**GM preparing for bankruptcy**

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Surely they are a lost cause?

Not while the US govt keep resuscitating them and propping them up....
They're a bit like a brain dead patient on life support: the body will keep living while its artificially supported, but in reality its too late..

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Not while the US govt keep resuscitating them and propping them up....
They're a bit like a brain dead patient on life support: the body will keep living while its artificially supported, but in reality its too late..

That's what it seems like. It's amazing that one company became so big that it was deemed a disaster if it should ever fail?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

That's what it seems like. It's amazing that one company became so big that it was deemed a disaster if it should ever fail?

Look at some of the companies in the banking sector, same difference.
The US wont let GM go down.

Would people's opinions be different if it were the Blue oval that were in trouble?

[schnoods]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Look at some of the companies in the banking sector, same difference.
The US wont let GM go down.

Would people's opinions be different if it were the Blue oval that were in trouble?

It aint far off it.

They reckon it wont be too long before the markets pick up, but it will be a few years before general confidence will be back to the levels of 8 months ago.

It all happens in cycles, but you cant rely on it being good for too long...

Ford will be on the same path, whether they go as far will be another kettle of fish.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by schnoods

Ford will be on the same path, whether they go as far will be another kettle of fish.

Ford started restructuring back when credit was available, so that saved them from asking for Government money.

With Mullay steering the ship they should pull out ok.

After he leaves will be a test for Ford not to go back into the bad old days. But I think Mullay will set Ford US up in a way to be diverse so when times are good they will be able to sell more pickups, SUV's and large sedans, but when times are tough they will have small cheap vehicles to help minimise losses.

[ColourHide]

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[ColourHide]

Unfortunately i think we are going to have holden stay around for sometime now.

GM(die) will restructure their business and holden will be a large part of their future. They claim holden is the only profitable arm they have, They wont cut it off anytime soon.

[DIFFWA]

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

[Ohio XB]

They reckon it wont be too long before the markets pick up, but it will be a few years before general confidence will be back to the levels of 8 months ago.

Ford has resized for this market condition. Right now they would not be able to match production of 8 months ago. Remember, they've closed down 17 plants and reduced 52,000 people, so they are prepared to operate with a smaller market. In the years to come as the market increases they will be able to hire people at 1/2 the hourly wage and reduced benefits to ramp up production.

The "bottom" that we are at right now is not going to be the new norm The new norm. will not be what it was before, but more than now, and that is what Ford has resized, compensated, and planned for.



Steve

[ColourHide]

Originally Posted by DIFFWA

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

When did this happen ?. I always thought gm(great mistake) bought holden fully out ?.

[Bud Bud]

Actually if you read between the lines of just about every press release that has come out of Detroit over the last year, Holden has never been mentioned amongst the doomed. Just about everything else that GM has in their arsenal has but Holden for some reason has escaped this indignity. Even Pontiac (even though they were franticly trying to resurrect it) had still been slated as disposable all along right up until its eventual demise.

GM if it survives still sees Holden as a good brand and a shining light amongst its global empire. If GM survives and closes down half of its operations and off loads its other half, Holden may be in an even more unique position to supply R/W drive to its global markets.

As for Ford Aus, this is a fantastic position to be in because if Holden not just survives but prospers under a new and refreshed GM, then Ford Aus will stand a better chance of presenting a good business case for the next generation R/W drive platform. The only reason we get our R/W drive hi-po sedans in Aus is because of the competition between Ford and Holden. Lose one, we lose the other.

Personally I can't see why GM would want keep Holden so close under it's wing if they did not have some future big plans for them. I think that if Holden made clumsy F/W drive cars like an Aurion Camry etc, they would of been doomed like the rest by now.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by DIFFWA

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

Ahhhhm......

No !

Holden are 100 % owned my GM.

If not, who in Australia own them ? Seen a listing for Holden on the Stock market have you ?


Holden ARE in deep trouble don't believe the spin, they can't pay the redundancy payouts for their employees.....

[Jason[98.EL]]

Found this one

By Peter Whoriskey

Restructured GM to build more cars overseas
When plan completed, number of new cars built abroad will roughly double

WASHINGTON - The U.S. government is pouring billions into General Motors in hopes of reviving the domestic economy, but when the automaker completes its restructuring plan, many of the company's new jobs will be filled by workers overseas.

According to an outline the company has been sharing privately with Washington legislators, the number of cars that GM sells in the United States and builds in Mexico, China and South Korea will roughly double.

The proportion of GM cars sold domestically and manufactured in those low-wage countries will rise from 15 percent to 23 percent over the next five years, according to the figures contained in a 12-page presentation offered to lawmakers in response to their questions about overseas production.

As a result, the long-simmering argument over U.S. manufacturers expanding production overseas -- normally arising between unions and private companies -- is about to engage the Obama administration.

Essentially in control of the company, the president's autos task force faces an awkward choice: It can either require General Motors to keep more jobs at home, potentially raising labor costs at a company already beset with financial woes, or it can risk political fury by allowing the automaker to expand operations at lower-cost manufacturing locations.

"It's an almost impossible dilemma," said former labor secretary Robert B. Reich, now a professor at the University of California-Berkeley. "GM is a global company -- so for that matter is AIG and the biggest Wall Street banks. That means that bailing them out doesn't necessarily redound to the benefit of the U.S. or American workers.

"More significantly, it raises fundamental questions about the purpose of bailing out these big companies. If GM is going to do more of its production overseas, then why exactly are we saving GM?"

The administration has aroused similar complaints by shepherding a merger between Chrysler and Italian automaker Fiat. But it has extracted a promise from Fiat that it will build small cars in the United States.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Not while the US govt keep resuscitating them and propping them up....
They're a bit like a brain dead patient on life support: the body will keep living while its artificially supported, but in reality its too late..

Probably preparing the body for organ donation.

[AlbertM]

Originally Posted by DIFFWA

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

Holden LTD no longer exsists. It's Current name is "GM Holden".

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by AlbertM

Holden LTD no longer exsists. It's Current name is "GM Holden".

And it started making holden Cars after it was fully US owned somewhere near 80 years ago IIRC

[Nikked]

before Gm bought out holden were coachbuilders, they were making local bodies for us imports, Ford, GM and Chrysler/dodge. They then went on to be the australian out post of GM

[ebxr8240]

Keep in mind chapter 11 doesn't mean the end of G.M !!
Its actually better long term if they do, the sooner the better.. Heaps of management would get a shake up also...
If I remember correctly ?? Some of their airlines are under chapter 11..
On February 1, 2006, United emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection under which it had operated since December 9, 2002, the largest and longest airline bankruptcy case in the history of the industry..
How chapt 11 works..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter...ed_States_Code

So a company can come back!! It seems G.M is going to down size big time!!

[vztrt]

Some more news on the GM Bankruptcy

GM bankruptcy could spread overseas

GM chief doesn’t rule out bankruptcy move for subsidiaries

By IAN PORTER 12 May 2009

GENERAL Motors is considering putting its international operations into bankruptcy if it chooses to take that course in the US, chief executive Fritz Henderson said last night.

The decision is a potential blow for GM Holden, which is already set to lose its Pontiac export deal to the US.

However, Mr Henderson said bankruptcy for subsidiaries was not the preferred course of action, and that analyis was being done on a country-by-country basis.

GM Holden spokesman Scott Whiffin said yesterday there was no suggestion Holden was going to go bankrupt.

“I actually don’t think there is anything new in what Mr Henderson said,” he said, adding that there was nothing unusual about the analysis being done on a country-by-country basis.

“There’s no question these are tough, interesting times for the global automotive industry, but we, Holden, are planning to be here for a long time yet.”

Mr Henderson was giving the second in a promised series of regular press conferences, although he started by saying he did not have anything specific to announce.

In answer to a reporter's question, he said it might not be only the US company that was put into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which he said was still the most likely course of events in the US.

“Given the objectives we have set for ourselves, it is more probable we will need to accomplish our goals in a bankruptcy,” he said.

Mr Henderson said it was still not clear if all or some of the company’s international operations would also have to be put into bankruptcy.

“Work continues on that front on a country by country basis,” he said.

“It is not a foregone conclusion a US filing would result in filings in other places. As a general principle, I think it would be our preference to avoid that.

“But in a number of cases it might be necessary.

“I’ll have more to say when we get to that point about what we need to do. But at this point the analysis is being done country by country.”

Asked about disquiet in the United Auto Workers (UAW) union about a prospective doubling in the number of vehicles imported for sale in the US, Mr Henderson said the company was in discussion with the UAW.

“Our (restructuring) plan had, by 2014, about 7.5 per cent of production for US sales outside North America. That’s about 235,000 vehicles,” he said, adding that it would be spread over six products.

“This is something we would want to have a discussion with them about, because in general, as a matter of policy, we have the philosophy of building where we sell.

“Not only do we think it is the right thing to do, it’s the most profitable thing to do, historically, so we would anticipate having a dialog about the union concerns that are on the table.”

The planned closure of the Pontiac brand in the US will spell the end of Holden’s US export program, which saw Commodores being shipped to the US as Pontiac G8 sedans.

Last week, Mr Henderson said no American-built Pontiacs would be rebadged for sale in any of the continuing GM brands – Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC.

It is not clear if that policy would also apply to the Commodore, which has recently been touted as a possible export candidate to the US as a police squad car.

The stated preference to build where the vehicles are sold might also rule out possible exports of the Commodore utility to the US as a small GMC pick-up.

Mr Henderson said the sale of the Hummer operation had run over time, although GM was still negotiating with two parties.

“We had three offers for Hummer and we are negotiating with two parties trying to reach acceptable terms,” Mr Henderson said.

He had wanted to have Hummer sold by the end of April, but said last night he now expected talks to be concluded by the end of May.

A number of parties, all Swedish, had expressed interest in Saab. However, Mr Henderson said that the process was being run by Saab and he had no direct knowledge of the talks.

On the sale of Opel/Vauxhall, Mr Henderson appeared to rule out the possibility that a new partner in the business, such as Fiat, might choose to close down Vauxhall.

“I am not going to talk about the discussions, but I will say that our business in the UK is our largest in Europe,” he said

“Vauxhall dealers do a fantastic job and Vauxhall is an integrated and crucial part of our business.”

Mr Henderson said GM was talking with several interested parties about Opel and was hoping to have an idea about the form of any agreement by the end of May.

He indicated that GM would retain a stake of some kind, but acknowledged that Opel needed fresh capital, and quickly.

“With respect to the German Government, we have a need for funding, actually, in our European business.

“That’s important and urgent and the German Government hasn’t indicated an interest in running our business but, on the other hand, we do need their support in terms of funding.

“To the extent that we will have a partner in our European business, and we anticipate we will, we need to respect the legitimate interests of that partner, whichever that partner is.

“I think there will be substantial benefits from running the business on a global basis. On the other hand, you need to respect the rights of the partner in any such agreement.”

He pointed to Daewoo in Korea, where GM a little more than 50 per cent of the capital, and the joint venture in China with Shanghai Automotive, as examples of where GM has had success with partnerships.

[Road_Warrior]

I gotta wonder what the hell is going on at GoAuto lately. When that article was published this morning, it had a title of "Holden faces bankruptcy" - quite misleading and incorrect. Someone has obviously given them a rude phone call because they've changed it.

[R-Design]

"GM Holden spokesman Scott 'Deny Everything' Whiffin said yesterday there was no suggestion Holden was going to go bankrupt."

At least GMH's PR team is running on all cylinders.

[MickyB]

The interesting thing is that in Australia company's cannot become 'bankrupt'. They can be put under administration, enter receivership, or enter liquidation. I'm not sure how a foreign owned company would be dealt with, but if it occurred in Aus then it could not undergo bankruptcy. Only non corporate entity's such as individuals and partnerships can become bankrupt.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by MickyB

The interesting thing is that in Australia company's cannot become 'bankrupt'. They can be put under administration, enter receivership, or enter liquidation. I'm not sure how a foreign owned company would be dealt with, but if it occurred in Aus then it could not undergo bankruptcy. Only non corporate entity's such as individuals and partnerships can become bankrupt.

Apart from the outcome of the GM restructure, Holden could end up in Receivership or Administration if the company was reliant in a letter of support from GM to satisfy and pay the debts of GMH if or when they occur.

That is to say, if Holden needed the support of it's parent to remain a going concern (which could be possible if Holden bore the brunt of a number of costs eg engineering etc) and then if the parent collapsed, the company may not be solvent, resulting in the directors going to a VA or a race by what I would assume to be a local banking syndicate to appoint a receiver.

[Piotr]

Well for receivers and managers to be appointed a default under the relevant charge would need to occur first

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Apart from the outcome of the GM restructure, Holden could end up in Receivership or Administration if the company was reliant in a letter of support from GM to satisfy and pay the debts of GMH if or when they occur.

That is to say, if Holden needed the support of it's parent to remain a going concern (which could be possible if Holden bore the brunt of a number of costs eg engineering etc) and then if the parent collapsed, the company may not be solvent, resulting in the directors going to a VA or a race by what I would assume to be a local banking syndicate to appoint a receiver.

Yeh I agree with you there, my main purpose was to point out that Holden could not become bankrupt in this country. Being technical I guess
I certainly agree that if GM withdraw their funding then Holden faces insolvency.

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by MickyB

Yeh I agree with you there, my main purpose was to point out that Holden could not become bankrupt in this country. Being technical I guess
I certainly agree that if GM withdraw their funding then Holden faces insolvency.

You are just nit picking at the name

[R-Design]

I think the last line promoting GM's JV with Shanghai Automotive in China & its shared owndership of Daewoo are more telling with respect to where GMH is headed.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Piotr

Well for receivers and managers to be appointed a default under the relevant charge would need to occur first

Wwitching into space cadet mode:

Your right, but it depends on the charge document. Usually most charges can be "defaulted" if an Insolvency Event occurs or the company stops or threatens to stop carrying on its businesses or a material part thereof without the consent of the bank.

Regardless the directors would jump straight to VA as the repercussions of trading whilst insolvent are significantly more onerous than in the US. Going to VA should allow a banking syndicate with security over substantially the whole of the company to appoint a receiver and manager within 13 days of the VA commencing.

I'm sure if any of these occur, the validity of appointment would be challenged one way or another whether it's a VA or an R&M.

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I gotta wonder what the hell is going on at GoAuto lately. When that article was published this morning, it had a title of "Holden faces bankruptcy" - quite misleading and incorrect. Someone has obviously given them a rude phone call because they've changed it.

mm interesting, seems like another example of holden controling the media. I bet if it was FOA facing bankruptcy the title would have stayed.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Wwitching into space cadet mode:

Your right, but it depends on the charge document. Usually most charges can be "defaulted" if an Insolvency Event occurs or the company stops or threatens to stop carrying on its businesses or a material part thereof without the consent of the bank.

Regardless the directors would jump straight to VA as the repercussions of trading whilst insolvent are significantly more onerous than in the US. Going to VA should allow a banking syndicate with security over substantially the whole of the company to appoint a receiver and manager within 13 days of the VA commencing.

I'm sure if any of these occur, the validity of appointment would be challenged one way or another whether it's a VA or an R&M.

exactly what i was thinkin..: