Ford Aircraft.

[hako]

Someone sent me this - I didn't know Ford made B24's nor that they made one every 55 minutes. Wonder how long to make a Territory.

Bet you didn't know that Ford had its own pilots to test the B-24 Liberators it was building for the ARMY at the rate of one every 55 MINUTES!!
This was BEFORE Pearl Harbor ! Ford's B-24 Bomber Plant at Willow Run, Mich.
Henry Ford was determined that he could mass produce bombers just as he had done with cars.
He built the Willow Run assembly plant and proved it. It was the world's largest building under one roof.
This film will absolutely blow you away - one B-24 every 55 minutes.
ADOLF HITLER HAD NO IDEA THE U.S. WAS CAPABLE OF THIS KIND OF THING.


http://www.youtube.com/embed/iKlt6rNciTo?rel=0.

[AlanD]

Hi Hako,

If you want to know more about Ford's manufacture of aircraft go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stout_Metal_Airplane

Interestingly one of the people that assisted was J S McDonnell, who went on to found McDonnell aircraft and is today the McDonnel-Douglas that we know.

Cheers

[Spammy]

Read up on how Ford took over the manufacturing of the RR Merlin engines during the war -- Ford spent 11mths redrawing the blueprints to make the tolerances more precise.

Forget total number built (it's huge) but the quailty reject rate was basically zero percent.

[OLD BALDY]

Shame that didn't carry thru to the Territory

[Wmc83]

I thought Packard licence built the RR Merlin's during the war, I read Ford were looked at first but the deal fell through something to do with Henerys "interesting views" on who the good guys were.

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by OLD BALDY

Shame that didn't carry thru to the Territory

Well so far as the I6 is concerned I think that it has.

But suspension bits and sheet metal are another matter.

cheers

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by Wmc83

I thought Packard licence built the RR Merlin's during the war, I read Ford were looked at first but the deal fell through something to do with Henerys "interesting views" on who the good guys were.

Yep, You are correct.

Packard Merlins were the American build of the RR engine, and, amongst other airframes, powered the Mustang (British designation but it caught on). Originally the Mustang was powered with an Allison engine (V-1710-F3R) but had very poor performance at altitude. The RAF provided an airframe or two to RR and a Merlin was fitted transforming the aircraft to a highly capable weapon at altitude. Future versions of the aircraft for the RAF also used the Merlin but some variations returned to using Allison engines, usually these aircraft were used for low level work.

If I look at my RR history, I think I will find that the Ford connection for the Merlin occurred in the UK, (although Henry did reject a deal to build the engine, possibly because Ford USA were overloaded with work on other aircraft) when the British government was looking for alternative production capability for the engine, and it was Ford UK engineers who commented that the tolerances were far too loose for mass production and set about refining the drawings to get the engine into production in their facilities. The Ford Merlin was manufactured in Ford's Trafford Park factory in Manchester, where over 30,000 were produced with none of them being rejected.

During its production run nearly 150,000 Merlins were manufactured. About 75% in the UK and the balance in the USA. In all it powered over 40 types of aircraft and, IMV, it would be fair to say that it was a major contribution to the Allied success in WWII.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Well so far as the I6 is concerned I think that it has.

But suspension bits and sheet metal are another matter.

cheers

Cool, something Ford Fans can be proud of. Being an ex-boeing CEO, I wonder if Allan Mullaly knows this bit of history about his company, maybe he should take notes . A ford F6 fighter jet would be awesome.

Can Ford Aus put together an I6 in 55 minutes?

[Outbackjack]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC_CA-15

We were building aircraft during the 40's as well. And the CA15 was no slouch. But like almost all Australian manufacturing it died a slow death.

[Cheese3]

This isn't aircraft related but the Ford Geelong Stamping Plant ceased pumping out car parts and made military equipment during times of war.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Interestingly one of the people that assisted was J S McDonnell, who went on to found McDonnell aircraft and is today the McDonnel-Douglas that we know.

You mean Boeing.

McDonnell-Douglas merged with Boeing in 1997. It no longer exists as a sole entity.

[XP6]

didnt they make a trimotor plane in the early years(Clive Cussler tragic here...)

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by NX74205

You mean Boeing.

McDonnell-Douglas merged with Boeing in 1997. It no longer exists as a sole entity.

Thanks N74205,

You learn something new everyday. I thought that McD-D has just gotten out of the commercial field but was still an entity making military aircraft.

Cheers

[lra]

A bit off track ...but I just chucked out 2 old ammo boxes I used as toolboxes that were stamped "GMH 1942"

[Nikked]

This is a real Ford Aircraft...

[Bill M]

A good read on Ford's B-24 effort is found in "My forty years with Ford" by Charles Sorenson. (Cast iron Charlie) he was the main architect of Ford's production until 1944. He was instrumental in bringing the B-24 project to successful fruition. He also goes into detail regarding Henry Ford's initial acceptance of the Rolls Royce Merlin project and then the abrupt change of mind by a cranky aging Henry.
Another good read is "Ford in the Service of America" By Timothy J O'Callaghan
Mass production for the military during both world wars.
This gives a good grounding into why the automotive sector is a valuable foundation for manufacturing.

An excellent online photo gallery is here at the Henry Ford museum.

http://collections.thehenryford.org/...ds=b+24+bomber

Ford during WWII

cheers
Bill.

[simon varley]

if you ever find yourself in Dearborn, the Henry Ford museum is a fantastic visit.

[DJR MAN]

Originally Posted by XP6

didnt they make a trimotor plane in the early years(Clive Cussler tragic here...)

And another bit of trivia for the young players, the Ford Tri-motor was the first plane that Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon, ever flew as a learner pilot. One of these is on display in the Smithsonian Institute in Washington DC.

[Iggle Piggle]

That Ford during WWII thing - its appears to have omitted Henry's antisemitic publication 'The International Jew' (fair enough as that was prior to WWII), the war machines Ford produced for Nazi Germany (GM did the same), Hitler's life-size portrait of Ford in his office, and Henry accepting the Grand Cross of the German Eagle.

For balance, nor does it mention him hiring coloured people, women and disabled persons when very few others did/would.

But look into the history of both Ford and GM during WWII and you soon realise how silly we were to expect the decision of local manufacturing to come down to anything more than the bottom dollar.

I'm assuming these facts will likely be deleted.

[9triton]

Originally Posted by Nikked

This is a real Ford Aircraft...

image

went for a spin last year ,in usa ,on a ford trimotor:

very noisy -and rattly....







ford logo on fin:

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Thanks N74205,

You learn something new everyday. I thought that McD-D has just gotten out of the commercial field but was still an entity making military aircraft.

Cheers

Yep the DC9 became the MD80 and MD90, which after the merger became the Boeing 717, which was later discontinued.

[Moby Vic]

The Ford Flivver was an interesting project as well:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/28764...-us-all-pilots

And Ford certainly wasn't churning out B-24s quickly before Pearl Harbor. The Willow Run plant ran into numerous challenges. Production did not become efficient until much later in the war.

[new2ford]

Car manufacturers were not the only ones in major war production. The railway workshops were also major producers. The largest in Australia was probably Chullora which produced over 1,000 aircraft as well as many tanks, ammunition, guns etc etc.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Car manufacturers were not the only ones in major war production. The railway workshops were also major producers. The largest in Australia was probably Chullora which produced over 1,000 aircraft as well as many tanks, ammunition, guns etc etc.

And there is a heap buried in a underbriund bunker there...

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Nikked

And there is a heap buried in a underbriund bunker there...

That's interesting. I know there's some sort of underground system linking Chullora with the air command centre underground at Bankstown.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by new2ford

That's interesting. I know there's some sort of underground system linking Chullora with the air command centre underground at Bankstown.

Not sure how much of it all is true though lol most likely just some folklore...

[2011G6E]

Manufacturing tolerances? In wartime?

"Just good enough to throw them out the door in big numbers" was fairly common until Ford (and others of course) got in on the act and improved things somewhat.

I mean, take the little wartime Jeep as an example...have a look at an original one if you are ever lucky enough (not a careful restoration, but a totally original one), and you'll be shocked at how shoddy the little rattletraps were. However, it was perfectly good enough for something that was, like a lot of kit, basically a throw away item when it broke too badly.

[XR Martin]

Merlins were run on a test stand at full revs until something broke, then they replaced with whatever broke with something stronger. They did this until they were sure nothing was left to break.

They were about as reliable as you could get.

Although in saying that the Wright radial engine in the B17 was pretty tough too, they came back to base still running with cylinders blown off from bullets/shrapnel

[Spammy]

A saw a doco about some guys restorng a ME109. They pulled the engine apart and took it to AMG to get the crank machined and balanced. AMG rang them the next day to tell them it didn't need any work and if it did, they could not get the tolerances/balance as accurate as the orginal factory did anyways.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Manufacturing tolerances? In wartime?

"Just good enough to throw them out the door in big numbers" was fairly common until Ford (and others of course) got in on the act and improved things somewhat.

I mean, take the little wartime Jeep as an example...have a look at an original one if you are ever lucky enough (not a careful restoration, but a totally original one), and you'll be shocked at how shoddy the little rattletraps were. However, it was perfectly good enough for something that was, like a lot of kit, basically a throw away item when it broke too badly.

Yes, manufacturing tolerances in wartime, some were relaxed but don't try to convey that things were sloppily put together, that just didn't happen.
I have looked at original jeeps and am very familiar with their assembly and construction. Shoddy is just plain wrong and it was not throw away.