Covid 19 -

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by russellw

A couple more graphs. These are based on the percentages of the adult population and show the case rates and mortality rates per 100,000 adults for Australia, NZ, UK and USA.

Notable that the case rates see Australia and NZ very similar and about par with the global rate while the mortality rates for those two countries are well below the global rate.

image

image

I find these graphs really interesting ,but theyre only as good as the accuracy of the content eg the UK is only counting the deaths that happen in hospital ....which would be most cases but still not accurate

was listening to some expert that does modelling on statistics etc and he said that what went on in Wuhan modelled in the least possible way the death rate and infection rate would be at least three times whats reported

[Polyal]

I believe most rational thinking business/capitalist people do harbor the thought is ~200 lives or whatever that count will/may be; is that worth the billions that have been spent. I am certainly one of them.

If the system could of handled it then you could argue perhaps not, but it all changes when it hits someone from YOUR family. If this was "just a flu" then we would have ridden through it with no chance but alas its not so here we are.

For those who are so adament the controls were not a good idea please select someone from your family you are willing to sacrafice.

What I would like to see is a planned relaxation of the rules in regional areas. I look at my situation in a small rural town and if school doesn't return in 1.5 weeks time I will be shaking my head.

Heavily populated areas are a different story and need a different approach but that in itself is harder to manage.

[AlanD]

I have a Cousin who lives in Ontario, Canada. The population there is roughly 50% of Australia's.

As reported at Johns Hopkins CV19 site they currently have a confirmed infection rate about 1.5 times ours (9840) and a death rate almost 8 times ours (490).

But he hasn't lost his sense of humour (and he and his wife are definitely right in the risk category, both post 70 years and she has Parkinsons with the cocktail of medication that that entails), here is what he sent to me:

There isn't any iceberg.
There was an iceberg but it's in a totally different ocean.
The iceberg is in this ocean but it will melt very soon.
There is an iceberg but we didn't hit the iceberg.
We hit the iceberg, but the damage will be repaired very shortly.
The iceberg is a Chinese iceberg.
We are taking on water but every passenger who wants a lifeboat can get a lifeboat, and they are beautiful lifeboats.
Look, passengers need to ask nicely for the lifeboats if they want them.
We don't have any lifeboats, we're not lifeboat distributors.
Passengers should have planned for icebergs and brought their own lifeboats.
I really don't think we need that many lifeboats.
We have lifeboats and they're supposed to be our lifeboats, not the passengers' lifeboats.
The lifeboats were left on shore by the last captain of this ship.
Nobody could have foreseen the iceberg.

Yep. I know it's off topic, but I thought it might bring a bit of humour into the discussion.

Hey Russell - how many members can I pop onto my "ignore" list?

And I wish people would stop quoting those that are already there.

Cheers

[guzzis3]

Previously I mentioned that I thought this thread had a decent signal to noise ratio and levels of respect. The marshall forum obviously isn't an automotive thread, it's guitar amplifiers. Their covid thread became the longest thread ever on that forum the other day, and obviously not on topic to boot. Read it if you dare...243 pages and counting...

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads...thread.111425/

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by guzzis3

Previously I mentioned that I thought this thread had a decent signal to noise ratio and levels of respect. The marshall forum obviously isn't an automotive thread, it's guitar amplifiers. Their covid thread became the longest thread ever on that forum the other day, and obviously not on topic to boot. Read it if you dare...243 pages and counting...

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads...thread.111425/

Geez...I know we've been doing a lot of drum beating on this stuff between us , they've been strumming along big time obviously, now all we need is another forum to blow their own trumpet and there will be a band .

I know it gets a bit willing at times especially when you have emotive topics like this but it kind of allows some to get things off their chest and is an outlet to put stuff out there. I know our moderators will be watching it all closely so that it doesn't get too willing and personal but robust discussion sometimes (within bounds of course) can be a help I think . Obviously it's the hottest of topics on forums other than ours .

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by guzzis3

Previously I mentioned that I thought this thread had a decent signal to noise ratio and levels of respect. The marshall forum obviously isn't an automotive thread, it's guitar amplifiers. Their covid thread became the longest thread ever on that forum the other day, and obviously not on topic to boot. Read it if you dare...243 pages and counting...

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads...thread.111425/

Interesting article highlighted a few pages back from the last.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...__ffn_sectitle

I won’t be able to pretend to be able to interpret all of that, but seems well in line with the results of the limited trials against Covid 19, interestingly the MSM articles seem to suggest its lack of effectiveness.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Interesting article highlighted a few pages back from the last.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...__ffn_sectitle

I won’t be able to pretend to be able to interpret all of that, but seems well in line with the results of the limited trials against Covid 19, interestingly the MSM articles seem to suggest its lack of effectiveness.

Here is a well educated and rational person presenting about treatments including that one.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-...tment/12151770

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by cs123

Here is a well educated and rational person presenting about treatments including that one.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-...tment/12151770

Decent little review piece, excellent that there appears to be multiple options on the horizon, will be interesting to see what the testing data reveals once the trials are finished.

Realistically with the borders remaining shut for an ongoing period of time, a drug like these anti virals could truely remove the virus from the community.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by PooDog

I find these graphs really interesting ,but theyre only as good as the accuracy of the content eg the UK is only counting the deaths that happen in hospital ....which would be most cases but still not accurate

I'm not arguing on that score and have happily admitted that the graphs are based on the data sets currently available which we know includes the (at best) 'fanciful' Chinese ones, the 'let's not count the old folk if they die in an aged care facility' UK ones and the countries that don't really count them at all.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by cs123

Here is a well educated and rational person presenting about treatments including that one.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-...tment/12151770

Dr Norman Swan? Just another rent seeker pushing ABC's anti-Trump message. Completely dismissive of the hydroxychloroquine combination treatment, because Trump heard it's working in small trials.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...e3706035a50563

"When the infection rate was climbing last month, Dr Swan took to social media with predictions that a doubling of reported cases every three days would see numbers rise from 1700 to 7000 or 8000 in a week — with the true number possibly 80,000.

Highly critical of the Morrison government for not treating the crisis seriously enough, or acting with haste, he tweeted: “Primary school maths. Someone should go figure. No magic fairy will bring that down. 14-20 days behind Italy. Believe in maths not magic.”

In another tweet, Dr Swan said: “Bring the public with you. Young people as well as the elderly will die unnecessarily if we don’t act. Today’s cases are the result of what we didn’t do two weeks ago.”

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Dr Norman Swan? Just another rent seeker pushing ABC's anti-Trump message. Completely dismissive of the hydroxychloroquine combination treatment, because Trump heard it's working in small trials.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...e3706035a50563

"When the infection rate was climbing last month, Dr Swan took to social media with predictions that a doubling of reported cases every three days would see numbers rise from 1700 to 7000 or 8000 in a week — with the true number possibly 80,000.

Highly critical of the Morrison government for not treating the crisis seriously enough, or acting with haste, he tweeted: “Primary school maths. Someone should go figure. No magic fairy will bring that down. 14-20 days behind Italy. Believe in maths not magic.”

In another tweet, Dr Swan said: “Bring the public with you. Young people as well as the elderly will die unnecessarily if we don’t act. Today’s cases are the result of what we didn’t do two weeks ago.”

Right, everything comes down to Trump with you doesn't it. You've overdosed on the koolaid.

The maths has been proven in countries that didn't take decisive action.

[MITCHAY]

We can all argue what we could have done or should be doing but I think for the time being we stay the course for a while yet.

For better or worse we are on this path we are now and despite some issues we are in a better position then a whole lot of countries. Some of that is luck due to being an island on the **** end of the world but not all of it is.

The results are showing promise and last thing I would want to do is either lift the restrictions too early and certainly don't think there is justification for more.

It's all a **** sandwich but I reckon our bread is much thicker than elsewhere. The bread basically doesn't exist in UK and US at all.

There is a lot of legitimate criticism of the WHO and China, but a lot of it is just trying to shift the blame for lack of action. Particularly in the US.

Australia obviously had enough info and cause for alarm to declare it a pandemic and start preparing ahead of the WHO so other leaders could have too.

[CoupeKing]

[Bossxr8]

So it's been confirmed that the WHO, were tweeting that they had no evidence to believe that the coronavirus could actually be transmitted from person to person, after there were 40 something reported cases. Can they seriously be that incompetent? This was when the US closed it's borders to the Chinese, and the WHO critisized the US for doing it, saying there was no pandemic. Idiots.

Then around the same time, the Chinese banned all flights into Wuhan, but were happy for flights heading out to continue. So they knew the virus existed, but were more than happy to spread it around the world. What a bunch of ****'s.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So it's been confirmed that the WHO, were tweeting that they had no evidence to believe that the coronavirus could actually be transmitted from person to person, after there were 40 something reported cases. Can they seriously be that incompetent? This was when the US closed it's borders to the Chinese, and the WHO critisized the US for doing it, saying there was no pandemic. Idiots.

Then around the same time, the Chinese banned all flights into Wuhan, but were happy for flights heading out to continue. So they knew the virus existed, but were more than happy to spread it around the world. What a bunch of ****'s.

We went ahead of WHO so we obviously had enough intel to do so. If we had enough to inform that the decision, then the US and UK did too. The failings of the WHO and China should not absolve those governments of their failings.

We all know both the WHO and China have ****ed the world over but you still have to hold the governments of countries accountable for lack of action.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So it's been confirmed that the WHO, were tweeting that they had no evidence to believe that the coronavirus could actually be transmitted from person to person, after there were 40 something reported cases. Can they seriously be that incompetent? This was when the US closed it's borders to the Chinese, and the WHO critisized the US for doing it, saying there was no pandemic. Idiots.

Then around the same time, the Chinese banned all flights into Wuhan, but were happy for flights heading out to continue. So they knew the virus existed, but were more than happy to spread it around the world. What a bunch of ****'s.

February 13th, well after the Chinese government knew of the high risk of human to human transmission, and the number of deaths in China were rising rapidly, the Chinese embassy in Canberra released the following statement - after the Australian Government announced an extension to the Chinese travel ban:

“We express our deep regret and dissatisfaction over the Australian government’s announcement.

“The World Health Organisation has repeatedly stressed that it does not recommend putting travel and trade restrictions on China.

“Only Australia and a small number of countries have taken such extreme measures which are an overreaction indeed.

“We urge the Australian side to respect WHO’s professional recommendations, and lift the restrictions as early as possible.”

Unbelievable. The Chinese Government wanted travel bans lifted, knowing that potential arrivals from China could be infected with Covid-19, and possibly spread the virus in Australia. And in the 57 other countries that had Chinese travel bans in place at the time.

The WHO did in fact know of human to human transmission. And said so earlier on January 14th at a press conference in Geneva by Maria Van Kerkhove of the WHO's emerging diseases unit who stated "From the information that we have it is possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission". Later on the same day, the WHO sent the following Tweet..

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

WTF??

WHO didn't even bother to asses the situation for themselves, before posting that information to the world?? Taking the word of a country that is widely known for misleading and hiding the truth??

After the WHO finally decided to investigate, and actually go to China, on January 30th, they announced that the outbreak had become a "public health emergency of international concern over the global outbreak of novel coronavirus." But still sucked up to China with statements like "the Chinese government is to be congratulated for the extraordinary measures it has taken to contain the outbreak", and "The speed with which China detected the outbreak, isolated the virus, sequenced the genome and shared it with WHO and the world are very impressive, and beyond words. So is China’s commitment to transparency and to supporting other countries." Remember this was January 30th. After China's Covid cases were rising very rapidly (but kept hidden), and there were 18 other countries with reported Covid cases. But the WHO even tried to play that down!

Read the full statement below. It truly is unbelievable how far up China's a**e these guys are.

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/deta...rus-(2019-ncov)

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Read the full statement below. It truly is unbelievable how far up China's a**e these guys are.

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/deta...rus-(2019-ncov)

Hmm.. not sure why that link isn't working on this forum?

Too late to edit my post so I'll try another way. Go to the link below and look for the article posted 30th January titled "WHO Director-General's statement on IHR Emergency Committee on Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)". Should be 3rd article from the top.

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/4

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So it's been confirmed that the WHO, were tweeting that they had no evidence to believe that the coronavirus could actually be transmitted from person to person, after there were 40 something reported cases. Can they seriously be that incompetent? This was when the US closed it's borders to the Chinese, and the WHO critisized the US for doing it, saying there was no pandemic. Idiots.

Then around the same time, the Chinese banned all flights into Wuhan, but were happy for flights heading out to continue. So they knew the virus existed, but were more than happy to spread it around the world. What a bunch of ****'s.

We also have confirmation that the whole coronavirus is a hoax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE

[Ross 1]

Originally Posted by cs123

We also have confirmation that the whole coronavirus is a hoax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE

From such a reliable source, I’m convinced

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by cs123

We also have confirmation that the whole coronavirus is a hoax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE

Selective grab of video. It's an attempt to paint a certain picture but it fails as usual.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/de...-hoax-comment/

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Selective grab of video. It's an attempt to paint a certain picture but it fails as usual.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/de...-hoax-comment/

Can't you discern when someone is extracting the urine?

[Cav]

Originally Posted by russellw

Can't you discern when someone is extracting the urine?

Does that mean he is a sucker?

[CyberWasp]

The next big question to be debated is the new government phone app for tracking people and their movements.
I suspect it will allow them to backtrack people who have been exposed and who has interacted with them so testing and isolation can be implemented when needed.

Who is going to download and use it? Who is not, and for what reasons?

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

The next big question to be debated is the new government phone app for tracking people and their movements.
I suspect it will allow them to backtrack people who have been exposed and who has interacted with them so testing and isolation can be implemented when needed.

Who is going to download and use it? Who is not, and for what reasons?

I will not be downloading the app, because that is another step towards big brother aka Aust govt keeping tabs on every one of us at all times.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

The next big question to be debated is the new government phone app for tracking people and their movements.
I suspect it will allow them to backtrack people who have been exposed and who has interacted with them so testing and isolation can be implemented when needed.

Who is going to download and use it? Who is not, and for what reasons?

Hey, the ATO has enough info on me and my business.
Next the banks have enough info on me re my business and home loans.
I ain't going to load that app at all, they have enough info on me and I'm sure they don't need an app to find me, up in the sky its a bird its a plane its a satelite.
I'm complying by the rules and my family......

[FPV8U]

If I received a positive diagnosis and we are still in a position where an anti viral hasn’t been approved as a genuine solution I would download the app, if not I’d just go into 100% ISO on medication until given a clean bill of health.

[Tickford.]

Well what do you know, a lot of countries around the world, including the Australian Government, are now asking China to come clean as to the origin of this synthetic virus.

The virus that started with people eating 'bats' at a 'seafood' market. There's something obviously not right with that statement in itself. So the Chinese f**ked up from the very beginning with releasing statements like that.

[MITCHAY]

I will not use the app because I do not trust them to not abuse it despite the positive effect it could potentially have.

That sentiment exists because of years of legislation being abused. The metadata rules originated for the purposes of enabling law enforcement agencies to prosecute serious crimes which I agree with, but over time everyone found a reason to get in on it and now they want 7 years worth instead of 2.

They say they could make it mandatory if they don't have enough voluntary participation so I'd like to see how that is possible. How the **** is that different to the CCP?

As a rule I don't have data or Bluetooth enabled unless I need to use it anyway. Is that gonna be illegal?

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

How the **** is that different to the CCP?

Well in fairness to the state and federal governments we haven’t been locked into our houses with welded bars yet, or been chased down the street by teams in hazmat suits

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Well in fairness to the state and federal governments we haven’t been locked into our houses with welded bars yet, or been chased down the street by teams in hazmat suits

No we haven't and I hope it never happens. No ****ing way we would shut up anyway, well I'd hope.

I was referencing the CCP social credit system where they are able to track everyone and it is not opt in.

There is suggestion they will force this on us if not enough participate voluntarily.

The trust deficit exists in our country not because of the fault of citizens but governments.

It would be a useful tool but it's not our fault we are sceptical at all was my point.