Conflicting info re. 98 RON fuels & supply

cobramania · 04-03-2008, 06:43 PM

Guys,

There have been a few different threads here regarding 98 RON fuels & supplies (or lack of) & quality of different brands.

I have read all with interest & noticed that problems with one fuel refinery causes no supply to other brands, I have also noted some "insider" comments on quality & have decided that BP Ultimate is the go (according to poll's done here, most people think the same).

One post said that shell refinery problems in Sydney was causing supply problems to BP as well in NSW becasue shell supplied BP, getting worried as most people think Shell V-Power is crap I decided to try & find who supplies what to who.

Without trying to sound bias I contacted Shell Technical advice to find if Shell servo's were out of V-power could I buy it elsewhere knowing it was still Shell fuel & was told
"We do not supply any other oil companies with our 98 RON fuel, V Power. Other companies fuels are of different additive package to that of Shells, so you will not exactly be getting "Shell Quality" fuel."

I had a feeling this was the case & I suspect other companies would say the same.

I also looked into the refinery & distribution of all the brands & found that, yes regular unleaded is sometimes shared & could be any brand manufacture in any brand servo. I know at the Newcastle distribution points Shell supplies Mobil, but the shell terminal can get fuel from the Caltex Sydney refinery or the Caltex terminal can get fuel from the Shell Sydney refinery as they both share the same pipeline (from both refineries to both terminals). At Newcastle BP ships (via sea, not truck) it's fuels from the Qld refinery.

98 RON fuels are distributed differently & as such if you buy from a BP you're getting Ultimate, if you buy from Caltex you're getting Vortex98, etc.

From what I've found (I'm willing to be corrected if someone else can find something different & can prove it). When 1 refinery has a 98 RON supply problem, the only reason another brand is having supply problems is simply supply & demand (less supply, same demand).

Chrispy · 04-03-2008, 06:53 PM

Very good, someone is learning.
The only way you can garrantee you are getting a particular companies fuel is if the servo is owned by that company (maximum 5% by law) and there is a refinery in the region that is operational at the time.

Yes, most of the fuel in Newcastle is Caltex (via their newcastle pipeline) irrespective of the label at the pump.

Chrispy

XDV800 · 04-03-2008, 07:53 PM

Good info there.
My understanding is the same for 98 RON fuels, the differents brands add there own compounds to the fuel before its distributed to servos, to get there own specific formula of ultimate, v power, vortex 98, etc.
To simply explain i guess they would just add a BIG bottle of their own octane booster to the cauldron.
One thing is for sure, they all have different formulas with different benefits and side-effects, yet the public awareness of these attributes and what they provide their particular vehicle/which brand is best for your particular car, is largely unknown to the majority i suspect.

fmc351 · 04-03-2008, 08:55 PM

From what I can gather from your comments re: supply and demand at the end, your interpretation was Shell does not distribute the fuel to other companies. What Shell told you was they do supply the fuel, but each brand makes changes to the final product, so they dont supply V-Power but they do supply the base of other brands 98RON. Therefore if Shell has a problem, anyone supplied by them will also have a problem as they have no base fuel to change in order to make a final product.

Fuel companies would likely have reciprocal arrangements with each other Id imagine. Refineries have whats known as shut downs where companies like World Services, Gardner Perrott and a number of others (may be different companies now) spend 6-8 weeks refitting and servicing the plant, during this time half the plant is in pieces. Massive pipe bundles (say 2-300 10 mm pipes) fill most of those towers, and the pipes need flushing free of scale and other crap, and that just one aspect of the plant, theres heaps of others, cooling towers for product processing, cooling towers and manifolds for the water used in the process. That takes time so the refinery wont be making fuel for weeks. Its often cheaper to use the fuel of a competitor than ship your own in from somewhere else.

cobramania · 04-03-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

From what I can gather from your comments re: supply and demand at the end, your interpretation was Shell does not distribute the fuel to other companies. What Shell told you was they do supply the fuel, but each brand makes changes to the final product, so they dont supply V-Power but they do supply the base of other brands 98RON. Therefore if Shell has a problem, anyone supplied by them will also have a problem as they have no base fuel to change in order to make a final product.

Fuel companies would likely have reciprocal arrangements with each other Id imagine. Refineries have whats known as shut downs where companies like World Services, Gardner Perrott and a number of others (may be different companies now) spend 6-8 weeks refitting and servicing the plant, during this time half the plant is in pieces. Massive pipe bundles (say 2-300 10 mm pipes) fill most of those towers, and the pipes need flushing free of scale and other crap, and that just one aspect of the plant, theres heaps of others, cooling towers for product processing, cooling towers and manifolds for the water used in the process. That takes time so the refinery wont be making fuel for weeks. Its often cheaper to use the fuel of a competitor than ship your own in from somewhere else.

Regarding supply & demand, that's not what I meant. If you read my post again you'll find I said (& Shell said) "Shell DO NOT SUPPLY any other companies" I didn't say distribute. Re. 98 RON V-power comes from a Shell refinery, Ultimate comes from a BP refinery, Vortex98 comes from a Caltex refinery & Synergy 8000 comes from a Mobil refinery. Regular 91 RON fuels are a totally different matter though.

All compaines have at least 2 refineries in Australia in different states, as for a refinery problem or shutdown, regular unleaded (91 RON) fuels may be sourced from another compainies refinery close by (same state), but I think you'll find Premium (98 RON) fuels will be shiped from the other working refinery &/or be hard to get in the areas/states normally supplied from the "offline" refinery.

GT-E · 04-03-2008, 10:07 PM

All I can say is I am sick of trying to find 98RON fuel on the Sydney Northern Beaches.
My local Shell has been out of V-Power for months

TEaaron · 04-03-2008, 10:18 PM

Ewww shell.

There was a stage where my local mobile was out of 98, It happened about 3 times in a week. but since then i've never seen it out.

fmc351 · 04-03-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobramania

Regarding supply & demand, that's not what I meant. If you read my post again you'll find I said (& Shell said) "Shell DO NOT SUPPLY any other companies" I didn't say distribute. Re. 98 RON V-power comes from a Shell refinery, Ultimate comes from a BP refinery, Vortex98 comes from a Caltex refinery & Synergy 8000 comes from a Mobil refinery. Regular 91 RON fuels are a totally different matter though.

All compaines have at least 2 refineries in Australia in different states, as for a refinery problem or shutdown, regular unleaded (91 RON) fuels may be sourced from another compainies refinery close by (same state), but I think you'll find Premium (98 RON) fuels will be shiped from the other working refinery &/or be hard to get in the areas/states normally supplied from the "offline" refinery.

If you read her quote as you typed it, it could be read as they supply the fuel, just not the end product you buy. As in, Shell dont supply V-Power to be marketed as Ultimate etc, they do supply 98 RON or its base to BP for example which BP modify into Ultimate with their own additives. When she said, "so you will not exactly be getting Shell quality fuel", that kind of implies Shell has something to do with it. If Shell doesnt make it, seems more prudent to state its not Shell at all, rather than dance around with words like, "not exactly".

Im not saying Im right as you probably paraphrased, thats just the way I interpret that text.