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#1 | ||
Compulsive Hobbiest
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,032
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I am copying and pasting a post I made at a local message board (local to me in Ohio).
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...vrolet-cruze/1 GM wants all UAW workers at Michigan plant at half-pay rate Trying to defy the industry maxim that small cars mean small profits, General Motors wants to pay all workers at the plant where it makes its new Chevrolet Cruze compact about half the wages that some other unionized workers earn. The plan drew about 100 protesters outside UAW union headquarters in Detroit over the weekend, Automotive News reported. Already, the UAW and GM management have agreed that about 40% of the workers at the Orion Township, Mich., plant will make about half of the $28-an-hour wage that so-called tier-one workers earn, the Detroit Free Press says. Besides the Cruze, the plant will also make the Buick Verano, another compact car. Lower wage scales for new hires is only the start. Eventually, GM wants to transfer all big-earners out of the plant to make way for only the lower-paid workers: "We have become 'red circle,' " Mike Dunn, who heads the UAW local at the plant, said in a video to members seen by the Free Press. "No other tier ones will be able to transfer into Orion." GM says creating a plant with workers at lower wages than the rest of GM is necessary to reduce costs to the point that small cars become profitable again. For long, Detroit's Big 3 automakers either have had a choice of making small cars at a loss in the U.S. or at a profit in Mexico, South Korea or other lower-wage markets. But Detroit makers may no longer have a choice. As tighter restrictions on fuel efficiency force automakers to produce smaller cars, there will be fewer big, high-profit vehicles that can be made in the U.S. In the past, concessions like this one from the UAW would have been hard to imagine. But the UAW gave in during GM's financial troubles that culminated in its bankruptcy reorganization filing last year. The Free Press says: UAW agreements allow GM to use the second-tier wage in an entire facility. The landmark agreement that allowed for the use of a two-tier wage called for a 25% companywide cap on lower-wage workers starting in 2015, but didn't put caps on individual plants. Orion workers who accept offers from GM to work in Lordstown, Ohio, will help pave the way for all the workers at the Orion plant to be paid a lower, second-tier wage. Many Orion workers who were laid off at the UAW's $28 first-tier wage received letters this week offering them a first-tier job at General Motors' Chevrolet Cruze compact car plant 250 miles away in Lordstown, said Pat Sweeney, president of UAW Local 5960 in Orion. The Lordstown plant has 375 assembly and stamping jobs open, Sweeney said, although he did not know how many Orion workers were offered jobs. .................................................. .................................................. ............... I know somebody here works at the Lordstown plant. This affects you directly and I have a couple questions. Does Lordstown have a flexible body shop? Are you also building a Buick vehicle off of the Cruze platform? If the answer is "No" to either or both of those questions, here is something else to ponder. If you have two plants building the exact same vehicle, and one has 1/2 the wages of the other, which would you keep/expand? This is why we voted NO on giving up the right to strike at Ford. Ford has not had a major strike since the early 1980's or the late 1970's. Why now do they want us to give that up? This article screams why from mountain tops. GM had a strike in 1970 and not again until 2007 when they struck at 80 plants in 30 States "....because General Motors was unwilling to accept the union's demand that it protect workers' jobs and benefits. " Now GM is nailing the workers and the workers cannot do a thing about it this time. From the same article of the strike in 2007..... For General Motors, its unyielding stance reflects its decision to accept the short-term pain of a strike at 80 facilities in 30 states to achieve its goals: a lower cost structure and more flexible work force to better compete against surging Japanese automakers like Toyota and Honda. ''This really is a defining moment,'' said James P. Womack, an expert on manufacturing and co-author of ''The Machine That Changed the World,'' which studied the plants of Japanese automakers in the United States. ''G.M. has backed away from defining moments for generations. And now somebody there has finally said, 'We have to do this because it's a new era.' '' Well GM got what it wanted now and the beginning has begun. You know Ford and Chrysler will want the same thing, however, while Ford is making regular profit, and the workers have already given up everything else that GM workers have, the UAW workers at Ford will NOT accept giving up the right to strike. Ford has also said that they can now make money on small cars, and that's why the new Focus is being built in Michigan. Food for thought. This is a big hit to wages in the US falling, as if they haven't fallen generally enough. Steve
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#2 | |||
Donating Member
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Location: Morayfield
Posts: 27,939
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Quote:
I wonder where it will end
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I love Holdens.... |
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#3 | |||
Compulsive Hobbiest
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,032
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Quote:
Maybe when there's no one left who can buy the stuff?
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,150
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funny most of these companies made and continue to make there money with BRAND LOYALTY,,now GM thinks by destroying that ,they will go ahead into the future, trouble is they will have a whole workforce that wont be able to afford that same important brand loyalty and neither will the whole town around where they are built as the flow on effect of belt tightening will put all surrounding business;s up against the wall.
The old saying of (cant see the woods cause of the tree's ) comes to mind
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South east Melbourne
Posts: 1,790
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bring back the tariffs
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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sounds like stand over tactics to me, sign up for that job , and its do as we tell you, work for half wages and "keep your mouth shut or else".
i thought Goverment Motors was makeing a profit, are they getting GREEDY? |
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#7 | ||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
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Little wonder the US economy is stagnating.
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Thundering on.... |
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#8 | ||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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interesting. quite a big drop. from approx 58k to 29k
What is the skill level of the workers affected? What is the average US wage?
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#9 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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Location: TAS
Posts: 27,566
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And this from a company part owned by the government?
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#10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,312
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They are getting pwned by the japanese manufacturers, but aren't japanese wages at a similar level? Sounds like an excuse to move offshore to low wage countries.
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#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 589
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Quote:
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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It never ceases to amaze me how CEOs and board members of major companies are paid a disgusting amount of money, yet the first thing you always see them do it either sack people or try and lower their wages.....
Profits and share prices are what is number one on their minds, nothing else....
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#13 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 245
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Quote:
I hate the corporate world....... |
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#14 | |||
Mot Adv-NSW
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 2,153
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Quote:
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ORDER FORD AUSTRALIA PART NO: AM6U7J19G329AA. This is a European-UN/AS3790B Spec safety-warning triangle used to give advanced warning to approaching traffic of a vehicle breakdown, or crash scene (to prevent secondary). Stow in the boot area. See your Ford dealer for this $35.95 safety item & when you buy a new Ford, please insist on it! See Page 83, part 4.4.1 http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/media...eSafePart4.pdf |
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#15 | |||
Donating Member
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Location: Morayfield
Posts: 27,939
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Quote:
The sad thing is that some of the biggest shareholders are pension plans of workers in the USA, Aus etc. Kind of ironic, isn't it. I really don't see an answer apart from government regulation ie tariffs.
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I love Holdens.... |
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#16 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,022
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Getting on my soapbox for a moment:
Actually you can't give up your right to strike just your right to do so with the sanction of the law or without penalty. As has been show over and over in history, he right to strike or withdraw one's labor is one of the few basic human rights that cannot easily be controlled or corruptly manipulated. Witness the success of the Polish Gdańsk Shipyard action and solidarity movement led by Lech Wałęsa against a puppet Soviet supported Government.
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regards Blue |
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#17 | ||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Location: Bibra Lake WA
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In addition Article 8 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR),s a multilateral treaty adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on December 16, 1966, and in force from January 3, 1976 recognises the right of workers to form or join trade unions and protects the right to strike. It allows these rights to be restricted for members of the armed forces, police, or government administrators.
Nonetheless several parties have placed reservations on this clause, allowing it to be interpreted in a manner consistent with their constitutions (China, Mexico), or extending the restriction of union rights to groups such as fire-fighters (Japan). In regard to the United States - Amnesty International writes that: Quote:
Also from here: http://www.bookrags.com/research/int...conomic--gwcr/ Quote:
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#18 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
I can see the pay issue from both sides. From GM's view, they simply cannot sustain paying line workers that kind of money. 58k is good money even here. While the cost of living is going up, many companies are not able to cope with the rising salaries hence many offshore their work. When and where will it stop? Something needs to be done now. Sure it won't be popular but if it can keep a few more people in work why not? It will happen here more too. The problem is too many see the salaries of a select few CEOs and think they should be on the same or the CEO should have their pay cut. That's fine, but what some don't realise is the work that many CEOs do. Too many just hear the bad stories of a select few corrupt ones. What about Alan Mullaly? His Ford value is quite large but does anyone here complain? No because of the job he has done. Being a CEO isn't always as glamorous as people think, it involves a lot of long days, a lot of time away from the family, etc. Their decisions affect the companies success. Do you really think you could get an Alan Mullaly for pittance? Of course not. In my opinion salaries should be performance based. You are paid what your job involves, your qualifications and how well you perform. If you're mediocre, just turn up every day, why should you deserve a pay rise? You're employer shouldn't be bullied into giving pay rises. I know what I have said won't be popular and I do expect to have upset a few people.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#19 | ||
Compulsive Hobbiest
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,032
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I have not met any Ford workers at the plant I work at or the plant my wife works at that have a problem with what Mulally gets paid, and has been paid. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. As far as I am concerned, Ford Motor Company exists anywhere in the world today because of him.
Yes, the workers still have the right to organize and to strike. As organized labor they also have the right to bargain for most things about their job. The Federal Government stated to GM, if they were to get the bail out money certain criteria would have to be met. There was a list for Management and there was a list for Labor. One of the things on that list was that the UAW accept suspending the right to strike for 5 (I believe) years. The UAW members approved this, along with the rest of the requested concessions. Ford UAW members also approved all the concessions that the GM and Chrysler workers did, except for the suspension of the right to strike and one other thing, which I cannot remember at the moment. However, these concessions were given to Ford by the UAW members BEFORE GM and Chrysler we requested to do so. It was a demonstration by the UAW at Ford of the acknoweldgement of the situation in the industry, as opposed to GM and Chysler workers where it was an accepted condition of bail out money. Over the past 10 years wages have been going down in the US. This has been a result of many factors: More workers than jobs and people taking what they can get, and employers know this. The threat of offshoring jobs to cheap labor. The numerous times labor HAS been offshored to cheap countries. NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) which was supposed to open up easier trade between Canada, the US, and Mexico, and help raise the wages and living standard in Mexico. Yeah, like that was really going to happen. American jobs went to Mexico and then went to China as China openned to the West. Americans were making too much money, but could afford the products, then the Mexicans who replaced the Americans were making too much money (1.25 US/hr.) when China openned up so they lost their jobs and US companies went to China. Now China has so much work wages have increased to $1 US and sometimes more. Now work is leaving China, where they make too much, and going to Viet Nam. I am sure something similar is happening in Australia. As far as the assembly line workers, I can tell you at Ford, by the time you have been there 10 years Ford has spent another $10,000 US in training for you. These are things such as understanding continuous improvement, quality work processes, safety, error proofing, other safety classes, other quality classes and techniques, and more. These are not "trained monkeys" as some have called them here (in the US). They just make it look easy because they have done it so much. Nobody retires from the line unscathed. People have knees replaced, vertebrea fused, carpal tunnel surgery, hips replaced, braces they will wear the rest of their lives, limps, loss of range of movement, and more. Everybody ends up with something. However, $28/hr is worth it, to most. To do this work and end up with these injuries for $14/hr? Hell no! The UAW uses a guideline for how level pay is. Back in the 1970's or 80's the top brass on average made 30 times what an assembly line worker made. So let's say the worker made $8/hr. This would mean that top brass was compensated equal to $240.hr. Well, they are running a corporation and are probably worth that. Today (2010) the top brass average is 300 times more than the line worker. So is someone being paid too much or is someone being paid too little? All I know is, changing the wage to $14/hr is going to increase that difference even more. In the southern part of the country wages are lower. I won't speculate why, I will just state that fact. Most of the foreign car companies who have built plants here in the past 10 - 15 years have built them in the south for this reason. Their workers are paid about $14/hr. In the northern US wages are higher, typically. Even in foreign plants that have built in the north the wages are higher; about $18 at some, $29 at others, including Toyota. Politicians like to point to the lower wage ones in the south (mostly foriegn owned plants) and say "See? They can do it a lot cheaper!" Well, most companies making anything can do it cheaper there.......but.....you also get what you pay for, which may be why US car manufacturers don't build very far south. That's all I've got for now. Steve
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Come off it seriously... they arent saving lives.... Yet your giving high praise for being a manager. How many people can walk away from their job with a million dallar hand shake? or vote themselves a pay rise?? How much money did MR Mexican Sol (Truillo ?) get paid after he left Telstra? How many people did he sack? Do you honeslty believe these type of people have the best interests of the workers of that company at heart or their own back pockets? As an example our town clerk (Re-tittled "CEO" of the Council) earns over $330 000 PA... this is more then the mayor and more then the PRime Minister of the country. How is this value for money for the local residents? Paying people a gross amount for a "mangers" job is obscene to those who do the work or actually contibute something to the community. Like "professional" sports people who are also grossly over paid, yet there is never any money to be found for Hospitals or giving our Doctor and Nurses a pay rise...
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#21 | ||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
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Your CEO of the local council is probably responsible for a couple hundred million dollars worth of spending each year. Do you really want a monkey?
Same goes for all forms of government though. The head of the ATO would be on a lot more than the PM.
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Thundering on.... |
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#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide Nthn suburbs
Posts: 546
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Maybe, killing off half the executive staff would have the same financial effect.
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Quote: Originally Posted by XCPWSF Is there portable speed cameras? Because coming home from school I noticed a cop sitting on the corner, with some box with buttons and knobs, with wires running into one of the big gum trees. Just practicing with the Tazer on a Koala? |
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,051
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Quote:
How many councils invested in US sub-prime? How many lost a packet? How many have gouged rate-payers to make up the short-fall? How many council CEOs heads rolled for the above? |
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#24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,051
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Quote:
Some imply that if you're responsible for more $$$, you should get paid more. The flaw with that argument is that while they may be responsible for what happens to those $$$, they're not LIABLE for them. The reward is going up well in excess of the risk. And let's not assume that because we pay millions we get good CEOs. Sol Trujillo for example, was one of the worst CEO Telstra has had, yet he still made a killing. |
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#25 | |||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
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Quote:
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Thundering on.... |
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#26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,868
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Quote:
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#27 | |||
.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,197
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Quote:
The bit I do take issue with is "what is doing a great job?". Now, C-Level operators are retained on short tenure. Their outlook is only as far as the next reporting period to appease shareholders and be able to deliver a result that justifies their existence and bonus. There lays the problem. The core of the issue is not in having a greedy CEO, it is in having millions of shareholders that will get rid of him unceromoniously if the hard truth doesn't suit their investment strategy, wants and needs. If he doesn't jump through the hoop, he is out on his ear except in the rarest but most publicised of cases. Privately held companies suffer less from these issues because the investment made is usually done so by fewer people whose entire strategy is the longterm success of that company - not a pretty picture to appease the masses who are really only focussed on how to exit their postion either at a profit or before the whole show falls off a cliff. Tis one of the failings of our capitalist world... not that I'm not all for capitalism ![]() |
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#28 | |||
Compulsive Hobbiest
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,032
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Quote:
Thanks. Yeah, I never thought I would have full appreciation for one of the top brass. However, I have a lot of repect for Derrick Kuzak as well. I know his background, have followed his career since being brought back from Europe, and have exchanged a number of emails with him. I look forward to taking him for a ride in my Mad Max Interceptor when it is done. I am also thankful for Mark fields as well, though at a lower level. Mulally is not the typical CEO where it is about him. Sure, Mulally gets plenty, but he feels he's earned it (not just "deserves it" because he is CEO), and mostly, I firmly believe it is about the challenge for him, and also the concern for an American icon. He's a real person, not the stereotype we think of when it comes to CEO's. How many times was he baited in interviews to slam GM and Chrysler? His only response....."At Ford we're doing some great things and we've got some amazing products coming that I think you are really going to love." That's my man! Now, will "my man" come after my pay? Yup. I can't like EVERYTHING about somebody, LOL. One thing I would like to remind Mr. Mulally; when Henry Ford said "A company will not prosper if its employees cannot afford to buy the product they are making." Well, you cannot afford a house payment/rent and a new car on $14/hr in the US. Maybe a single person who has nothing could, but not a married couple. Skilled trades, college degreed people, and people with extensive experience are all getting their wages lowered. The only people to truely prosper anymore are top company brass. We are going back to a two level community, the rich and the poor. The middle class, who pays most of the taxes, are going away. Then who will pay for all the social programs that Obama and the Democrats want? Steve
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My Filmmaking Career Website Latest Project: Musclin' My XB Interceptor project Wife's 1966 Mustang My Artworks and Creative Projects Site Oil Paintings, Airbrushing, Metal Sculpture, Custom Cars, Replica Movie Props, Videos, and more! |
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#29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,215
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Is it not that the foreign companies like Toyota when building cars in the USA are different to GM & Ford in that the whole unionisation system is different for them.
So Toyota Nissan ect are way better off or in a healthier position to perform. If i am right one of the problems is that the unions have been strangling the companies with so much added expense. |
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#30 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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Quote:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ghlight=toyota
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Daniel |
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