Engine Conversion Advice

Ford Falcon XR6 · 10-05-2011, 10:43 PM

Hi Everyone

As the topic states i'm looking for a little advice on an engine conversion i've made the decision to put a V8 in my Xr6 Au3. Please no one say "JUST BUY ONE" cause that not what i want to do. I'm weighing up 2 options at the moment
1. Try to get my hands on a T3 motor (There is no real time limit the project as i've still got a little while left on my P's)
2. Get a 220 KW Xr8 or T2 motor and take the time and work the motor (i'm a mechanic so labor costs me nothing)

My questions are how much better is a T3 motor then a worked 220Kw motor ?? The car will be the daily drive so it still got to be civil to drive day to day. And what sort of power figures could i expect from a worked 220Kw ?? Not really interested in super or turbo charging at this point. The conversion is still a little while off but i will be looking at buying an engine and all the other thing i need towards the end of the year. So any input and advice would be a good help.

Cheers Lorenz

Day-mow · 10-05-2011, 11:30 PM

A mate had a 220 and said it wasn't as good as his 185. Go figure.

XR27 · 11-05-2011, 12:26 AM

Hi, i put a te50 sll 5lt in my au sll xr6 last year, no probs, but we had a compleat car to work from, there are lots of stuff to change. ive put on a Di Filippo full exhaust and had BPR tune it. iam happy to have gone with a 220.

JC · 11-05-2011, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Falcon XR6

Hi Everyone

As the topic states i'm looking for a little advice on an engine conversion i've made the decision to put a V8 in my Xr6 Au3. Please no one say "JUST BUY ONE" cause that not what i want to do. I'm weighing up 2 options at the moment
1. Try to get my hands on a T3 motor (There is no real time limit the project as i've still got a little while left on my P's)
2. Get a 220 KW Xr8 or T2 motor and take the time and work the motor (i'm a mechanic so labor costs me nothing)

My questions are how much better is a T3 motor then a worked 220Kw motor ?? The car will be the daily drive so it still got to be civil to drive day to day. And what sort of power figures could i expect from a worked 220Kw ?? Not really interested in super or turbo charging at this point. The conversion is still a little while off but i will be looking at buying an engine and all the other thing i need towards the end of the year. So any input and advice would be a good help.

Cheers Lorenz

T3 motor is "just" a 5.0 stroked. So probably started life as a 200 or 220, stroked, and then the fancy intake. Stroking a windsor has been done many times and Tickford's version is not the best, nor the worst. Use similar parts to what they did, and you could even stroke an older E series motor with the same success (and start from a cheaper base, maybe).

Boza · 11-05-2011, 01:20 PM

Massive job mate, friend did it to his au had to change dash looms cut up and splice his loom then had to change front springs shocks to v8 spec big job mate.

I know you don't want to buy an xr8 but think about this, is it worth it with all the cost of parts and mucking around and at the end of the day a converted car is never as reliable as a one from the factory.

I know I did 2 conversions never again pain in the **** and the results and reliability aren't worth it.

Ford Falcon XR6 · 11-05-2011, 08:38 PM

Thanks for the input everyone it's given me a little more to think about i'm leaning towards a T3 motor just have to take my time to wait for one to come up. In relation to what you said Balboa i cant see how i would have to cut and splice any under dash looms on an Au to Au engine swap of the same series as all the under dash gear is the same unless i want a fairmont style dash.

Cheers Lorenz

foxtrot3 · 11-05-2011, 08:56 PM

Hi. Dont just buy an engine, the best bet is buy a written-off car to use as a donor, that way you get all the little bits and bobs that suit like springs,the right diff, wiring, ECU, engine mounts, exhaust, etc, etc, etc. Cheers MD

Donny · 11-05-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrot3

Hi. Dont just buy an engine, the best bet is buy a written-off car to use as a donor, that way you get all the little bits and bobs that suit like springs,the right diff, wiring, ECU, engine mounts, exhaust, etc, etc, etc. Cheers MD

Thats how Id tackle this one if it was me doing it.. If you allready had an XR8, then Id just mod up the motor to T3 or more spec.
Seenings yours is a 6 and your looking to fit an 8, it would make a lot of sence to have a donor car for anything you may need, be it anticipated or non anticipated bits and bobs. The conversion isnt as straight forward as lifting one setup out and lifting in another one and plugging it all back in.

I wouldnt go hunting a T3 motor personally, theres 10k blown just buying the donk, in who knows what condition.. You still may need to rebuild from there.. Id start with an AU S2 or 3 5.0 Windsor, add a top of the line stroker kit and girdle and also set the heads up to better than T3 spec, then see if you can get a T3 manifold or something close to one as they are pretty good.
Thats what I will do if my 220kw Windsor ever expires..

b2tf · 11-05-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

Thats how Id tackle this one if it was me doing it.. If you allready had an XR8, then Id just mod up the motor to T3 or more spec.
Seenings yours is a 6 and your looking to fit an 8, it would make a lot of sence to have a donor car for anything you may need, be it anticipated or non anticipated bits and bobs. The conversion isnt as straight forward as lifting one setup out and lifting in another one and plugging it all back in.

I wouldnt go hunting a T3 motor personally, theres 10k blown just buying the donk, in who knows what condition.. You still may need to rebuild from there.. Id start with an AU S2 or 3 5.0 Windsor, add a top of the line stroker kit and girdle and also set the heads up to better than T3 spec, then see if you can get a T3 manifold or something close to one as they are pretty good.
Thats what I will do if my 220kw Windsor ever expires.

I have to agree - get the 2 cars sitting side by side, a good toolset and an ellerys guide and be prepared to learn a lot. I too wouldnt bother with a T3 motor unless it was for a too good to pass up price - if your intention is to work the motor regardless of what it is, start with the 5L and build it to be what you want. I do agree with JC too that while the T3 motor is a hell of a donk, nobody can deny that they were built to a budget and the aftermarket has a lot more options available.

Might be worth talking to KRISTO as he has put a V8 in his 6cyl Lane but that was done for him. He would still have info for you though.

MattSAU2XR8 · 12-05-2011, 12:00 AM

Unless the existing motor is stuffed I'd give serious thought to fitting up an off the shelf turbo kit or supercharger kit. This could easily give you more power and torque than the V8 and save you a heap of time and stuffing around, and as a bonus you'd own an AU XR6 turbo! If its sorted I might even buy it off you one day. On the other hand an XR6/XR8 clone might not be all that interesting to a buyer down the track. Then you could use the time you would have spent stuffing around on fixing customers cars and making money to spend on clutches, diffs, tyres etc... Sorry, I know you asked about a V8 conversion but I couldn't help myself. Probably because I think my AU 2 XR8 200 with a few mods is pretty sluggish and imagine a turbo 6 would be a lot easier to massage.

Ford Falcon XR6 · 12-05-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I have to agree - get the 2 cars sitting side by side, a good toolset and an ellerys guide and be prepared to learn a lot. I too wouldnt bother with a T3 motor unless it was for a too good to pass up price - if your intention is to work the motor regardless of what it is, start with the 5L and build it to be what you want. I do agree with JC too that while the T3 motor is a hell of a donk, nobody can deny that they were built to a budget and the aftermarket has a lot more options available.

Might be worth talking to KRISTO as he has put a V8 in his 6cyl Lane but that was done for him. He would still have info for you though.

Thanks agian for the input everyone i do agree that having a donor car would make the operation a lot easier. In regards to putting a stroker kit in a standard 5 litre i though that most if the money you spend on getting the engine bored and buying the kit and aftermarket ECU and tune you could buy a T3 or 2 Motor/Donor which is sort of an already "Set Up" package ready to go. I'd only be working the motor if i got a T2 if i got a T3 i'd leave it stock maybe a little head work. Also if i got a T2 and worked it what sort of power could i expect with AFR heads, Aftermarket CAI, high flow exhaust and chip and tune ?? As for doing a tubro I6 i've also been toying with this idea but i'd really like the nice V8 sound and constant power. But i do agree with you matt that a turbo or supercharged setup has it's up side

Cheers Lorenz

Cam · 13-05-2011, 08:30 AM

Personally, if time wasn't an issue.... I'd buy a wrecked AU V8 with an engine in any condition just for the wiring / ECU as mentioned above... Then buy a dart block and build it.. Or just buy a crate engine..

If you put in a 220 / T3 V8 you will very soon become annoyed with the limits of the stock block, and go looking for alternatives.. I built a very expensive stroker a few years ago with a stock block, and now a stock XR6T with a tune and a couple of mods is capable of more then my block will handle..

If I had my time again, I'd do it right the first time :-) The strong AUD makes it a pretty good value..

KR1STO · 14-05-2011, 10:20 AM

The conversion was easy in mine mate.. If I had the room at my place I would have done it myself...!!
If you're handy with the tools you'll be fine...

Make sure you get a matching series V8 ECU and it will be fine..
So, you'll need a S2/3 ECU..

You won't need to change ANY dash loom at all..!

You'll need:
Engine loom
Power steering lines
Engine Mounts
A/C lines
Fuel lines (from tank to manifold) or you can modify yours to suit..
And obviously
Engine
Trans
ECU

That was all we changed on mine mate..
Quite an easy conversion compared to earlier models (e-series) where dash looms and K-frames need to be changed..

I say do it mate..!

If you need to know anything else, feel free to pm me..

Cheers
Kris

KR1STO · 14-05-2011, 07:26 PM

few thing I forgot to add..

You'll need to change accelerator cable and cruise control stuff as well..

that's about it..!

Ford Falcon XR6 · 14-05-2011, 10:55 PM

Thanks for the info on the standard block limitations cam will keep this in mind when i make a decision on what motor to use. Massive thanks Kris for the list of things i'll need to change in the conversion this should be very helpful. It's a relief to hear i don't have to change the underdash wiring. For now it's a little more money saving. Towards the end of this year i'll start a build thread when i've got the motor and keep you all updated on progress.

Cheers Lorenz

Ride · 15-05-2011, 06:29 PM

I can sell you my T3 motor, but it'd cost you $20k and you'd have to take the rest of the car with you

Beer Baron · 15-05-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ride

I can sell you my T3 motor, but it'd cost you $20k and you'd have to take the rest of the car with you

Is that a serious offer ? Don't tempt me.

Ride · 15-05-2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beer Baron

Is that a serious offer ? Don't tempt me.

Nah, the Ghia has cost me a fair bit and $20k wouldn't come close to what I would be happy with. Realistically I probably wouldn't get $20k for it considering the price of a T2 TS50 or a poor condition T3 is hovering around that price point.

I've set myself a goal to be sitting in a T3 by the end of the year, how I do that I'm not 100% sure but at this stage the Ghia is staying in the family, whether I keep it for myself and spend more on it so it's showroom condition or I sell it cheaply to the parents (their car will probably bite the dust end of this year).

Ride · 15-05-2011, 06:55 PM

Back to the thread topic (sorry for the sidestep, not really the place for it) from a person that has done the conversion with a T3 motor, you need to have the whole package to make it functional. What I mean by that is the ESS auto and the steering wheel to suit are defining characteristics that go hand in hand with the T3 stroker. Then again you could say that about the suspension, interior, wheels and Brembos too.

Remember that the gearbox bellhousings are different and slight internal differences, so you would need the auto/manual box from the donor car too in order to make it work.

Ford Falcon XR6 · 21-05-2011, 08:34 PM

I plan to keep my car manual so ESS won't be an issue. I do know that my current gearbox won't be compatable with a T3/V8 engine. The T3 manual gearboxes were different to the other Au V8 gearboxes if i'm right what is the difference in the gearbox ???

Cheers Lorenz

b2tf · 21-05-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Falcon XR6

I plan to keep my car manual so ESS won't be an issue. I do know that my current gearbox won't be compatable with a T3/V8 engine. The T3 manual gearboxes were different to the other Au V8 gearboxes if i'm right what is the difference in the gearbox ???

6 cyl runs a BW T5 gearbox, V8 runs a BW T5Z gearbox (stronger) and the T3's ran a Tremec TR3650 gearbox - had to be used to handle the extra torque.

You can run a T5Z behind a T3 engine, a mate has done/is doing it but if possible the 3650 box would be the go. The BA's use the 3650 but the bellhousing is T3 specific if I remember right so even if you got a BA gearbox to use, you would still need the right bellhousing.

Boza · 22-05-2011, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KR1STO

The conversion was easy in mine mate.. If I had the room at my place I would have done it myself...!!
If you're handy with the tools you'll be fine...

Make sure you get a matching series V8 ECU and it will be fine..
So, you'll need a S2/3 ECU..

You won't need to change ANY dash loom at all..!

You'll need:
Engine loom
Power steering lines
Engine Mounts
A/C lines
Fuel lines (from tank to manifold) or you can modify yours to suit..
And obviously
Engine
Trans
ECU

That was all we changed on mine mate..
Quite an easy conversion compared to earlier models (e-series) where dash looms and K-frames need to be changed..

I say do it mate..!

If you need to know anything else, feel free to pm me..

Cheers
Kris

see i was going by e series in regards to dash loom