2014 Falcon features, tech and upgrades

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by flappist

Brave thing to do. In early 2002 I was about 90% sold on a shiny new AU3 XR8 and was on a test drive on a "private road" when the amazingly clever sales guys said, and if you think this one is fast wait until you see the new model next year, it has the Mustang engine.

Result, no sale of XR8 and if the HSV dealer in Noosa had not been such an idiot there was a pretty good chance I would have bought a GTS Coupe before the GT-P was announced.

Ouside the train spotters most Falcon buyers have no idea about any new model until it is actually release and will just buy what is there as it is "the latest". Making the FG2 a supersceded model to all the "normal" people is, I believe, not such a good idea.

They could always do a Microsoft "buy now and get the new version free" although in Ford's case replace free with maybe a low interest offer on 2014 Falcon instead combined with a guaranteed buy back based on carefully laid out and very well explained criteria, like max. kms, condition etc.... There's more then one way to skin a cat , take the gloss of VF and lift current sales. You push FGII now and inform people about 2014 without stalling already low sales.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

They could always do a Microsoft "buy now and get the new version free" although in Ford's case replace free with maybe a low interest offer on 2014 Falcon instead combined with a guaranteed buy back based on carefully laid out and very well explained criteria, like max. kms, condition etc.... There's more then one way to skin a cat , take the gloss of VF and lift current sales. You push FGII now and inform people about 2014 without stalling already low sales.

Im sure they did somthing like that with the EL AU...I dont think it worked well.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by flappist

Brave thing to do. In early 2002 I was about 90% sold on a shiny new AU3 XR8 and was on a test drive on a "private road" when the amazingly clever sales guys said, and if you think this one is fast wait until you see the new model next year, it has the Mustang engine.

Result, no sale of XR8 and if the HSV dealer in Noosa had not been such an idiot there was a pretty good chance I would have bought a GTS Coupe before the GT-P was announced.

Ouside the train spotters most Falcon buyers have no idea about any new model until it is actually release and will just buy what is there as it is "the latest". Making the FG2 a supersceded model to all the "normal" people is, I believe, not such a good idea.

Must admit I am due to swap over my current vehicle G6ET (probably go for a Territory) but part of me thinks best to wait to see what the 2014 Falcon/Territory has to offer. Thats why I have been asking about release dates and watching this thread for any useful information.

I do supply some components for the Automotive industry, but we don't get told a lot (which is fine) But some of the people on here seem have some good information.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Im sure they did somthing like that with the EL AU...I dont think it worked well.

Can't remember, then again if you ownd an EL you probably didn't think going to AU was an upgrade , purely subjective of course. However the 2014 Falcon has been given some good comments from J Mays etc and he's not one to heap praise just for the sake of it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Can't remember, then again if you ownd an EL you probably didn't think going to AU was an upgrade , purely subjective of course. However the 2014 Falcon has been given some good comments from J Mays etc and he's not one to heap praise just for the sake of it.

Actually funny you should mention that. I bough an EL Fairmont in 97 and while I was getting it serviced the sales wombat wandered over to tell me about the new model coming out shortly. I was a bit annoyed that my less than one year old car was about to be supersceded until the first "waterfall" appeared on the showroom floor. I felt a lot better then.

Fortunately by the time I bought my AU in 2000 they had got it together.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

However the 2014 Falcon has been given some good comments from J Mays etc and he's not one to heap praise just for the sake of it.

Yes he's said to be "very excited" about the 2014 car.

[mik]

You would think that Ford oz would have already had some prior info on what the commy was going to get with upgrades, as i`m sure it would be the same with Holden, these are big companies they would have to have contacts that know stuff, or am i watching too many Bond films , and surely some time ago they would have had some of the upgrades the commy in the planning?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by gazza6

Interesting article on the 2014 falcon:

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...219-2eo9j.html

Ford is toying with revealing next year’s all-important facelifted Falcon early, and has also hinted the long-standing nameplate could stick around beyond 2017.

”

There are very good reason for hoping Holden's new Commodore is a smash hit and one key one is it actually improves Falcons odds of survival.

When Holden succeeds it shows them up at Ford and it raises the bar. The VF is a pretty good mid life update and the interior is the best upgrade in materials and finish any Australian car has had, let alone a late update in a models life. Thats got to sting a bit at Ford. The guy who lead the design team on VF worked at Ford for a bit too and I think the interior design lead did too (BA Falcon?) her name certainly rings a bell.

Whatever you think of the VF it is a huge vote of confidence in Holden by GM North America and they aren't just mentioning the Chev brand, they are openly acknowledging and congratulating Holden for the car. Heck they acknowledged who engineered and made it, said they were proud of it and showed the Holden logo at the cars launch! Just a tad different to the softly softly, we can't confirm or deny **** approach Ford NA have taken with Falcon and how it must stay Australia's best kept secret.

If Commodore succeeds the pressure on Ford North America to fund a decent upgrade of Falcon and stay in the race goes up a couple of notches. If they don't they lose to Holden and to GM NA and they will be seen and written about as the company that walked away with its tail between its legs, because they couldn't compete with a national and international hit called Commodore, even though they had its natural competitor in Falcon.

Ford could also face a mass exodus of talented Australian engineers and designers if it turns out post 2016, the only place they can see their work from concept to production in Australia is working at Holden.

For all the talk about business and economics, there is also the human element. The executives at these car companies have healthy egos and they don't like loosing. You can just imagine how smug GM executives get if Commodore succeeds and Ford have basically shut up shop here.

You can go on about ad campaigns and whatever, but competition really improves the breed and thats why I really hope Holden have a winner with VF.

A successful Commodore wont just get us more electronic gadgets for the 2014 Falcon, it is also the best support Falcon could get for a future beyond 2016.

Graziano also strikes me as a fighter and a supporter of Ford staying in the game here in Australia. I'm sure he is leveraging any bit of good news about the Commodore to silence critics in Ford Internationally that Australian manufacturing and component suppliers cant play on a global stage and that a Falcon couldn't be prepared for a world audience.

On a personal note I hope the excellent work done on the VF's interior spells the beginning of the end of the cost cutting/decontenting culture at Ford that has held Falcon back in so many ways over so many years.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by mik

You would think that Ford oz would have already had some prior info on what the commy was going to get with upgrades, as i`m sure it would be the same with Holden, these are big companies they would have to have contacts that know stuff, or am i watching too many Bond films , and surely some time ago they would have had some of the upgrades the commy in the planning?

They would have to have known some of it, but I reckon the comprehensiveness of that interior update would still have been a shock. Ford has traditionally had the best interior finish of the locals and VF really has lept a couple of generations ahead of anything seen here before. That is BEFORE you talk about the huge equipment upgrades.

[Joe5619]

People on here seem to keep saying "Ford discontenting culture". Could someone explain to me what has been discontented from Falcon as from what I can see Ford as done the opposite over the years?

[anto]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

the interior is the best upgrade in materials and finish any Australian car has had, let alone a late update in a models life. Thats got to sting a bit at Ford. .

Thats quite a statement to make, lets not jump the gun here as all we have seen are a few dressed up pictures so far. It may well be but Im not sure how anyone can judge the finish and the touchy feely quality until its actually released.

pictures can be decieving

[mik]

i would agree Anto, that might be a bit of a stretch, we need to see how they fare in real world.

[Road_Warrior]

Yes think it is best to reserve judgement until we can sit in a VF and fiddle with its bits and pieces before commenting on how awesome it is and how the FU will be crap by comparison - because neither car is here yet. I think we all agree the FU needs to bring some greater refinement and interior quality and feel with it, and seeing (and more to the point, feeling) the improvement from the B-series days to the FG, I think they are more than capable of doing this.

On another note, what sort of upgrades are we expecting to the I6?

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

On another note, what sort of upgrades are we expecting to the I6?

I think that's a double sided question. What do we expect, and what do we want/need?

Where is Holden now, 210kw for 3.6 SIDI? Camaro 3.6 is at 240kw, so there's room to move for the General.

The "efficiency and emissions" upgrades might see some extra tech thrown the I6's way, maybe the long awaited direct injection.

I can see a few easier options for Ford though:

1. ~220kw EcoLPI. We know the engine is getting held back. We don't know if they did the suitable testing to sell a higher powered version though. It would at least need the turbo drivetrain which would add costs, but is probably still cheaper than trying to eek power out of the petrol motor.

2. ~5-6psi Turbo 6. The current GT35 engines are badged and marketed 270kw with about 10psi. IIRC the BF 270 motor with the bigger turbo had around 9psi. I'm not sure what figures the current small turbo running similar boost to the original XR6T's would run power wise but I'm sure it could still be a comfortable 230kw and plenty of torque. I don't think development would be an issue either, effectively working backwards from the current package.

I think either option though would be a significant ask, and arent really warranted unless Holden does go for a fuller variant of the 3.6 SIDI.

[ras351]

They aren't seriously calling the next model Falcon FU are they??

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by ras351

They aren't seriously calling the next model Falcon FU are they??

Nobody knows what the 2014 Falcon will be called. Logical progression is FH, however FU has been suggested as an apt "F.U." to the media who want to kill Falcon with their negative reporting.

[ras351]

Cheers, thanks for clarifying that. I was getting worried for a minute then!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I think that's a double sided question. What do we expect, and what do we want/need?

Yes I guess we shouldn't cloud the subject with discussion on things we want, rather we should focus on what the Falcon needs and what can realistically be delivered.

Euro V emissions compliance for the I6 and Ecoboost should be on the list. Especially the latter, it's E5 compliant overseas in other vehicles, no reason it shouldn't be here.

The use of better aero, underbody cladding and the 2nd Gen ZF auto should improve the efficiency of the I6 to return a fuel economy improvement.

It would be nice to think direct injection could turn up on the I6 but I think it is highly unlikely. Cost to do so for an orphan engine in a car that sells in modest numbers doesn't make business sense. If it does turn up, then that is an indicator there are big things planned for the I6 and the Falcon. But we shall see...Holden can offer these features because they use global engines and all the R&D is paid for by someone else.

Incidentally, I see that a 227kw version of Ford's D37 V6 engine is fitted to the current Mustang and Lincoln MKS.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yes I guess we shouldn't cloud the subject with discussion on things we want, rather we should focus on what the Falcon needs and what can realistically be delivered.

A set of D pillars would complement EcoLPI quite nicely and add 200+ sales per month. Whether it can be realistically delivered, probably not. But it would make a nice surprise.

[badoc]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

A set of D pillars would complement EcoLPI quite nicely and add 200+ sales per month. Whether it can be realistically delivered, probably not. But it would make a nice surprise.

Ah, we can only dream...

Alas, I think my BF MKIII will be the last thing with a Falcon name that has D pillars.

[ebv8]

make a stripped out version of the F6 and GT, or have options to delete things
and seeing holden just make a future classic in the 430kw GTS ford has to retaliate for the final model.
how about a GT-P or "HO" with the 5.8L trinity with 494kw thats stripped out (low spec only, no sat nav, no leather, no big wings, no special stereo) and a GT-E with 494kw and all the options. make 351 each of them and that might ensure people get excited about fords after 2016

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by mik

You would think that Ford oz would have already had some prior info on what the commy was going to get with upgrades, as i`m sure it would be the same with Holden, these are big companies they would have to have contacts that know stuff, or am i watching too many Bond films , and surely some time ago they would have had some of the upgrades the commy in the planning?

When Prodrive called it a day, my first thought was they have heard what Holden and HSV are up to with the VF program and looked at Fords response. Both in the car and post 2016. Crunched the numbers and decided to walk away.