Covid 19 -

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Perhaps reference to the government's restrictions will help clarify the situation with respect to mask wearing in Vic:

• You must carry a face mask with you when you leave home.
• Wearing a face mask is only mandatory on public transport, while in taxis or ride share vehicles, or when going to large retail venues, including shopping centres, supermarkets and department stores.
• Wearing a face mask is strongly recommended indoors and outdoors when you can’t keep 1.5 metres distance from other people.

So, you do not need to wear a mask in a smaller store, where you can maintain 1.5m distance from other people. I get that it seems strange to have to wear a mask in a shopping centre or supermarket, but not your local butcher, for eg. But, I think this is just a risk based approach. Larger store are likely to have more people pass through them. Therefore, if someone is C-19 infected in that environment, they are likely to spread C-19 to more people than if someone was infected in a smaller shop.

I do appreciate that not wearing of masks will not prevent infection in smaller stores, should someone be CV-19 infected, but the numbers exposed to it are likely to be much less than larger, more attended stores.

Seems like a reasonable approach to me.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

So, you do not need to wear a mask in a smaller store, where you can maintain 1.5m distance from other people. I get that it seems strange to have to wear a mask in a shopping centre or supermarket, but not your local butcher, for eg. But, I think this is just a risk based approach. Larger store are likely to have more people pass through them.

I believe the principle is, if you are in an environment that is not feasible to enforce QR coding for track and trace later on, then mask is required.

So shopping malls, where thousands of people are going in and out each day, would be impossible to enforce QR coding for every single customer, hence mask required. Small shops, where attendants can monitor and enforce customers coming in to QR code, no mask required.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Small shops, where attendants can monitor and enforce customers coming in to QR code, no mask required.

Been to quite a few small shops lately. Some have QR code. Some have a pen and paper where you have to fill in your name/phone number.

None of them are enforced. At all.

I don't feel comfortable with writing down my name and phone number. I haven't scanned QR at entry on a few occasions. There was no 'enforcing' by the shop attendant even though they were well aware that I hadn't filled in the form or scanned QR code. Maybe because I was wearing a mask?

The one time I didn't wear a mask, it was like I was glowing bright green with a death virus the way she overreacted. Scared the crap out of me!

Most small shops in VIC still display 'NO MASK NO ENTRY' signs at the door. Can a private shop owner overrule a government rule?

[Polyal]

We are coming down for 5 days and will mask up when in stores etc.

Will also remember to wash hands and/or sanitize as we go around. It takes 30 seconds so its not too hard.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT December 13th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

6 new cases for Australia and 0 deaths so the CMR drops to 3.269%. NSW recorded 3 cases, Victoria and WA recorded 1 reach.

4 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.193% and active cases drop to 56.

The UK had a lower 18,447 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 494 deaths.

Just over 220k new cases in the USA yesterday and 2,309 deaths sees CMR drop to 1.843% and active cases remain at 39.9% with the raw numbers rising and now over 6.5M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points: (it's a weekend again)
Asia passes 19M cases;
North America sets a new daily case high with 272,534 (11/12);
The USA completes 220M, India 153M, Turkey 21M, Denmark 8M, Pakistan & Israel 6M, Hungary 2M and M tests.

Uruguay (528) - 38% above the previous high;
Cyprus (625) - 49% above the previous high;
South Korea (1,030);
Japan (2,988); and
Azerbaijan (4,451);

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[russellw]

Here are a couple of graphs we haven't had for awhile.

First up, the continent based CMR where the global average is now down to 2.33%. Europe (2.3%), Oceania (2.22%) and Asia (1.64%) are all below that while South America (2.84%) has passed North America (2.34%) with the worst rate.



Next is the cases per 100k adult population for some selected countries. Globally, the average is 1,295.2 / 100k while Australia is 155.7 at the lower end and the USA is worst with over 8,000 / 100k, followed by Belgium (6,545) and Switzerland (5,319).



Deaths per 100k of population shows the global average now at 28.86/100k with Australia just over 5/100k and Belgium faring worst with 193/100k ahead of Italy (174.8) and the USA (146.6).



We have seen this one recently but the global case growth chart has been heading the wrong way for awhile now:



Last time we looked at the US modelling (only 10 days ago), we were predicting 18M cases by year end and 300k deaths. I've revised both models based on a less conservative number set, despite which the current case trend is still above my worst case model in which we'll likely see 20M cases by end of year. Actually, given we are currently at 16.8M and the 7 day average growth has been ~220k cases per day and there are 19 days left that would make roughly 4.2M cases and make the total closer to 21M. I'd expect a slight slowdown in identified cases during the Xmas break so that's likely to keep it closer to 20M.



We also predicted 300k deaths in the USA by year end but that total has already been surpassed so I've again revised the model. The current trend is now about level with the new upper predictive model, which shows ~340k deaths by year end and something like half a million by mid-February.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Jack91

I dont even understand the mask rules.
Went to servo, bunnings, autobarn, bottleo, petstock and chemist today.
Bunnings and chemist 100% masks.
Everywhere else 0%, staff included, think maybe one customer in autobarn had one on.
I guess im too dumb to understand the science involved in that.
Sidenote, sportsbet should be running a few bets on time until hotel quarantine gets messed up.
Id take a multi on 12 days, Andrews does 3 handballs before 2nd inquiry.

Hardly anyone understands them. It's only supposed to be mandatory in supermarkets, shopping malls, and large department stores. But how do you classify what is large, and what isn't?

I think a lot of people still think you have to wear them in any store. But seriously, what is the point. No cases for 45 days. No other states have mask rules, just drop it already.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Hardly anyone understands them. It's only supposed to be mandatory in supermarkets, shopping malls, and large department stores. But how do you classify what is large, and what isn't?

I think a lot of people still think you have to wear them in any store. But seriously, what is the point. No cases for 45 days. No other states have mask rules, just drop it already.

Just wear one in side until you’re told not to.

[Work Horse]

I like to wear a mask so I don't have to worry about brushing my teeth

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

I like to wear a mask so I don't have to worry about brushing my teeth

I would think that wearing a mask would remind you to brush your teeth

[danzvtil]

Today was the first day of compulsory checkin in SA, I was in and out of shops all day. The QR code was quick and easy. But my concern is the manual checkin on paper for non phone types, they are nothing more than incomprehensible scribble, and in Big W it is positioned at the BACK of the store ��

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Today was the first day of compulsory checkin in SA, I was in and out of shops all day. The QR code was quick and easy. But my concern is the manual checkin on paper for non phone types, they are nothing more than incomprehensible scribble, and in Big W it is positioned at the BACK of the store ��

I have never heard of anything like this over here in the US

well maybe at a hospital or summat but you'd be signing in there anyway if you were a patient anyway.

Signing in at a store?

What is the point of that level of tracing?

We had a thing last February right near me , a pharma company function that according to the news may have spawned 300,000 cases , it took them 10 months to tell us so of what use was all that tracing when you would feel sick a few days after infection?

If you give up that power to trace your movements to a government they will never give it back . No government can be trusted with that.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

I have never heard of anything like this over here in the US

well maybe at a hospital or summat but you'd be signing in there anyway if you were a patient anyway.

Signing in at a store?

What is the point of that level of tracing?

We had a thing last February right near me , a pharma company function that according to the news may have spawned 300,000 cases , it took them 10 months to tell us so of what use was all that tracing when you would feel sick a few days after infection?

If you give up that power to trace your movements to a government they will never give it back . No government can be trusted with that.

This is a good insight into America's woes, thanks.

The local governments can barely sort out car rego correctly.

AFAIK a business owner can do what they like, serve who they like if its all within the law.

If it was my own business, and I felt the need to make sure sign in/QR is mandatory then so be it, I am protecting my staff and potentially helping tracing in the event of an outbreak.

I dont actually put my real mobile number in if manually signing in, if poo hits the fan then I am fairly confident ol'Govco will find people easy enough.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

I have never heard of anything like this over here in the US

well maybe at a hospital or summat but you'd be signing in there anyway if you were a patient anyway.

Signing in at a store?

What is the point of that level of tracing?

We had a thing last February right near me , a pharma company function that according to the news may have spawned 300,000 cases , it took them 10 months to tell us so of what use was all that tracing when you would feel sick a few days after infection?

If you give up that power to trace your movements to a government they will never give it back . No government can be trusted with that.

It’s exactly that level of contact tracing and swift action that lifted SA out of even harsher prolonged lockdown. Quickly knowing where cases have been before it spreads is the reason SA will be able to visit family this Christmas.
God help the US,Biden will have to do something drastic to undo the damage the Cheeto in chief has wrought on the corona virus front.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Just wear one in side until you’re told not to.

More like don't wear one unless someone in the store says they require it. If they do, that's fine.

Stores should have a sign on the front door if they require you to wear a mask. JB Hi-fi did, so you put one on to go in. Other similar size stores have nothing, so just assume they don't require one unless you are asked. Jeez it can't be that difficult can it?

[PhilT2]

We all willingly carry a tracking device with us which allows the govt to find us anytime they want. It also keeps a record of where we have been. If you think signing into a store is going to give the govt information they don't already have then you are living in the last century.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

We all willingly carry a tracking device with us which allows the govt to find us anytime they want. It also keeps a record of where we have been. If you think signing into a store is going to give the govt information they don't already have then you are living in the last century a state of delusion.

Amended for accuracy.

[wodahs]

yer min wage is to wrestle some one to the ground ! good way to hype it up
donno bout your back water maccas store but for a small nation we generally have quite a few workers at our stores usually consiting of a few managers , and their first responce to an issue is to refuse service and ask to leave then call the cops , not wrestle to the ground

disclaimer i for one dont like giving any info i dont need to even to the cops

the gov has been advertising they are asking this to happen so not expecting it when entering a store is unlikely , so like me dont go to them , thete are other optionso
yes it can hurt the store , which isnt your problem when asked to fill out the book or leave

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by wodahs

yer min wage is to wrestle some one to the ground ! good way to hype it up
donno bout your back water maccas store but for a small nation we generally have quite a few workers at our stores usually consiting of a few managers , and their first responce to an issue is to refuse service and ask to leave then call the cops , not wrestle to the ground

disclaimer i for one dont like giving any info i dont need to even to the cops

the gov has been advertising they are asking this to happen so not expecting it when entering a store is unlikely , so like me dont go to them , thete are other optionso
yes it can hurt the store , which isnt your problem when asked to fill out the book or leave

Ya like our cops come if you call them

Anyway , the manager of every store would be calling at least 5 times a day.

We have angry covid warriors on both sides. The never maskers who go into stores unmasked looking to start drama and film it on the phone, and the karens that scold random strangers .

The scolds are usually women. I was in a walmart the other day asking the electronics dude if they had any wifi signal boosters , the kind that plug into an outlet to extend the router signal to the other end of your house.

Some chick literally runs over to us and points at an old man you has a mask but his nose is out. "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT!!!!' she wants the old man arrested or something for daring to have the tip of his nose out.

I pulled my mask down and wheezed at her and laughed . The worker looked at me like oh jesus here we go again

It happens all the time !

The same store I'm walking up to the door a different day , pulling my mask on and this woman walking out pulls hers off and looks at me and says "I HATE THESE F##King masks! " I'm like do I know you?

I wasn't interacting with her , maybe she thought she recognized me or whatever. Why tell me your problem lady?

Whatever minimal level of politeness we had is down around 0.0 now.

[FairmontGS]

We are travelling back from a family gathering @ Nagambie in central Victoria - it was a party town. No masks, QR codes/sign-ins at venues but no really enforced, hand sanitiser bottles often empty, huge BBQs at the holiday park and some sort of market/party in the centre of town.

As soon as we crossed the Murray into Tocumwal things were strictly enforced again with each pub having a COVID Marshall, appropriate distancing and sign-ins enforced. More masks as well.

Happy to be back over the right side of the border.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

We are travelling back from a family gathering @ Nagambie in central Victoria - it was a party town. No masks, QR codes/sign-ins at venues but no really enforced, hand sanitiser bottles often empty, huge BBQs at the holiday park and some sort of market/party in the centre of town.

As soon as we crossed the Murray into Tocumwal things were strictly enforced again with each pub having a COVID Marshall, appropriate distancing and sign-ins enforced. More masks as well.

Happy to be back over the right side of the border.

Nothing enforced in QLD. I was at the convention centre on Saturday. I was asked if I had a ticket. "Yes". OK off you go.

I think you will find compliance is variable.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT December 14th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

9 new cases for Australia and 0 deaths so the CMR drops to 3.238%. NSW recorded 3 cases, Victoria, Queensland, SA, WA and the NT recorded 1 each.

No new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.193% and active cases remain at 56.

The UK had a higher 20,263 cases yesterday and -118 deaths after making (another) adjustment..

Just under 195k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,403 deaths sees CMR drop to 1.838% and active cases rise to 40.1% with the raw numbers rising and now over 6.7M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 73M with the last 1M taking 2 days;
South America passes 12M cases;
The USA completes 222M, India 154M, Russia 83M, UK 48M, Ukraine 5M and Hungary 2M tests.

Only Syria (136); and
Canada (8,119)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[PhilT2]

The shop owner can within limits, choose who he serves. There would be an issue if he refused service on the grounds you were black, gay, muslim, disabled or female. These are all covered by the Anti-discrimination Act. But kick you out for not wearing a mask, I'm sure he could.

One of the interesting stories on tracing the movement of people is the Skripal poisoning in the uk. Although the Russian agents had long gone, a picture of their movements was built up from airport, railway and shop cctv. Use of credit cards added to the picture. A full history of their every movement was developed. At great expense I presume.

I've had to adjust to the sad reality that the govt really does not give a rat's about me so
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what they know about me.

[Citroënbender]

I mistrust curation of data, as it may be grossly - yet convincingly - misrepresented should you wish to challenge incumbent authority (eg, pursue an elected office or defend a spurious allegation). I’d be less mistrustful if our data laws were bound as for EU members.

To return slightly to core topic, a neighbour’s brother (in the Irish Republic) is right at that seemingly pivotal 10-12th day stage with coronavirus, where it’ll either bite hard or start to mend. Apparently he’s overweight and underfit. Unsurprisingly, poor neighbour’s on edge.

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

The shop owner can within limits, choose who he serves. There would be an issue if he refused service on the grounds you were black, gay, muslim, disabled or female. These are all covered by the Anti-discrimination Act. But kick you out for not wearing a mask, I'm sure he could.

One of the interesting stories on tracing the movement of people is the Skripal poisoning in the uk. Although the Russian agents had long gone, a picture of their movements was built up from airport, railway and shop cctv. Use of credit cards added to the picture. A full history of their every movement was developed. At great expense I presume.

I've had to adjust to the sad reality that the govt really does not give a rat's about me so
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what they know about me.

The Skripal thing is fake news . Practically the plot of a movie . An entire country can just go shoot someone they don't like anytime they want. The theory that they would concoct a sharks with laser beams plot straight out of an Austin Powers movie that then predictably doesn't work is ridiculous

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

The Skripal thing is fake news . Practically the plot of a movie . An entire country can just go shoot someone they don't like anytime they want. The theory that they would concoct a sharks with laser beams plot straight out of an Austin Powers movie that then predictably doesn't work is ridiculous

So you definitely believe that govt's don't ever do anything stupid?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

So you definitely believe that govt's don't ever do anything stupid?

I don't think he actually said anything of the sort so don't try to hijack the discussion with your own agenda.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

I see NSW has recorded the state's first locally acquired coronavirus infection since a hotel quarantine worker tested positive at 1.30am on Thursday, December 3.

Mr Hazzard said the man "drives vans carrying international and other aircrew back and forth to the airport" and the company is based in Alexandria, in Sydney's inner city.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...-case/12988866

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

So you definitely believe that govt's don't ever do anything stupid?

I think if russia wants some guy dead they just shoot him with one bullet.

If the usa wants someone dead they use a 90,000 hellfire missile shot from a drone .

In fact the ridiculous over-complicated nature of this botched killing makes me think its probably a made in the USA false flag.

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

I think if russia wants some guy dead they just shoot him with one bullet.

In fact the ridiculous over-complicated nature of this botched killing makes me think its probably a made in the USA false flag.

Do you have any concept of plausible deniability? What do you think would happen if russians pulled out a gun and shot their intended target in a foreign country?

What is with americans who are unable to accept the scientifically-backed version of events and instead substitute their own fantasy-based version despite it going against all evidence? Does everything have to be a conspiracy?