**GM preparing for bankruptcy**

[z80]

G'day mate...small world...;)

Originally Posted by mikmak

Either you're 75+ or there isn't much you remember about the 60-61 recession. .

Err...we are in a recession now..haven't you heard?

Guess that only makes me need to justify back to 1975.

Bit young for you I 'spose.

Originally Posted by mikmak

What on earth contributed to your assessment of Ford being a stamping operation in 5 years? .

I could tell ya but i'd have to shoot ya....

Originally Posted by mikmak

+ after the recession...erm, recedes, there will still be a great demand for energy and ore. I would imagine that in 2010, there may well be high unemployment, but we should well and truly be in a trough by then.

Economics is interesting, try and read about it.

Hint: what do you call it when a recession is actually bigger than a recession?

(starts with a "D")

[z80]

Originally Posted by Wally

Like you I'm more upbeat about the future, It's not like the nation hasn't had them before:


1893-94
1914-15
1926 -27
1931-32
1942-43
1946-47
1961-62
1966-66
1969-70
1974-75
1982-83
1990 -91
2009-?

You missed 1997-1998...

[Wally]

Yeah, I think there was one around 1900 too.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Even if GM trips and falls in the toilet, it isn't going to vanish and neither is Holden. They will just be a whole lot leaner and Holden will be less dependant on a singular model line. It is essentially the same strategy being employed by Ford Aus. Either way, Holden and Ford are not liabilities to their parent companies and neither parent company really gives a about what Holden and Ford Aus do unless it costs them money.

Best selling vehicles can get near 1 million units in the US. Our volumes aren't big enough to even draw interest.

I bet the Mitsubishi employees in Adelade thought they were safe as well. In the current climate if it aint earning money it will be tough to survive.
Yes there have been other recessions/depressions and a lot of companies cease to exist because of them.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by mr smith

I bet the Mitsubishi employees in Adelade thought they were safe as well. In the current climate if it aint earning money it will be tough to survive.
Yes there have been other recessions/depressions and a lot of companies cease to exist because of them.

On the contrary, I'd bet the Mitsu workers must have been nervous leading up to the release of the last of the Magnas (I know, 380 but it's still a magna). Whilst they had significantly improved fit and general quality (especially over the US version), it still had the same major bug bears of Large FWDs. Can't park, can't steer and go at the same time. It also had crap rear head room and a centre console with buttons from a Chinese market radio.

They didn't build a vehicle that had the necessary requirements to increase market share. Even more so, they were victims of the same foe that has gotten the world in the crapola that it is currently in. Speculators.

Media coverage of the impending death compounded the problems at Mitsu.

Cash relies heavily on confidence, as does any commodity. Folks watching the nightly 6 o'clock horror show, get their opinions from news channels that predominantly angle a story to look worse than it is, in order to generate more follow on viewership. Market speculators know this and sell based on which way they assume the public will react. Once they sell big, it hits the financial pages making Joe Public think it's even worse.

Now you can't blame Joe. He doesn't have time to investigate every occurrence outside his level of understanding. This recurring decay of stock price gives rise to short selling, hence it being poo-pooed by the feds.

The US government has tried to get around negative public perception in regard to GM and Chrysler by assuring Joe that the warranty on his Silverado will hold water, no matter what the outcome. This will be the real decider on whether or not GM can turn around. Convince the public that GM can be okay and the speculators will follow.......creating another bubble

[mikmak]

Oh and g'day z80. Hows your '83 going

[Elks]

Originally Posted by mr smith

I bet the Mitsubishi employees in Adelade thought they were safe as well. In the current climate if it aint earning money it will be tough to survive.
Yes there have been other recessions/depressions and a lot of companies cease to exist because of them.

Not just cars either, Daimler Trucks has axed their Sterling brand plant closed in March. Paccars Kenworth plant in Seattle has been shut down for weeks..

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by myts

Not just cars either, Daimler Trucks has axed their Sterling brand plant closed in March. Paccars Kenworth plant in Seattle has been shut down for weeks..

One thing you do have to remember truck sales slumped at the start of 08 when new emmission laws came into effect and the price of engines went up. The GFC just made it worse.

[z80]

Originally Posted by mikmak

On the contrary, I'd bet the Mitsu workers must have been nervous leading up to the release of the last of the Magnas

Not really, better let you know some facts.
They had an export agreement to ship 220 Magna...aka...Diamante to the US based on third world ausssie labour rates based on 50c against the US dollar.

They were producing 270 cars aday and exporting 220.

That's why the SA government was happy to prop them up.

Workers were very happy and secure.

Originally Posted by mikmak

(I know, 380 but it's still a magna).

why not call it a Valiant or Charger?

Originally Posted by mikmak

Whilst they had significantly improved fit and general quality (especially over the US version), it still had the same major bug bears of Large FWDs. Can't park, can't steer and go at the same time. It also had crap rear head room and a centre console with buttons from a Chinese market radio.

Sorry you're way off...you may want to drive one first.
They won numerous awards in numerous categories for the 380.
Your comments are simply liberating some critics opinion.

Show me any other Australian built car that came with a 10 year warranty?

Originally Posted by mikmak

They didn't build a vehicle that had the necessary requirements to increase market share. Even more so, they were victims of the same foe that has gotten the world in the crapola that it is currently in. Speculators.

It had nothing to do with having the right product, you are misinformed.

Read above...220 of the 270 magnas produced were exported when the aussie dollar was 50cents against the US.

The dollar got to almost one for one when the 380 was launched...the US market wasn't going to pay Aussie workers to build it...too expensive.

So the Japs started manufacturing in the US.


Nothing to do with FWD, boring stereos or cosmetics.

Just that our currency got too high, and we were being used as third world labour for the Americans.

Originally Posted by mikmak

Media coverage of the impending death compounded the problems at Mitsu.

The nail was in the coffin regarding the no export contract.

Believe it or not...their timing for closing the factory was perfect....all workers were paid their entitlements, they got a good price for all stock and equipment and Mitsu are doing alot better than Toyota as a result.

I don't see any headlines about Mitsubishi in danger of bankruptcy like GM.

Originally Posted by mikmak

Cash relies heavily on confidence, as does any commodity. Folks watching the nightly 6 o'clock horror show, get their opinions from news channels that predominantly angle a story to look worse than it is, in order to generate more follow on viewership. Market speculators know this and sell based on which way they assume the public will react. Once they sell big, it hits the financial pages making Joe Public think it's even worse.

No mate, you can't talk up an economy that has no actual money to grow.

Did you know that the banks don't have enough money if everyone went to withdraw all their funds?

Betcha they offer you a free bank cheque instead...

It will get worse, no matter how much confidence is exuded.

Originally Posted by mikmak

Now you can't blame Joe. He doesn't have time to investigate every occurrence outside his level of understanding. This recurring decay of stock price gives rise to short selling, hence it being poo-pooed by the feds.

The US government has tried to get around negative public perception in regard to GM and Chrysler by assuring Joe that the warranty on his Silverado will hold water, no matter what the outcome. This will be the real decider on whether or not GM can turn around. Convince the public that GM can be okay and the speculators will follow.......creating another bubble

Average Joe has one huge problem that stops him from buying a new car..

He ain't got a job no more.....

[z80]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Oh and g'day z80. Hows your '83 going

What's an '83?


How's that old pushrod engine going?

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by z80

Not really, better let you know some facts.
They had an export agreement to ship 220 Magna...aka...Diamante to the US based on third world ausssie labour rates based on 50c against the US dollar.

They were producing 270 cars aday and exporting 220.

That's why the SA government was happy to prop them up.

Workers were very happy and secure.

Really? Got a link for that? I'm pretty sure that US Auto workers may have had something to say about that since they were building the Galant for almost 2 years before MMAL started pumping them out.

Originally Posted by z80

why not call it a Valiant or Charger?

Because it had no muscle and drove from the wrong end.

Originally Posted by z80

Sorry you're way off...you may want to drive one first.
They won numerous awards in numerous categories for the 380.
Your comments are simply liberating some critics opinion.

I have. It was okay, nothing more.

Originally Posted by z80

Show me any other Australian built car that came with a 10 year warranty?

THat was a commendable effort, but, they still had the wrong product.

Originally Posted by z80

It had nothing to do with having the right product, you are misinformed.

Read above...220 of the 270 magnas produced were exported when the aussie dollar was 50cents against the US.

The dollar got to almost one for one when the 380 was launched...the US market wasn't going to pay Aussie workers to build it...too expensive.

So the Japs started manufacturing in the US.


Nothing to do with FWD, boring stereos or cosmetics.

Just that our currency got too high, and we were being used as third world labour for the Americans.

Erm, see above.

Originally Posted by z80

The nail was in the coffin regarding the no export contract.

Believe it or not...their timing for closing the factory was perfect....all workers were paid their entitlements, they got a good price for all stock and equipment and Mitsu are doing alot better than Toyota as a result.

I don't see any headlines about Mitsubishi in danger of bankruptcy like GM.

^^^That I can agree with (except the export contract, which was actually to Malaysia [props to wiki]). MMAL pulled the plug at the right time.

Originally Posted by z80

No mate, you can't talk up an economy that has no actual money to grow.

Err. That's a bubble z80.

Originally Posted by z80

Did you know that the banks don't have enough money if everyone went to withdraw all their funds?

Betcha they offer you a free bank cheque instead...

It will get worse, no matter how much confidence is exuded.

Oh like now, when banks are raising fixed interest rates on mortgages, in anticipation of the turn around of the yeild curve in the third quarter?:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by z80

Average Joe has one huge problem that stops him from buying a new car..

He ain't got a job no more.....

:

Originally Posted by z80

What's an '83?


How's that old pushrod engine going?

Apparently it's you ride on GMI :rolleyes:

and what pushrod are you talking about?

80 wouldn't be your birth year would it?

[z80]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Really? Got a link for that? I'm pretty sure that US Auto workers may have had something to say about that since they were building the Galant for almost 2 years before MMAL started pumping them out.

Hmm...you need to read more carefully.

The 220/270 statement was regarding the Diamante, and the SA government's export inferences from there..as well as MMAL's.

All driven by slave labour exchange rates....as low as 00.48c.


Of course when you type Magna you probably mean 380...
(that makes all your comments nonsensical.)

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by z80

Hmm...you need to read more carefully.

The 220/270 statement was regarding the Diamante, and the SA government's export inferences from there..as well as MMAL's.

All driven by slave labour exchange rates....as low as 00.48c.


Of course when you type Magna you probably mean 380...
(that makes all your comments nonsensical.)

Call it whatever you want. MMAL never exported 220 of270 vehicles (per day ) to the US. That's >5400 units per month.
Besides, it was you yourself who also referred to the Magna....

Originally Posted by z80

Read above...220 of the 270 magnas produced were exported when the aussie dollar was 50cents against the US.

The dollar got to almost one for one when the 380 was launched...the US market wasn't going to pay Aussie workers to build it...too expensive.

I think you'd better have a lie [sic] down.

[mr smith]

Just spent a week in Tas driving a 380 hire car. Not bad.

My main point is that Holden are not a sure bet in being proped up. The government is quickly running out of money via stupid handouts.

[z80]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Just spent a week in Tas driving a 380 hire car. Not bad.

My main point is that Holden are not a sure bet in being proped up. The government is quickly running out of money via stupid handouts.

Agreed....

if they are pulling the pin on the first home buyers' subsidy, as they have intimated, then you can bet your *** that they would be politically unpopular to then proceed to subsidise multinational car companies that are making products that noone wants to buy....especially stupid 5 and 6 litre " family cars."

[imugli]

Originally Posted by mikmak

lol. Piotr. When the value of the US Dollar crashes, Bent8 will be rolling in mars bars, whereas everyone else (whom has no gold) will be using green backs as tallyhos.

Couldn't have said it better, mikmak.

Gold has been THE universal currency for 5000 years. Paper money has been around for how many?

Yes, the price of gold fluctuates, just like any currency, just like any stock, just like any other trade-able commodity.

But, as mikmak said, wait and see what happens when the value of the US$ tanks. Gold will be the thing that talks...

[The Stylist]

Here's a bit of an update on the GM situation, with one measure that will hurt Holden with its US VE exports.

From news.yahoo.com
GM to announce brand changes, restructuring moves

By TOM KRISHER, AP Auto Writer – 1 hr 12 mins ago
DETROIT – General Motors Corp. will announce details of its massive restructuring plan on Monday, including the demise of its storied Pontiac brand, more factory closures and bigger job cuts as it fights to avoid bankruptcy protection.

The struggling automaker must make the announcement in advance of a planned offer to its bondholders to swap debt for company stock. GM owes $28 billion to large and small bondholders, and under Securities and Exchange Commission rules, it must disclose its operational plans before making an exchange offer.

Two people briefed on GM's plan said the company has decided to close more factories than the five it announced in February. But the locations of the doomed factories will not be identified Monday, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the plan has not yet been made public.

One of the people said GM will list specific numbers of blue-collar job cuts, and announce another round of U.S. salaried job cuts beyond the 3,400 completed last week.

Chief Executive Fritz Henderson has said the company will go further and faster in making its cost cuts to reduce the number of cars and trucks it needs to sell to break even. One of the people briefed on the plan said GM will accelerate many cuts previously planned for 2014 to instead take place between now and 2010, although specifics were not available.

Both people confirmed that the plan includes the death of Pontiac, famous for the Trans Am sports car and the GTO. Efforts in the last few years to market Pontiac as performance-oriented brand failed to work. The company had said it wanted to keep Pontiac as a niche brand with one or two models, but is buckling under tremendous government pressure to consolidate its eight brands, several of which lose money.

The people said GM won't have much new information on Hummer, Saturn or other brands, including Europe's Opel. GM has indicated it wants to focus on four core brands, Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick.
Also to be announced Monday will be a target number for dealer reduction, as well as details of GM's bond exchange offer. But exact numbers were not available Sunday night.

The 9 a.m. EDT news conference will include Chief Executive Fritz Henderson, Chief Financial Officer Ray Young, North American President Troy Clarke and Mark LaNeve, vice president of North American sales and marketing.
GM is living on $15.4 billion in government loans and faces a government-imposed June 1 deadline to restructure or go into bankruptcy protection.

The government's restructuring demands include swapping at least two thirds of GM's unsecured bond debt for equity in the company. Such a move would help GM straighten out its debt-laden balance sheet.
Chrysler LLC, which is living on $4 billion in government loans and is expected to get $500 million more, faces a Thursday deadline to restructure and ink an alliance deal with Italian automaker Fiat SpA. The government also wants Chrysler to exchange much of its $6.9 billion in debt for equity in the company, but with the deadline fast approaching, Chrysler and its secured debtholders remain far apart.

Both GM and Chrysler also must win concessions from the United Auto Workers union. The UAW said late Sunday that it had reached agreement on concessions with Chrysler, Fiat and the U.S. government. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne was in the U.S. as talks continued for the automaker to take a 20 percent stake in Chrysler in exchange for its small-car technology.

[SA_GT]

Originally Posted by mikmak

On the contrary, I'd bet the Mitsu workers must have been nervous leading up to the release of the last of the Magnas (I know, 380 but it's still a magna). Whilst they had significantly improved fit and general quality (especially over the US version), it still had the same major bug bears of Large FWDs. Can't park, can't steer and go at the same time. It also had crap rear head room and a centre console with buttons from a Chinese market radio.

They didn't build a vehicle that had the necessary requirements to increase market share. Even more so, they were victims of the same foe that has gotten the world in the crapola that it is currently in. Speculators.

Media coverage of the impending death compounded the problems at Mitsu.

Cash relies heavily on confidence, as does any commodity. Folks watching the nightly 6 o'clock horror show, get their opinions from news channels that predominantly angle a story to look worse than it is, in order to generate more follow on viewership. Market speculators know this and sell based on which way they assume the public will react. Once they sell big, it hits the financial pages making Joe Public think it's even worse.

Now you can't blame Joe. He doesn't have time to investigate every occurrence outside his level of understanding. This recurring decay of stock price gives rise to short selling, hence it being poo-pooed by the feds.

The US government has tried to get around negative public perception in regard to GM and Chrysler by assuring Joe that the warranty on his Silverado will hold water, no matter what the outcome. This will be the real decider on whether or not GM can turn around. Convince the public that GM can be okay and the speculators will follow.......creating another bubble

Very well put mate.

[z80]

Originally Posted by mikmak

I think you'd better have a lie [sic] down.

You have Wiki...why would you ened to think anything.


Trust me, Wiki and Mikmak say so....must be true...

[MethodX]

[motorcycles4eva]

Originally Posted by MethodX

lol.. er..... scary..



i have a question that puzzles me.. don't get the poo's people..
ok.. with these big company's making so many millions..(car makers and any other company's)
their board of directors have a pay packet that i'd be happy for a months worth.. and yet.. they are getting rid of staff/cutting costs/ bankrupt?
don't they save some cash for times like these.. i can't understand how they can close doors.. so sudden?? i mean they aren't making enough profit to keep afloat? expences? when did they figure out they're going bust?
the people who buy shares.. do they have a say into this?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by motorcycles4eva

lol.. er..... scary..



i have a question that puzzles me.. don't get the poo's people..
ok.. with these big company's making so many millions..(car makers and any other company's)
their board of directors have a pay packet that i'd be happy for a months worth.. and yet.. they are getting rid of staff/cutting costs/ bankrupt?
don't they save some cash for times like these.. i can't understand how they can close doors.. so sudden?? i mean they aren't making enough profit to keep afloat? expences? when did they figure out they're going bust?
the people who buy shares.. do they have a say into this?

These companies are losing money bad. This is eating into their cash reserves so they way they deal with this is reduce expenses. The bigger issue is the big 3 have been losing money for the last couple of years so it makes it worse.

[vztrt]

Bit of an update

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-n...0503-ar7w.html

GM could follow Chrysler into bankruptcy: analysts
Joseph Szczesny
May 3, 2009 - 2:59PM

General Motors could soon follow Chrysler into bankruptcy protection and the process is unlikely to be simple or swift for either troubled automaker, analysts warned.

"Bankruptcy may indeed be the last, best option to restructure General Motors because of the multitude of challenges the company faces and its deeply entrenched stakeholders," said Doug Bernstein, head of Plunkett Cooney's banking, bankruptcy and creditors' rights law practice group.

"But it's unrealistic to expect that the process will go smoothly and quickly," Bernstein said.

"The company is massive, its operations are complex, and it has thousands of potential claimants and interested parties."

In announcing Chrysler's bankruptcy Thursday, President Barack Obama insisted that "Chrysler and GM are going to come back" and said a restructuring under court protection, along with a partnership with Italy's Fiat, would give Chrysler "a new lease on life."

While Obama said his team would continue to work with GM to develop a long-term viability plan ahead of a June 1 deadline he also warned that "we simply cannot keep this company or any company afloat on an endless supply of tax US dollars."

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper warned that both the US and Canadian governments "will insist that all of the stakeholders make the sacrifices necessary to ensure the long-run viability" of General Motors.

"If they do not, governments will not participate in the restructuring," he said after announcing that the Canadian government would allocate 2.4 billion US US dollars to help Chrysler emerge from bankruptcy.

A smattering of bondholders were blamed for blocking a deal to restructure Chrysler out of court and GM's bondholders seem equally intransigent.

A committee representing those bondholders went public hours before Chrysler's bankruptcy was formally announced Thursday with demands for a significantly larger equity stake than has been offered by the Obama administration.

The debt for equity exchange at GM also dwarfs that at Chrysler, which had fewer than 100 principal financial creditors.

At GM, any exchange must involve more than 120 major financial institutions, ranging from banks to pension funds, and about 100,000 individual investors.

Another stumbling block to a GM deal is a plan to eliminate the Pontiac brand and selling off Hummer, Saab and Saturn, said Jay Gleischman, managing partner of 4Gen Consulting in Troy, Michigan.

"Everybody knows Treasury is playing hardball," he said.

"But it's going to be for different reasons than Chrysler. It's going to be to sever its relations with dealers."

GM has said it wants to eliminate 42 percent of existing dealerships, reducing the number from 6,246 in 2008 to 3,605 by the end of 2010.

The plan has met resistance from the National Automobile Dealers Association, which has asked dealers to contribute to a legal defense fund.

A further complication is the impact the Chrysler bankruptcy and plant idling at both automakers will have on the already-stressed supply base.

David Allardice, an economist at Walsh College outside Detroit, said suppliers are already bracing for the worst.

"Regarding General Motors, others took the view that they could 'see the train coming' with the announcement of nine weeks of plant shutdowns," Allardice said.

Brad Coulter of O'Keefe & Associates said GM suppliers ought to pay close attention to what happens at Chrysler.

"If certain suppliers are not deemed critical in the Chrysler bankruptcy, then I would expect those same types of suppliers would be very wary of continuing to supply GM without getting paid on prior debts or going to cash in advance," he said.

© 2009 AFP

[ebxr8240]

We may all be share holders in Holden soon..
There has been talk about the Gov buying them out ??

[vztrt]

Ok a worldwide large car....

Fiat to create global car giant with GM tie up
May 4, 2009 - 6:24PM

Fiat chief executive Sergio Marchionne on Monday outlined a plan to create a new global car giant that would link up with General Motors' European operations after rescuing bankrupt Chrysler.

"From an engineering and industrial point of view, this is a marriage made in heaven," Marchionne told the Financial Times in an interview published Monday ahead of talks with German ministers on his proposal, which he wants completed by the end of May.

Fiat's share rose by more than six percent to 8.02 euros on the Milan stock exchange on Monday after news of the plan was released.

Opel of Germany forms the core of GM's European operations, which also include Vauxhall in Britain and Saab in Sweden, and Marchionne will need the backing of the German government for his ambitious plan.

The Fiat boss said the Italian carmaker and Opel would form a publicly traded company with revenues of about 80 billion euros (106 billion US dollars) and sales of six or seven million vehicles a year -- putting it on a par with Volkswagen, the world's second biggest maker behind Toyota of Japan.

The new company would make everything from gas-guzzling Jeep utility vehicles in the United States to Opel's mid-range cars and Fiat's tiny but successful Fiat 500.

"You are always taking a big gamble when you do something completely new," Marchionne told the Financial Times, which estimated that up to 9,000 jobs could be cut in the merger.

GM has 10 plants in Europe and Fiat has 11, mainly in Italy.

The Italian car boss chief wants to focus on merging the small and medium-sized operations of Fiat and GM Europe.

Fiat is to take a 20-percent stake in the new Chrysler, the third largest US car maker, following its bankruptcy. The holding can be increased to a 51-percent controlling stake from 2013 as long as Chrysler pays back massive state loans.

In Germany, according to IG Metall trade union official Armin Schild, a member of Opel's supervisory board, Fiat has prepared an offer of less than 750 million euros (990 million US dollars) for Opel.

Schild opposes the deal, telling the Taggespiegel newspaper in an interview published Monday that Opel "would not be strengthened but weakened and the domination over Opel would not end, it would be moved from Detroit to Turin."

The German government has said it will aid any new investor for Opel, which employs nearly 26,000 people in Germany. Marchionne will meet German Economy Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Opel board members on Monday to discuss the idea.

Fiat said in a statement that it could spin off its car division, Fiat Group Automobiles, to join with Opel. Fiat and GM would remain as shareholders.

"Fiat/Opel sounds good to me," Marchionne told the FT, while adding: "If they want Opel first that's fine."

Marchionne, whose priority is the tie-up with Chrysler -- he is to start a tour of its US plants this week -- said he wanted a deal with GM completed in 30 days and the new company created in the three months after.

Fiat said in a statement released late Sunday that the Italian company's board had given "total support" to Marchionne's initiatives.

Any Fiat-GM deal would need to overcome anti-trust hurdles as well as opposition from unions.

Opel union chief Schild said he prefered a tie-up with Canadian parts maker Magna, which he said has joined with Russian investors to propose putting five billion euros into a 50 percent stake in a new Opel group.

© 2009 AFP

[R-Design]

An update on GM's situation:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575AE00204CF4

[R-Design]

One more:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575AF0080B3BA

A quote from the article:

"Production in North America was down 58 per cent for the three months to 371,000 as GM worked to reduce dealer stocks by 105,000 units to 767,000 units."

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Boss315

One more:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575AF0080B3BA

A quote from the article:

"Production in North America was down 58 per cent for the three months to 371,000 as GM worked to reduce dealer stocks by 105,000 units to 767,000 units."

Here's the report from the GM website:

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor...tion/earnings/

[banarcus]

Then they want another $20 billion to survive the rest of the year. I dare say they will cease to exist by the end of the year. Gonesky...

[Gobes32]

Surely they are a lost cause?