'the burden of being Lincoln'

[Buntz]

Introducing the Lincoln Motor Company:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=L5_xFBcAab0

And Brand reinvention:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/03/l...d-reinvention/

[Bossxr8]

If only they had anything worth buying.

[Moby Vic]

Gotta start somewhere. Cadillac didn't turn around instantaneously.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Gotta start somewhere. Cadillac didn't turn around instantaneously.

Alfa Romeo wasn't built in a day (oh that was gold on my part )

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If only they had anything worth buying.

They might soon...and we might benifit from these RWD sedans...

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/04/r...n-mkz-success/

[max_torq]

lincoln continental concept car.

they should build this (maybe update the dash)

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Nikked

They might soon...and we might benifit from these RWD sedans...

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/04/r...n-mkz-success/

Ooh, thanks for that link!

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by max_torq

lincoln continental concept car.

they should build this (maybe update the dash)

Not just the dash - the whole thing! That big, bloated, American look isn't Lincoln anymore (thank goodness!)...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Not just the dash - the whole thing! That big, bloated, American look isn't Lincoln anymore (thank goodness!)...

Yeah it's way to square. It looks worse than the original Continental. That's an easy thing to do because the original is timeless, and beautifully elegant.

The MKR from the previous page is the way to go IMO.

[Buntz]

Oh dear:http://www.edmunds.com/lincoln/mkz/2013/road-test.html

They didn't... they did.

[Bossxr8]

Just as i've said 100 times before, they are kidding themselves if they think a range of FWD/AWD shiteboxes, with 4's and V6's, are going to save the brand.

Rip it up and start from scratch, use the E8 platform in Falcon size and a LWB version, and fit it with Ecoboost 4's for the base model and a V8 Coyote for the middle of the road version, with a top of line version fitted with the Miami V8. If you must have a V6 fit the Ecoboost version.

The Lincoln brand is going nowhere with these lame platforms.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Buntz

Oh dear:http://www.edmunds.com/lincoln/mkz/2013/road-test.html

They didn't... they did.

OMG.. That is one very very very bad review.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

OMG.. That is one very very very bad review.

Not only was it a bad review... but putting high end tires on it that probably cannot be optioned on the car for a review... was a serious fail by Ford.

[Nikked]

Lincoln is America's Falcon...

Same tone to the interview that you see by some journo's here, and i think the sitiuation on Lincoln got in the way of the review.

Originally Posted by Buntz

Not only was it a bad review... but putting high end tires on it that probably cannot be optioned on the car for a review... was a serious fail by Ford.

Bit of a faux pas for sure, but it wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer has handed over a car that has had some "attention" payed to it.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Lincoln is America's Falcon...

Same tone to the interview that you see by some journo's here, and i think the situation on Lincoln got in the way of the review.

Perfectly said! The prejudice tone comes out the minute the Lincoln name is mentioned - anywhere - and half the time the negative comments are unfounded and just downright ignorant of what the situation really is at Lincoln - i.e. they're not trying to be a BMW copy-cat a la Cadillac by wasting billions on RWD platforms that become obsolete before they pay themselves back (*cough* Sigma).

Bit of a faux pas for sure, but it wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer has handed over a car that has had some "attention" payed to it.

It was a poor choice for Lincoln (of all companies) to make this mistake and I'm sure that's what's left the sour taste in the reviewers mouth, but I read this and have a little chuckle:

"Because of those tires, the 2013 Lincoln MKZ went through our slalom at 69.2 mph. That's just 1 mph slower than the last 911 we tested, and a couple tenths quicker than the BMW M5. We repeat, the Lincoln MKZ beat the M5."

Does that not say the base vehicle is a well sorted platform? The tyres wouldn't make seconds upon seconds worth of difference alone...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Perfectly said! The prejudice tone comes out the minute the Lincoln name is mentioned - anywhere - and half the time the negative comments are unfounded and just downright ignorant of what the situation really is at Lincoln - i.e. they're not trying to be a BMW copy-cat a la Cadillac by wasting billions on RWD platforms that become obsolete before they pay themselves back (*cough* Sigma).

That's because reviewers have been frustrated with Lincoln for so long. And they still fail to impress. There is really nothing special about them. They're just Luxurious.. but not special.

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

It was a poor choice for Lincoln (of all companies) to make this mistake and I'm sure that's what's left the sour taste in the reviewers mouth, but I read this and have a little chuckle:

"Because of those tires, the 2013 Lincoln MKZ went through our slalom at 69.2 mph. That's just 1 mph slower than the last 911 we tested, and a couple tenths quicker than the BMW M5. We repeat, the Lincoln MKZ beat the M5."

Does that not say the base vehicle is a well sorted platform? The tyres wouldn't make seconds upon seconds worth of difference alone...

The tyres make a massive difference. Great tyres are sure way to increase any car's performance (and cost of ownership)

[Buntz]

New MKC in the testing... but it's the Escape clone... not the Compact that's been in the works for many years now.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/19/l...d-for-detroit/

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Buntz

New MKC in the testing... but it's the Escape clone... not the Compact that's been in the works for many years now.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/19/l...d-for-detroit/

I'm pretty sure the compact idea was quashed a long time ago...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

I'm pretty sure the compact idea was quashed a long time ago...

Was on the website up until a year ago... now it's not there.

[Rev28K]

Lincoln's a bit of a weirdy. It has to be aspirational, sell in big numbers in America and be exportable.

Do a lot of yanks like the German luxo sedans? And to a lesser extent the Lexus, Infiniti and (maybe) Acura.

Chrysler have appropriated the low end "gangsta" low turret look for their 300 and Charger. "Imported from Detroit" and it seems to have worked for them.

GM has spent a fortune on their "Art & Science" Cadillac division. While I liked the XLR the rest of the range is a bit "meah", and yes that does include the CTS-V. The figures for exported Cadillacs in the UK are very sobering. I wouldn't call Cadillac and overall success yet.

Ford have struggled for decades with Lincoln. Ask Gerry McGovern (ex Rover/MG, now Land Rover (he did the Evoque)).....
http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010/...ury-messenger/

and how cool did that concept look?

[Buntz]

The thing is. Ford is looking to the best it can... with the least amount of money. Hence more of the same.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Buntz

The thing is. Ford is looking to the best it can... with the least amount of money. Hence more of the same.

You pointed it out yourself that nothing will (or can) change overnight [indeed, over a year or two], so some perseverance with some (hopefully) cash-cow models is required before Lincoln can properly start leading the segment in terms of products.

This done in the right mind set is almost all this latest resurgence needs to be successful - billions upon billions spent on platforms and cars that are appropriate today (and might not be tomorrow) that might not even sell is not.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

You pointed it out yourself that nothing will (or can) change overnight [indeed, over a year or two], so some perseverance with some (hopefully) cash-cow models is required before Lincoln can properly start leading the segment in terms of products.

This done in the right mind set is almost all this latest resurgence needs to be successful - billions upon billions spent on platforms and cars that are appropriate today (and might not be tomorrow) that might not even sell is not.

My hope rest upon RWD Lincolns. If they don't, then the brand should be scrapped as it's just a waste of money.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Buntz

My hope rest upon RWD Lincolns. If they don't, then the brand should be scrapped as it's just a waste of money.

That's your opinion and that's fine, but there's more people in the market that look at more than one aspect when buying a car - Engines, design, economy (more so in the luxury segment), interior features, safety etc. The drive wheels would have very little to do with the average buyers decision...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

That's your opinion and that's fine, but there's more people in the market that look at more than one aspect when buying a car - Engines, design, economy (more so in the luxury segment), interior features, safety etc. The drive wheels would have very little to do with the average buyers decision...

Unfortunately the only thing that distinguishes a Lincoln from a Ford... is interior features. Well not so much features because they're the same, but leather, wood, chrome, wool carpets. And in the MKZ's case, a huge panoramic roof.

This is what annoys the journalists, and Ford fans.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Buntz

Not only was it a bad review... but putting high end tires on it that probably cannot be optioned on the car for a review... was a serious fail by Ford.

Autoblog was far kinder. But they too feel the MKZ falls short.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/07/2...-review-video/

It's so frustrating, because we know the answer lies down under... but they can't see that. They want to be Audi with AWD... but what they make is no Quattro.

Ford has great stuff to leverage in Lincoln... like Coyote... but it's not happening. Ahh well, hopefully the rumour is right and they see the light.

[Rev28K]

Remember Ford US may be a bit gun shy about importing models from overseas.

Mercury had the:
Capri (original RWD coupe)i which was a success
Merkur (European Sierra with a strangled engine)
Scorpio (again from Europe I don't think they were that successful)
Capri (Aussie convertible) which didn't go too well partly due to being a year late and the MX5 getting in beforehand.

Lincoln sold the early Panteras (which weren't that reliable).

The Monaro went to Pontiac as the new GTO and was perceived as too bland looking (compared to what pontiac was selling at the time that's a compliment!). GM are going to try again with the VF Commodore (SS) and ute (El Camino)

Then look at the cars that have come out here to Aus and been successful (apologies in advance to the people that own and love them);
Mustang (yes, they sold them all).
Taurus (not loved, build quality problems and we didn't get an SHO).
Probe (not that successful, I thought that the Mazda clone was better looking).
Cougar (Mercury sold the same car, they tried the Eibach model but I don't think that it really took off).
Ironically I think that the Lincoln Navigator is a small success in the UK where it has targeted a "wide boy" rich footballer market for buyers who don't want a Cadillac Escallade.

If Lincoln are thinking of getting Aussie Ford Falcons over there it'll need all the engineering compromises that Holden made with their cars, Ford Aus should grab any government assistance they are entitled to, the timing, marketing, pricing and build quality are SOOOO crucial to it being a success. a sub-par model priced at stupid prices (remember how much Ford charged for Mustang Cobras out here? And they had a pent-up baby boomer market for an iconic name.) could help kill the Falcon.

Holden seem to sell enough cars in the middle east which helps at home. But I also think that they must be doing a lot with their marketing and pricing to do that.

[Buntz]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/30/h...ed-a-limo-rev/

The deaths of the Ford Crown Victoria and the Lincoln Town Car have meant overhauls of three high-profile American fleets: police, taxi and livery car. Just as police fleets are more open to considering other options and a Nissan van is the new face of the NYC taxi, livery car companies are looking at replacements for the Town Car beyond The Blue Oval. Ford, via Lincoln, has made an MKT Town Car (pictured), but an article in the Detroit News claims "it has failed to win over most of the big limousine companies." The upstarts trying to move in include livery and limo editions of the Cadillac XTS, and livery specifications of the Toyota Avalon and Chrysler 300.

Each of those challengers, however, faces challenges. The Town Car was a workhorse, American, rear-wheel-drive sedan with plenty of rear legroom. Cadillac has been in the livery space before but with decontented models that were about selling the brand, not its luxury. It is taking the opposite approach with the XTS, pointing out that its livery edition is "contented in the upper half of the XTS range." Still, the CEO of Michigan's largest livery company says "it's quite a bit smaller than what we're used to," and he also prefers rear-wheel drive.

The Chrysler 300 is rear-wheel drive, and American, which matters to some companies, but Chrysler hasn't yet revealed the livery package for it. The livery Avalon marks Toyota's first time getting into that business in the US, a natural step after having done so well with taxi clients and with the Town Car out of the way. Still, the livery client is a different to taxi buyers, so the Avalon could face other soft-touch hurdles.

Don't expect to see any of them flooding the streets immediately. The US fleet of the world's largest livery firm remains 85 percent Town Car, and companies are still finishing their research into what drivers and passengers want. But a brave new black car world beckons, and it look like it won't include nearly as many Lincolns as it used to.

I hope that Ford is going to debut the Falcon's new platform underneath the new Mustang in 2014.

When will they see the light of RWD?

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Buntz

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/30/h...ed-a-limo-rev/
I hope that Ford is going to debut the Falcon's new platform underneath the new Mustang in 2014.

When will they see the light of RWD?

Isn't the Mustang live rear axle good for the quarter mile? Do you think that the new Mustang have an IRS?

It's ben a dream for years that the cheap RWD Mustang and cheap RWD Falcon would have a lot more interchangeability.

[Bossxr8]

So Lincoln have tried to make a Town Car limo replacement an SUV? No wonder they continually fail with genius ideas like this.

Anyone every seen a limo company use SUV's, bar the odd stretched Hummer.

To me it appears they are trying to do everything as cheap as they can, by using unsuitable Ford platforms and trying to force buyers onto them believing they are stupid enough to think their vehicles are somehow replacements for things like the Towncar, Marauder and those 2 door coupes they used to sell etc.

No wonder they are barely selling. Go back 3 years and Ford Australia was selling more Falcons and Territorys in a month than what the whole Lincoln range does now, in a market 15 times bigger.