Why so few old Falcons remaining compared to Commodores?

[Sprintey]

What a good article, they know about comfort, , simplicity, reliability and common parts!

[fatgas]

Ford never really sorted their panel prep and paint processes in Australia, whereas Holden to their credit pulled the digit out with VN and they didn't look back. The only Commodores VN and newer I see that are rusting are the ones that are poorly repaired after a shunt.

[BENT_8]

Up until VN production Holden only dipped the bodies to the waist line and because they went through the dip on a conveyor the wave and wake created a void around the rear windscreen base which rusted out, this processed changed with VN and the whole body was dipped.
Falcond prior to EA were prone to rust in the plenum which would flood the front floors and required substantial work to repair in removing windscreen, dash, gaurds, bonnet and then cut open.
I had a beautiful XE in 2000 but couldnt take it out in winter for this reason.

Obviously E series suffered head gasket issues that really affected not only daily driven cars but limited the used engines available in wreckers too.
The funny thing is, they fixed that in AU and wreckers couldnt give them away.

I spoke to a mate who owned a used car yard back in 07 and he said every manual Falcon he could get his hands on went up north to indigenous communities as they loved them and paid way overs to what could be sold for down here, he said lots of yards did the same. Probably plenty still active albeit unregistered.
I got a nice XE S pak off him that day as it was auto and worth nothing, gave it a straight gas conversion and sold it to a FF member.

So there are a few factors at play.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Up until VN production Holden only dipped the bodies to the waist line and because they went through the dip on a conveyor the wave and wake created a void around the rear windscreen base which rusted out, this processed changed with VN and the whole body was dipped.
Falcond prior to EA were prone to rust in the plenum which would flood the front floors and required substantial work to repair in removing windscreen, dash, gaurds, bonnet and then cut open.
I had a beautiful XE in 2000 but couldnt take it out in winter for this reason.

Obviously E series suffered head gasket issues that really affected not only daily driven cars but limited the used engines available in wreckers too.
The funny thing is, they fixed that in AU and wreckers couldnt give them away.

I spoke to a mate who owned a used car yard back in 07 and he said every manual Falcon he could get his hands on went up north to indigenous communities as they loved them and paid way overs to what could be sold for down here, he said lots of yards did the same. Probably plenty still active albeit unregistered.
I got a nice XE S pak off him that day as it was auto and worth nothing, gave it a straight gas conversion and sold it to a FF member.

So there are a few factors at play.

Yes they play cards in the headlights until the battery goes flat, then push start the car the next day. so automatic cars are not wanted out back by them at all.

[XR Martin]

Regarding XF/XG/XH utes not surviving compared to Holden utes, remember that the Falcons have always been used for work, where the Commodores have usually been for play.
Holden even tried a 1 tonner VZ and I think they only sold a few hundred.

Sure they rusted but I've been through heaps of wreckers and rarely did I see one scrapped solely due to rust.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Regarding XF/XG/XH utes not surviving compared to Holden utes, remember that the Falcons have always been used for work, where the Commodores have usually been for play.
Holden even tried a 1 tonner VZ and I think they only sold a few hundred.

I think you'll find that the VG-VS Utes were used much more as a workhorse than the later VU-VZ versions because the latter had IRS, while the early ones had a live rear axle.

They made 1 Tonners in both VY & VZ & they sold many 1,000s in 2WD, but the AWD version was VZ only & it sold in much smaller numbers.

Dr Terry

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Regarding XF/XG/XH utes not surviving compared to Holden utes, remember that the Falcons have always been used for work, where the Commodores have usually been for play.

Some still are.
Genset and granite to Beechworth today 4 new tyres on the way home.

[janddbone]

Do not discount the thousands of Falcons used as race cars over the years having a significant effect.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by janddbone

Do not discount the thousands of Falcons used as race cars over the years having a significant effect.

Hmm, considering Ford sold around 70-80,000 Falcons per year in the late 90s, I'm not sure if a few thousands of those used for racing would have much effect.
Maybe the fact that the Falcons were used as taxis while the Commodores weren't might have some effect.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by janddbone

Do not discount the thousands of Falcons used as race cars over the years having a significant effect.

There's not to many HQ Holden sedans left thanks to the HQ racing series.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

There's not to many HQ Holden sedans left thanks to the HQ racing series.

They actually made 467,558 HQ's, it was the best selling model Holden ever made, the next closest was the EH with 256,959, I still see a fair few good HQ's around

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

They actually made 467,558 HQ's, it was the best selling model Holden ever made, the next closest was the EH with 256,959, I still see a fair few good HQ's around

Correct, I still see plenty of HQ's getting around, not bad since they were considered a rust bucket.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

They actually made 467,558 HQ's, it was the best selling model Holden ever made, the next closest was the EH with 256,959, I still see a fair few good HQ's around

I believe that the VE Commodores surpassed the HQs build total. I don't have exact figures, but around 350,000 were sold in Australia with another 170,000 exported. That's approximately 520,000 in total.

Dr Terry

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I believe that the VE Commodores surpassed the HQs build total. I don't have exact figures, but around 350,000 were sold in Australia with another 170,000 exported. That's approximately 520,000 in total.

Dr Terry

I didn't include the Commodore as its origins were European, but yes they made a lot of VE's

I think most Holden figures are what were sold in Australia, they sold knock down kits to South Africa too

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

They actually made 467,558 HQ's, it was the best selling model Holden ever made, the next closest was the EH with 256,959, I still see a fair few good HQ's around

There's still a good supply of HQ utes and tonners (occasional wagon, Monaro's and Statesman) getting around but not so much of the Belmont/Kingswood sedan variety.

[jpd80]

In some instances, scrapping a vehicle that’s become unroadworthy may yield more in return than trying to fix it.
I remember seeing a 2020 price of $6,600 for rebuilding ZF6HP. and think it must surely be more now…

[Franco Cozzo]

Same with Hyundai Excels, when was the last time someone saw one of those things? The excel racing series took them all from us

Saw there's a Mazda RX8 racing series, thats the next nugget car thats going to completely disappear - those things would be stacked 10 high at the tip otherwise.

Only thing they're good for is LS conversions.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Same with Hyundai Excels, when was the last time someone saw one of those things? The excel racing series took them all from us

No great loss

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Same with Hyundai Excels, when was the last time someone saw one of those things? The excel racing series took them all from us

That and speedway, juniors car of choice at the moment.
Before the Excels it was the Daihatsu Charade, when I had my GTti race car the only way to get parts was to buy whole cars, even then you had to be quick, the speedway guys were buying up and hoarding everything.

[XR Martin]

G8 220 and in the same carpark a DC LTD - both well looked after.
Yesterday a burgundy EL XR6.
Day before a unrestored XB GS. (See it occasionally getting around)
There's also an old duck getting around in unrestored ZK Fairlane near me.

[Trendseeker]

There are a few different figures around on Holden build numbers. Drive and News seem to agree on the HQ as the biggest selling Holden and the VT as the biggest selling Commodore.

Drive said:
“485,650: The biggest selling Holden of all time, the HQ Kingswood, made from 1971 to 1974.
303,895: The biggest selling Commodore of all time, the VT series, made from 1997 to 2000.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/holden...ws-since-1948/

News said: “The VT was the biggest selling Commodore model of all time, with a staggering 303,895 built over almost three years. However, that’s still not as high as the HQ Kingswood (485,650) in the 1970s.”

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...73e59e92554186

Carsguide offered this opinion as to why the VT was so successful: “ It also helped that the Falcon of the day was regarded as ugly, prompting buyers to flock to the Commodore in droves.”

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...he-years-35814

[FTE217]

just for some numbers seeing posts about X model and popularity.
I got one of my office members to do some quick rego numbers that also incls NZ.
These are the VIO's on some random model mixs mentioned that are confirmed registered :

HQ's all 7,014
VE/VF incl HSV's 426,261.
XF/XG/XH utes 10,717
AU all incl TSeries 53,514
BSeries up to FGX incl FPV's 348,308.

Enjoy.

[XR Martin]

Holden spent more on beefing up the Opel Rekord chassis than what it would have been to start from scratch apparently.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Holden spent more on beefing up the Opel Rekord chassis than what it would have been to start from scratch apparently.

Pretty sure the IRS setup on the VS-VZ is under spec for what it has to deal with up front.

It's common to break the IRS cradle causing wheel alignment problems from VS all the way through to VZ.

Surprised mine hasn't yet given I basically blew one rear tyre off it at every given opportunity

[Franco Cozzo]

The ZB was a half assed damage control attempt from Holden, thinking we're stupid enough to think that just because something wears the same name that Australia will buy ZB 'Commodore' hand over fist.

Even though it's a mid sized wrong wheel driver, or maybe it was a deliberate sabotage to help GM justify its pull out of ALL RHD markets globally.

Who remembers the damage control ads from Holden about we're not leaving

Mind you this clown didn't exactly help



Biggest leaner on tax payer payroll

[FTE217]

The IRS was a debacle from VN onwards.
HSV’s had a lot of neg camber owners didn’t know their rear tyres were worn to the steel belts by 10thou clicks.
It’s was crap period.
That Buick v6 was a POS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rare ss]

Originally Posted by FTE217

The IRS was a debacle from VN onwards.
HSV’s had a lot of neg camber owners didn’t know their rear tyres were worn to the steel belts by 10thou clicks.
It’s was crap period.
That Buick v6 was a POS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

*VP onward

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by rare ss

*VP onward

VQ was the first factory IRS equipped version if you want to get picky.

Or Brocks VL Calais Director.

[rare ss]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

VQ was the first factory IRS equipped version if you want to get picky.

Or Brocks VL Calais Director.

The main reason GMH cut ties with Brock/HDT was the IRS fitment as it wasn't ADR approved, the Polarizer was just the easy target

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

The IRS was a debacle from VN onwards.
HSV’s had a lot of neg camber owners didn’t know their rear tyres were worn to the steel belts by 10thou clicks.
It’s was crap period.
That Buick v6 was a POS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nah, I got love for the Buick V6, 10 minute alternator change and robust - trade off is NVH.

Mang mang mang mang

That thing was the P plater weapon of the 2000s through to circa 2015.

Cheap to maintain, buy parts from IGA, hell drive in drive out less than a thousand bucks for a new AC compressor, receiver dryer, TX Valve and a regas to blow 2 degrees C out the vents so you can grow stalactites from your *** in summer.

IRS setup a bit halal but hey it beat Ford to it by circa decade, just like how they beat Ford to the punch with climate control.