Rough Idle

[eternity]

It makes two of you to have a similar problem:

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11232876

[waggaclint]

sound like the injectors need a clean....one is probably leaking...

[JMO]

Is it possible to give them a bit of a clean yourself? I've got no problem with taking them off. Last time I checked it was $300-$400 to have them taken off and cleaned.

I'm guessing one of the fuel additives will pretty much do nothing for it.

[JMO]

Can anyone tell me where the vaccum lines are in the engine bay (pics please ) so I can check them.

In the mean time I'll put some injector cleaner through the system. Can anyone recommend something that can clean the whole fuel system, along the lines of Spitfire?

I know Ultratune have a fuel system cleaning service, but from memory I read on here that it isn't worth the money ($200+?). For that kind of cash I might as well get the Injectors taken off and cleaned properly.

[waggaclint]

the only proper way to clean them is remove and put them in a sonic bath....most of the on car stuff doesnt do anything....if you get them done properly they will be able to put them on a flow bench and check them properly to see if there is a problem....

[JMO]

I've cleaned (as best I can) the fuel reg but it didn't help.

Could the map sensor be faulty and be a possible cause of the rough idle?

While on the topic, does anyone know of a mobile injector cleaning service?

[JMO]

I've determined that the bearings in the water pump pulley are stuffed and are making a decent amount of noise. Could this be a culprit for the rough idle and could someone tell me the rough price for a new one?

[mr302xd]

I have the same problem with the XR mate. Ive done plug leads etc nothin changes. Havent do injectors though. Will hang out for ur updates.

Cheers Frank

[JMO]

OK old thread but still having trouble.

I pulled out the spark plug tester and noticed that the spark might be irregular. By that I mean that there is a fairly sporadic movement in light when compared to my brothers who's might flash brightly every 6-8 seconds.

Is there anything that could cause irregular spark besides the leads, coil pack and plugs? ECU or something? I changed the plugs not too long ago and swapped over the leads and coil pack with my brothers that are working correctly.


So far I have:

-Changed air filter
-Changed ISC
-Tightened all but one of the inlet manifold bolts
-Cleaned throttle body
-Changed sparks and leads
-Changed O2 sensor
-Changed cat convertor
-Changed coil pack
-Checked to the best of my ability for vacuum leaks
-Cleaned MAP sensor

I still haven't gotten around to having the injectors cleaned but when I take them off, I'll change the gasket around the intake manifold/engine block. I've read that the exhaust manifold can be a possible cause of rough idle, so when I get around to having the headers installed, I'll have them take a look and most likely change the gasket there too.

One other thing. Could there be an issue with vaccum lines causing the butterfly in the short and long runners of the BBM not to open/close properly? Long shot I know and probably has nothing to do with rough idle.

[JMO]

Right, digging up my thread because this is still giving me grief...

Since the last post, I have:

-Changed air filter
-Changed over ISC
-Replaced inlet manifold gasket
-Cleaned throttle body and upper/lower inlet manifold
-Changed sparks and leads
-Changed O2 sensor
-Changed cat convertor
-Changed over coil pack
-Checked to the best of my ability for vacuum leaks
-Cleaned MAP sensor
-Changed transmission mount
-Exhaust gasket replaced (new headers installed)
-New injectors and fuel rail + regulator
-Replaced Engine Mounts
-Compression test came up alright. There was some variation (as expected)
-swapped fuel pump for another working unit
-new fuel filter
-new harmonic balancer
-new pcv and rubber

As I've said previously, the vibration is basically non existent in 'N' or 'P' and only present when in gear and at idle. It does not hesitate at all after ~1000rpm and cruising along. (giving it a bootful doesn't seem to hurt it :P)

I had the transmission serviced at a transmission specialist about a week ago and asked them to have a look at the torque converter. They couldn't disconnect the torque convertor to test it for being faulty because the vibration would not happen while in 'N' or 'P'.

They could definately feel the vibration and described it as 'framing out' so they were checking for places where the engine or transmission could be touching the body, but couldn't find any. So they said to start out by replacing the engine and transmission mounts with genuine items and go from there. As you can see, I've almost replaced everything...

One thing I should mention is that I currently have diagnostic mode running and every once in a while when the car is first started, after about 30 seconds the engine will begin to stumble and drop from running between 500-700 rpm down to about 400rpm. To me this basically rules out the mounts. It is obviously to do with combustion or driveline.

I've got a few possibilities left to try:

1. Swap over ECU ( I have one in the garage but don't know if that will have any effect as no error codes have been picked up. I don't know how a faulty ECU would behave)

2. Swap over complete wiring harness (I don't know if this would throw up a code if it was faulty)

3. Swap in knock sensor (The only sensor I haven't swapped over is the knock sensor, but I don't think it would have any effect on idle)

4. Have the torque convertor replaced (I know the transmission specialist wasn't too convinced that it was the cause, but from how I described it, I think it could quite likely be the cause)

5. Replace the Engine and transmission altogether (Save me the trouble of possibly having to go through what I have listed above as well as possibly taking the engine apart and going internal, I think that's where my technical knowledge would definately be tested :P)

Any other suggestions, ideas or thoughts?

I'm running short of things to try...

[Ride]

This might sound a bit wierd but what type/viscosity of engine oil are you using?

[JMO]

10W30 Shell semi synthetic

Last night the stalling I described happened again as I was leaving home. This time it was in 'P'. The revs stated as normal ~800-900rpm, dropped to ~600-700rpm (almost dying) then jumped back up to ~1000rpm then back to normal. This repeated about 8 times before I put it in 'D' and left. Hmmm.....

[toughtimes]

gday mate, have you managed to fix the idle??

[Day-mow]

mayb its just how it runs? hows the fuel filter going? thats been changed hasn't it.
no leaks in your air intake set up?

[azza11]

I had same issue, changed a lot of things by process of ellimanation. Only thing i changed which did not cost a cent, took it out of economy mode. I have been running around in economy mode for 5 years (yeah i know but car ran great) it was only when i took i in for work that we did a throttle body clean, upper cylinder clean etc that it started playing up. Drives great now.

AZZA

[broken_suave]

Nothing to do with Aircon? Have you tried running around in it for a while with and withou the AC on?

[JMO]

Digging this up for some info for another thread and noticed some posts I hadn't seen before.

toughtimes - not yet

Day-mow - might be how it runs because it's a dream apart from the idle

azza11 - How long did you run it out of economy for before you noticed a change?

broken_suave - Funny you mention the AC because I have noticed that when it is on the idle smooths out and then goes rough once it is turned off. I thought it was the increase in revs that made it smooth out because if AC is off and car is idling rough, if I increase revs with the accelerator buy a few hundred the roughness disappears.

What do you think might be wrong with the AC to cause my problems? What can I check or look out for to see if it is the cause?

[Blue_Flame]

Originally Posted by JMO

Digging this up for some info for another thread and noticed some posts I hadn't seen before.

toughtimes - not yet

Day-mow - might be how it runs because it's a dream apart from the idle

azza11 - How long did you run it out of economy for before you noticed a change?

broken_suave - Funny you mention the AC because I have noticed that when it is on the idle smooths out and then goes rough once it is turned off. I thought it was the increase in revs that made it smooth out because if AC is off and car is idling rough, if I increase revs with the accelerator buy a few hundred the roughness disappears.

What do you think might be wrong with the AC to cause my problems? What can I check or look out for to see if it is the cause?

Hows it all going mate, have you got that rough idle problem sorted yet?
I reckon I have the same problem as you, my list of things I have tried is not quite as long as yours but I reckoned I would be wasting my time if I did.
My next move is to replace the stepper motor on top of the throttle body.
Bit pricey at $130 delivered but still cheaper than Ford's $190.
Here is the link to the page I have been on, http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...71#post3360371
Cheers Lionel

[JMO]

No luck yet. I've swapped over the ECU and BEM with no change. I still have to get around to changing the new after market engine mounts (they are a little hard) with some older genuine ones and see if there is a change. The car hasn't died yet :P and is a dream to drive until you come to stop, while in D (P, N are fine). The revs sit steady, it's just the vibration that goes through the entire body of the car...

I think it's probably safe to say, in my case anyway, it's either:

1. Bad engine mounts transferring the low frequency vibration (generated by the low revs of engine at idle) throughout the car

2. The torque convertor is unbalanced (if that is possible) as the vibration is non existant while in P and N

3. It is something internal (I've got no idea where to start with it...) but would be surprised as it is beautiful at every other time but idle while in D.

There are no air leaks or fault codes that are generated, so unless there is some dodgey wiring somewhere I don't think there is much more I can do.

The motor you mentioned is a good place to start. Best of luck with it

[Blue_Flame]

Have you tried a new stepper motor?
Easier than engine mounts, I reckon with continued rough idling I would need new engine mounts.
Doubt if your torque converter is out of balance, I'm guessing it would manifest it self as a high speed vibe and be very annoying at cruising speed.
Like wise something internal, it would get worse as revs increased not dissappear and I reckon for as long as you have had this problem, something would have let go by now if this was the case.
Good luck mate.

[ED Ford Falcon]

My old car had the exact same symptoms and I tried most of the things you have done..

In the end I replaced the catalytic converter and upped the idle a little bit and it has been a lot smoother

Good luck with it JMO

[JMO]

If by stepper motor you mean ISC (on top of the throttle body) I've swapped it over with two other units I borrowed and there was no change. I which it wasn't the case :P The cat has been changed and adjusting the idle to smooth it out causes a massive jump in revs when shifting the tbar from P, D, N etc. I have also changed the entire wiring harness that connects the ISC, MAP etc to the ECU and there wasn't a change. I've also changed all the gaskets possible (apart from the head) and nothing.

It really is bizzare.

I agree that it most likely isn't something internal as it would have deteriorated further and shown itself, so the most likely thing to look at is something very minor but I'll be damned if I or the other 2 mechanics, exhaust shop and transmission specialist can pin it down definately :(

[edroders]

engine mounts?

[JMO]

Originally Posted by edroders

engine mounts?

I did mention them in my post above

I replaced the originals with after market items and they seemed to be harder than the genuine ones. I was told be the transmission place that he once did a change over from after remarket to genuine and it solved is issue but I'm not sure if he was trying to pull a fast one

I'll replace the after market items that are on there now with some used genuine ones first before buying new ones. Although the used ones I have may be stuffed as well...

[sly]

Has anyone played with the idle stop screw on the throttle body?

[JMO]

Originally Posted by sly

Has anyone played with the idle stop screw on the throttle body?

Not originally, then I tried adjusting it myself, made it worse then put it back to where it should be.

[littleredwagon]

This is very interesting. I have just bought an XH ute with the same symptoms. Mine is on LPG and idles rough on both fuels at around 700 rpm and if I raise it to 800 rpm it smooths out considerably. Petrol idle seems to be slightly better. I have a slight noise coming from the cat so I will follow the cat possibility. I've only had it for a couple of weeks and haven't had time to get it over the pit yet. Due largely to the other vehicles in the shed!! I have a sensational EFI wizz here in Adelaide and I'm sure he'll sort it out. I'll post any findings here to keep the dream alive.

[Mr_Monty]

There Have been on the f150 forums alot of people complaining about rough idle, Caused by air getting in before o2 senors. like typicaly a crack, loosed extractor bolts and the gasket being shagged.

A good tell would be like a ticking or clicking (hissing too) coming from the extractors.

Being an AU if you know anyone with a datalogger you can see what the ecu is seeing.

Id try aswell cleaning connections with contact cleaner. remember there are some under the dash that sit below the heater core! if they get coolant on the it will cause a Lean reading from o2's.

** just throwing in a last thought, could it be a few lash adjusters playing up? giving its having uneven burn accross cylinders from the look of spark plugs**

and another last thought....lol yeah yeah ranting, i know from experience Rough idles come from a valve leaking, like for instance a burnt out valve (its like a small bit of the valve missing that stops it from sealing) up the revs smooths out. a HLA could do the same i think?

Best of luck.

[littleredwagon]

Further to my points about my XH, I noticed yersterday that up when the car is cold and up until it gets to full operating temp, it runs fine. Once at operating temp the rough idle starts.