Stop Start Technology

[Peterwl]

I am looking to update my two cars for different uses. One for the local short range commutes, and a Sunday / Big trip drive.

I was all set to get a new Mazda 3 auto until I realised it had Stop Start technology that you cannot permanently disable, only disable per trip.

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I definitely do not want any new car with this madness in it.

It appears all the current new Euros and Japanese cars have it !

Maybe this is a reason to buy a current Falcon or Commodore as they do not have it !

Any one know of a list of current cars that do NOT have it ?

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

I am looking to update my two cars for different uses. One for the local short range commutes, and a Sunday / Big trip drive.

I was all set to get a new Mazda 3 auto until I realised it had Stop Start technology that you cannot permanently disable, only disable per trip.

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I definitely do not want any new car with this madness in it.

It appears all the current new Euros and Japanese cars have it !

Maybe this is a reason to buy a current Falcon or Commodore as they do not have it !

Any one know of a list of current cars that do NOT have it ?

That's a BIG list. Far more cars without stop start then with I'd say. Anything Ford and Ecoboost engined, you can't go wrong. Google is your friend too

[new2ford]

These systems are also available on manual cars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-stop_system

[ratter]

Madness?

[4vxc]

its no big deal to turn off just push a button
also the Mazda system ( auto or manual ) wont activate if you don't press the brake pedal too hard while the car is idling
If your in the market for a car like a Mazda 3 its doubtful you would consider a Falcon or Commodore

[richo77]

uploadfromtaptalk1429314011463.jpeg

[mik]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

I am looking to update my two cars for different uses. One for the local short range commutes, and a Sunday / Big trip drive.

I was all set to get a new Mazda 3 auto until I realised it had Stop Start technology that you cannot permanently disable, only disable per trip.

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I definitely do not want any new car with this madness in it.

It appears all the current new Euros and Japanese cars have it !

Maybe this is a reason to buy a current Falcon or Commodore as they do not have it !

Any one know of a list of current cars that do NOT have it ?

I think on the same wave length Peterwl, i like the idea of keeping it simple engineering .
if i need a rocket scientist to do a clutch ............. or to see a bank manager every time a major service comes up....... i do not want it.

[2011G6E]

Sometimes I honestly think it's technology for technologies sake...just to look trendy.

When we got the new model Prados at work a few years back, we all noticed one interesting thing. The "old" Prado had a traditional physical lever on the floor to move from high range to low range 4x4. It was a mechanical connection to the box, wobbling slightly as the car idled. Our Triton has the same thing by the way.
Then the "new" Prado came out, and it had a knob to turn to do the same job...and we all immediately started considering what was involved.
On one vehicle you had a simple lever. On the newer one there was a dial...with a complex multi-function switch unit behind it...with circuitry behind that...with meters of wiring...with a computer somewhere controlling it...with servo motors on the gearbox...with mechanisms to select low or high range from that servo...

So many more levels of things that can possibly go wrong, and all for no real good reason...there wasn't any more interior space, there was just one less gear lever.


Stop start is a toss...nothing more. You would have to be doing a lot of stop start driving to see even the tiniest benefit...you'd probably get a better economy increase by just making sure your tyres are inflated correctly and your car is serviced properly...

[ratter]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You would have to be doing a lot of stop start driving to see even the tiniest benefit...you'd probably get a better economy increase by just making sure your tyres are inflated correctly and your car is serviced properly...

something which many people do not do

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Sometimes I honestly think it's technology for technologies sake...just to look trendy.

When we got the new model Prados at work a few years back, we all noticed one interesting thing. The "old" Prado had a traditional physical lever on the floor to move from high range to low range 4x4. It was a mechanical connection to the box, wobbling slightly as the car idled. Our Triton has the same thing by the way.
Then the "new" Prado came out, and it had a knob to turn to do the same job...and we all immediately started considering what was involved.
One one vehicle you had a simple lever. On the newer one there was a dial...with a complex multi-function switch unit behind it...with circuitry behind that...with meters of wiring...with a computer somewhere controlling it...with servo motors on the gearbox...with mechanisms to select low or high range from that servo...

So many more levels of things that can possibly go wrong, and all for no real good reason...there wasn't any more interior space, there was just one less gear lever.


Stop start is a toss...nothing more. You would have to be doing a lot of stop start driving to see even the tiniest benefit...you'd probably get a better economy increase by just making sure your tyres are inflated correctly and your car is serviced properly...

Funny you mention that about the Prado because just the other day I was speaking to a guy with a current model and he mentioned his is in for warranty due to the actuator for the dual range fuction being buggered.

I was a bit surprised when he first started telling me the story as every Prado I had driven had the mechanic shifter arrangement.



BTW the only purpose of the stop start fuction is to easily drop a few .1/100km on the official urban economy rating. Part of the test is 10minutes (not sure the exact amount of time, might be more) of idling to simulate being stationary at traffic lights.
So if a car is stopped during that test then it obviously it shaves a significant amount off the economy rating with little effort from the manufacturer.

In reality it achieves very little real World economy benefit; stuff like driving style, route choice, tyre pressure, junk in the boot, roof racks etc are a much greater influence on economy.

[fourl6]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I was surprised when looking at Ford Kuga's last year, the base model manual has it but not the autos

Redbook - 2014 TF Kuga Ambiente FWD Manual

Engine - Stop Start System (When at idle)

[BradEL]

Stop start technology has to be one of the stupidest features on cars these days. Just pointless...

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by richo77

Attachment 87423

Snap into it!!!

[Sioso]

My wife's CX5 has it, just a push button you need to hit after starting.
No different to turning traction control off on any of my cars in the past so it doesn't bother me.

[Mr Brooksy]

Was riding in a Mercedes C Class last week with it installed. When it engaged, you could not tell it was off (exhaust note was almost dead silent when driving), but when the lights went green and my friend went to take off, the car acted stupid for about half a second, kinda like an L plater doing a mini bunny hop in grandma's old manual Excel!

Seriously if the Germans cant make this thing seemless then... who can?

I've been wondering since, how much undue stress is put through the driveline just to save a Litre or 2 each tank (city driving)? Not something that I want to have to deal with when warrenty ends!

[4vxc]

[QUOTE=Mr Brooksy;5375656]Was riding in a Mercedes C Class last week with it installed. When it engaged, you could not tell it was off (exhaust note was almost dead silent when driving), but when the lights went green and my friend went to take off, the car acted stupid for about half a second, kinda like an L plater doing a mini bunny hop in grandma's old manual Excel!

Seriously if the Germans cant make this thing seemless then... who can?

the Japanese

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

Seriously if the Germans cant make this thing seemless then... who can?

I've driven several BMWs with it and you don't even notice it, except that the car is completely silent at stops. It starts again in a fraction of a second, completely seamless. There are Germans and there are Germans. Maybe the Merc was a Freitag build

That said, I'm not a fan of it, living in the country. I can understand its benefit in city peak traffic.

[You Yangs]

Stupid idea in Australia, when stopped whats going to drive the AC compressor? Our climate is mostly warm than cool like Europe. On a 40 degree day you would quickly sweat your *** off

[nadojay]

My wife has one of the new mazda 3s and its a great car but the start/stop is annoying because it switches off the aircon which in fnq sucks

[bangm001]

OK guys, just bought the missus a brand new mazda 6 about a month ago. YOU CAN drive it without it ever turning off. If you lightly brake when holding the car at the lights it DOES NOT switch off. You have to apply more pressure on the brake pedal for it to activate the I stop.

[Blem]

The Mazda 3 has an awful lot of road noise.
We drove the Mistubishi Lancer GSR hatchback.
Creamed the Mazda.
2.4lt engine more kw & nm.
18inch alloys.
5 yr warranty.
The list goes on.
The only thing Mazda has over the Mitsubishi is it looks better.

Has anyone else seen the advert Adam Gilchrist.
That adverts states on average he will stop / start 18000 times in a year.
That's a lot of wear & tear on a starter motor.
Want to be a REALLY GOOD warranty on it...

[4vxc]

the starter motor isn't used to restart the engine
there is info here somewhere about how the Mazda system works

[AndyXR6T]

I was literally wondering what the world had come only just a few hours because of this exact topic. I was sitting at a set of lights with about 4 other cars surrounding me, when the light turned green I heard 3 of the cars start back up using this technology. We sat at the lights for no more than 20 seconds.... Is this technology justifiable? Is 20 seconds of 0 fuel consumption better than that of increased starter motor etc wear on engine components?

[nitro50th]

We have a current model Mazda3 SP25 with a manual gear box and the stop/start never really comes into play.

For it to activate on manual 3's you need to have the car in neutral and your foot off the clutch pedal. So you can decide at the lights or in heavy traffic if you want it to activate by just chucking it into neutral and taking your foot off the clutch pedal. As soon as you put pressure on the clutch pedal the engine starts up again.

In my normal driving it just doesn't happen, which was a big plus for as we drove an auto version and it quickly got annoying.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by AndyXR6T

I was literally wondering what the world had come only just a few hours because of this exact topic. I was sitting at a set of lights with about 4 other cars surrounding me, when the light turned green I heard 3 of the cars start back up using this technology. We sat at the lights for no more than 20 seconds.... Is this technology justifiable? Is 20 seconds of 0 fuel consumption better than that of increased starter motor etc wear on engine components?

I suppose I have less of a concern about it now than I would in a few years time...

...when your battery starts to get a bit iffy...

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by You Yangs

Stupid idea in Australia, when stopped whats going to drive the AC compressor? Our climate is mostly warm than cool like Europe. On a 40 degree day you would quickly sweat your *** off

The aircon keeps going, just slightly reduced.

And it gets very hot in Europe too!

[Silver Ghia]

I was following this new red VW Golf GTi a few weeks ago, and at each traffic light when stopped there was a few seconds delay before he got going again after the car in front of him started moving. Once this GTi got going again, he went at full acceleration to catch up again to the car in front.

Whether it was the stop start starting the engine each time, maybe he was on his mobile or something else distracting him or a combination of the two, but it was really annoying considering I anticipate the traffic in front and move off with the vehicle in front (no lag). And how much fuel would he have saved with stop start if he had to accelerate fast to catch up again, rather than accelerate moderately along with the rest of the traffic?

[66FAIRLANE]

Hired a Golf with it a few weeks ago. Didn't know what was going on at first, then found the disable button. Problem solved.

[richo77]

Originally Posted by nadojay

My wife has one of the new mazda 3s and its a great car but the start/stop is annoying because it switches off the aircon which in fnq sucks

It wont switch off the car if its hot enough in mazda 3

[99AUXR]

Aren't the new rangers getting stop start, thought I read something on here. Along with electric power assist.