleet if you can, even those private fleet buyers. Especially if you aren't using the discount. I would check the discount against a private fleet price anyway to make sure you are getting the best deal. Don't forget buying services you may have through your union (union shopper etc) or motoring organisation if a member.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by gz1

Sorry to disagree Hy_Boi but in my opinion dealer delivery is bull crap and a total rip-off. It would not be if the dealers actually did something for that charge, however not one person to date has been able to justify what is done to warrant that charge. Even if the rate was $500.00/Hr would still be hard to justify, especially since more often than not absolutely nothing is done for the PD. See thread here for a more complete discussion: http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=9295

I thought RATT had a pretty good crack at it.

I don't think I would have been too impressed in your situation either. My car is due at the end of May and the standard dealer delivery on it is $3500. Thankfully I get a discount through the company I work for which knocked it down to $900. (as well as 10% discount off RRP)

When done correctly and with care, I believe it is worth at least some of the cost that's being asked. Anything can happen to your car on the back of a truck and the dealers aren't running a charity. It's a flat fee. Some cars may arrive in pristine condition and some may require several man hours and possible repairs at the dealers cost.

It would be the first point of call if I was trying to shave off some dollars on a new car deal.

[Abacus]

I don't think the dealer delivery fee is entirely bullcrap, but I do feel it should simply be part of the dealer margin, and therefore negotiable.

One thing that is often overlooked by new car purchasers is that when a car is received by the dealer from the factory it is in no state for delivery to a customer. They all need a thorough detail. The paint will have dirt and muck from being transported, this will be aggravated if it has been out in the holding yard for a while. Depending on the car, there will be wax and sealant all over the body, and various packaging materials here there and everywhere. Some may have transport dings and scratches that have to be refinished. Various options, whilst on the original order, may have to be fitted by the dealership. There is usually a list of known issues with various cars that have to be corrected before delivery. These could be anything, from incorrectly tensioned exhaust manifold bolts to electrical connections. All the usual service type things have to be done, like making sure the battery is charged, checking fluid levels, tyre pressures, etc, etc. Somebody has to physically stick the interim (or rego) label on the windscreen and screw on the plates.

It all takes time, and predelivery is a legitimate profit centre for a dealership.

That being said, I believe that the pricing model for new cars is far too complicated. Dealers make their profit on new cars in several ways:

- The margin above factory invoice on a given car

- Holdback - which is effectively a refund of the purchase price of the vehicle, and can vary significantly between similar models, but is typically $500-$1,500 per car

- Factory bonuses, paid to stimulate sales of various models and trim levels from time to time,

Then you've got the profits from rust 'n dust, dealer fitted accessories, finance commisisons, etc.

When you go to buy a new car, the salesman isn't privy to all this stuff. That's one reason why deals have to be approved by the new car manager. At the end of the day, from a buyers perspective, the only numbers that really matter are:

- Driveaway price, and

- if there is a trade-in, changeover amount.

So my advice is, don't get hung up on predelivery costs. They are just part of the total pricing model. Focus on the delivered driveaway price, and get quotes from at least 3 dealers. The following technique has always worked for me:

- Don't visit dealers in person to get a price. Do it by fax and phone. That way you are not going to be affected by the power-plays that form part and parcel of new car sales personnel's training

- Make a conclusive list of your vehicles requirements, including colour, earliest build date (so you don't get stuck with a 2007 plated car), colour, model, accessories, rego type (private or business) etc, etc. Type this up and print it off. Make sure this is final. Dealers will run you in circles if any part of this is variable. This will be what you want to get quotes on.

- Fax your request for a quote to dealer 1, and ask that he fax you a quote. Call this quote #1.

- Fax your request for a quote to dealer 2, and tell him you have been quoted $x by quote 1. He will beat it. Get him to fax it to you. Call this quote #2.

- Fax your request for a quote to dealer 3. Tell dealer 3 you have been quoted $x by quote 2. He will beat it. Get him to fax it to you. Call this quote #3.

- Fax quote # 3 to dealer # 1. Ask him to send you a revised quote. Call this quote #4.

By now you are probably getting close to the final price. But just for good measure fax quote # 4 to dealer # 2 and ask him to send you a revised quote. If he can only beat it by a couple of hundred dollars, or less, you've realistically reached the end of the process.

[Nappa]

if you get the ford employee discount then the pricing on the cars is set by Ford Mo Co. You get such a ripper deal already there isnt a huge need to start shopping around.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Nappa

if you get the ford employee discount then the pricing on the cars is set by Ford Mo Co. You get such a ripper deal already there isnt a huge need to start shopping around.

Well, that's stating the obvious.

I doubt there are many forum members that will quit their job, go knocking on Ford's door for a job just to get employee discounts on their next car though.

[RATT]

Originally Posted by Abacus

I don't think the dealer delivery fee is entirely bullcrap, but I do feel it should simply be part of the dealer margin, and therefore negotiable.

One thing that is often overlooked by new car purchasers is that when a car is received by the dealer from the factory it is in no state for delivery to a customer. They all need a thorough detail. The paint will have dirt and muck from being transported, this will be aggravated if it has been out in the holding yard for a while. Depending on the car, there will be wax and sealant all over the body, and various packaging materials here there and everywhere. Some may have transport dings and scratches that have to be refinished. Various options, whilst on the original order, may have to be fitted by the dealership. There is usually a list of known issues with various cars that have to be corrected before delivery. These could be anything, from incorrectly tensioned exhaust manifold bolts to electrical connections. All the usual service type things have to be done, like making sure the battery is charged, checking fluid levels, tyre pressures, etc, etc. Somebody has to physically stick the interim (or rego) label on the windscreen and screw on the plates.

It all takes time, and predelivery is a legitimate profit centre for a dealership.

That being said, I believe that the pricing model for new cars is far too complicated. Dealers make their profit on new cars in several ways:

- The margin above factory invoice on a given car

- Holdback - which is effectively a refund of the purchase price of the vehicle, and can vary significantly between similar models, but is typically $500-$1,500 per car

- Factory bonuses, paid to stimulate sales of various models and trim levels from time to time,

Then you've got the profits from rust 'n dust, dealer fitted accessories, finance commisisons, etc.

When you go to buy a new car, the salesman isn't privy to all this stuff. That's one reason why deals have to be approved by the new car manager. At the end of the day, from a buyers perspective, the only numbers that really matter are:

- Driveaway price, and

- if there is a trade-in, changeover amount.

So my advice is, don't get hung up on predelivery costs. They are just part of the total pricing model. Focus on the delivered driveaway price, and get quotes from at least 3 dealers. The following technique has always worked for me:

- Don't visit dealers in person to get a price. Do it by fax and phone. That way you are not going to be affected by the power-plays that form part and parcel of new car sales personnel's training

- Make a conclusive list of your vehicles requirements, including colour, earliest build date (so you don't get stuck with a 2007 plated car), colour, model, accessories, rego type (private or business) etc, etc. Type this up and print it off. Make sure this is final. Dealers will run you in circles if any part of this is variable. This will be what you want to get quotes on.

- Fax your request for a quote to dealer 1, and ask that he fax you a quote. Call this quote #1.

- Fax your request for a quote to dealer 2, and tell him you have been quoted $x by quote 1. He will beat it. Get him to fax it to you. Call this quote #2.

- Fax your request for a quote to dealer 3. Tell dealer 3 you have been quoted $x by quote 2. He will beat it. Get him to fax it to you. Call this quote #3.

- Fax quote # 3 to dealer # 1. Ask him to send you a revised quote. Call this quote #4.

By now you are probably getting close to the final price. But just for good measure fax quote # 4 to dealer # 2 and ask him to send you a revised quote. If he can only beat it by a couple of hundred dollars, or less, you've realistically reached the end of the process.

Dealer charges do get classified as profit. And it does go toward covering other costs as well. Like I have said a number if times before, dealers do not make money from selling cars. Some prestige/luxury make dealers do but not Ford, Toyota etc.

Also, while you make some valid points, I don't particularly agree with the do everything over the phone/fax/email. This is just a good way to get the ball rolling. If you don't bother going in and actually talking face to face and not to mention, test drive the car you are after, fewer dealers will come back to you with a price. As they know you probably are shopping 4 or 5 other dealers. This is partially why there is a high turnover rate for salespeople in the motor trade.
They go through from one training course to another, drive days, product launches where they are taught how to present the vehicles, test drive etc. And after all that, in some cases they are only dealing with people via email where they go through a dutch auction to sell a car.

It is enough to drive a man to suicide...

Anyway, I won't go into it any further.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Well, that's stating the obvious.

I doubt there are many forum members that will quit their job, go knocking on Ford's door for a job just to get employee discounts on their next car though.

i was refering to the bloke who started the thread.

As Ratt stated using the fax or email may not get the best results, if the customer wants best price on 3 different spec of cars through a fax, email or phone then we are going to do our best not to give it to them unless they are here face to face.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Nappa

i was refering to the bloke who started the thread.

My apologies. Had completely forgotten what the first post was about when it morphed into 'why do we pay so much for dealer delivery'.