Ex-Holden workers ready to build electric cars at a 'moment's notice'

[Trump]

A bit of a nothing article, but interesting nonetheless:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/th...23-p4yyrg.html

[zipping]

Last time I looked at EV sales figures total got a complete shock. Sure they din't include Tesla but whose gonna buy said cars.

[Fordblue1000]

Plenty of people buying into the EV market these days. The lead would be the outlander phev. The take up of this vehicle has seen all sold last year. The fleet market is going strong in this sector. Wait till the renault zoe comes available next month. This zoe has a range of 400 klms. The bmw i3 is gaining in numbers. Will be interesting to see if hyundai bring out an ev soon too. Then look to the future in europe etc as to whats happening there. Like the porsche mission E. A 400klm range with a 12 minute charge time... but it will take time and until our market accepts their fear of range anxiety it will slowly gain a markwt share. Would be great if holdens site re commenced making cars again. In any form as it is a great facility that can easily be set up again.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Fordblue1000

but it will take time and until our market accepts their fear of range anxiety it will slowly gain a markwt share.

Unfortunately i think this will remain a sticking point with electric cars in the same way dedicated gas cars were shunned from fear of becoming stranded.
I've lost count of how many times people have asked whether im afraid ill run out of gas when they realise my wagon is dedicated gas.
To be honest i was sceptical myself for many years and if it wasn't for finding a wagon in silhouette i doubt i'd have ever given an Egas Falcon a chance, now i'd hate to be without it and my anxiety has shifted to if/when LPG will be phased out.
In the two and a half years i've owned it i've racked up 60,000k's and the closest i've come to running out was on one occasion when i tested it to see how close to empty i could go before it left me stranded and even then i didnt find the bottom, mind you, with 116 usable litres and a range of up to 1000km, i'd have to be trying to run it dry and would only have myself to blame if i did.
Electric cars are a long way off of mainstream in my opinion.

[prydey]

Electric cars might give some people a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside, thinking they are helping to save the planet, but where do they think the power comes from when they plug them in?

Coal!

Unless you live in SA and then you are just grateful to have power most of the time
The grid here struggles to cope as it is so demand can't increase too much or you'll have to choose between getting to work in the morning or having your lights on in the house

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by prydey

Electric cars might give some people a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside, thinking they are helping to save the planet, but where do they think the power comes from when they plug them in?

Coal!

Unless you live in SA and then you are just grateful to have power most of the time
The grid here struggles to cope as it is so demand can't increase too much or you'll have to choose between getting to work in the morning or having your lights on in the house

But they are doing something.
See their local pollutants from the vehicle...gone.
Power source, well it depends where they're from, some have coal, some have hydro, solar, etc. Extra load is minimal.

Fact of the matter is that one electric car is one less petrol powered pollutant on the road.

[Trump]

There is one elephant in the room people are still not seeing. The manufacturing process of the batteries is still very toxic and energy intensive. I remember hearing one engineer state that one EV had the same environmental effect as fifty fossil fuel powered vehicles due to the battery. And then there's the matter of disposal/recycling them...

[commodorenutt]

It's merely shifting the greenhouse gas emissions out of their backyard and into someone elses.

Look at WA where only 7% of electricity was from renewable or clean sources. That leaves a whopping 93% of polluting power stations generating energy for these "zero emissions" EVs. That's doing absolutely NOTHING for the environment, then you need to weigh up the environmental cost of manufacturing the battery, and the eventual recycling/dumping/polluting at the end of it's viable life.

Salient points for those saying EVs are the perfect answer. They aren't.

[Electrolyte Burns]

Well I think most of us will be driving them in 10 years or so.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Trump

There is one elephant in the room people are still not seeing. The manufacturing process of the batteries is still very toxic and energy intensive. I remember hearing one engineer state that one EV had the same environmental effect as fifty fossil fuel powered vehicles due to the battery. And then there's the matter of disposal/recycling them...

This is very true.
Though there are a number of initiatives world wide to get batteries recycled, re use those rare metals.

http://www.batteryrecycling.org.au/r...he-environment

[FairmontGS]

Pure electric that are actually usable? Not in our lifetimes.

But advanced hybrid for sure. Camry hybrid @ $28k drive away was a great thing.

[csv8]

If cars go electric, and they have to be recharged, that will take 2-3+ hours. Who will wait that long at a re-charging station ? Sounds good in theory but Greenies have it all wrong.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by csv8

If cars go electric, and they have to be recharged, that will take 2-3+ hours. Who will wait that long at a re-charging station ? Sounds good in theory but Greenies have it all wrong.

Fast charging has been implemented, held back by car limitations. They're looking at 350KW charging stations. Backed by all manufacturers.

https://electrek.co/2017/12/21/first...tation-europe/

Still not fast (around 20min) but not hours.

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Pure electric that are actually usable? Not in our lifetimes.

But advanced hybrid for sure. Camry hybrid @ $28k drive away was a great thing.

I think they will be, there is a growing market, especially with fuel prices going up all the time, many non enthusiasts who live close to the city see the benefit. It is a start, small one, but it is a start.
Camry Hybrid while, being a Camry is a good idea and will be the bridging until full electric (or Hydrogen) is implemented.

Personally, I'd only get an electric car to drive to work each day (i don't drive now cause of having to fuel up twice to three times a week, servicing, etc. I PT it and save a shed load of $$). We already have free car park and they have a couple of charge stations. So i'd drive up, charge while i am at work, drive home and charge again. Leave my petrol car for weekends and outside of work.

[FalconXV]

If this happens, all government city vehicles (where there's charging infrastructure) should be these.

[Syndrome]

213,872 cars listed for sale on www.carsales.com.au

62 of them are electric powered.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/ele...srcx=makemodel

Don't see any business case to build them locally at the moment.

[commodorenutt]

Touche!

[raised by monkeys]

I'm sure there is some power/energy/emissions which overall i.e. between manufacturing and running of petrol powered cars; where electric cars have less impact on the environment. Gupta is bringing some hope to our state/community with potentially something good in the horizon. I think battery power is the future and I'm its got the government interested which I'm sure will result in financial support. Mr Weatherill's in town scoping out Gupta's projects currently.

Besides, when my power drops out again maybe I can plug my SA built electric car into my house so my fridge stays cold

[raised by monkeys]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-2...-boost/9350628

[HO 3]

I think future technology improvements with the internal combustion engine will way and above outstrip future advances in battery technology which is what is needed to make EV a viable option for the masses. The Tesla EV Truck for example. I wonder how much the non paying, just there for the ride battery pack in this EV Prime Mover actually weighs?

Cheers Mick

[FalconXV]

Best approach would be to hedge their bets with an EV and internal combustion.

[Bossxr8]

2 key sticking points. GM will not let any other car manufacturer move in. GM will see them as a future competitor to the Bolt and all the other EV's they are working on and will make sure they have no future competition. They did it with the last guy who wanted to use the Commodore platform too. And i'm talking GM here, not Holden. GM own all the assets and have complete control over them.

And secondly no ones buying EV's. Do they think they can run the factory by building and selling 5 cars a day? It's an absolute pipe dream. Never going to happen.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

2 key sticking points. GM will not let any other car manufacturer move in. GM will see them as a future competitor to the Bolt and all the other EV's they are working on and will make sure they have no future competition. They did it with the last guy who wanted to use the Commodore platform too. And i'm talking GM here, not Holden. GM own all the assets and have complete control over them.

And secondly no ones buying EV's. Do they think they can run the factory by building and selling 5 cars a day? It's an absolute pipe dream. Never going to happen.

Since they are using an ultra lean manufacturing method (iStream) and would therefore not need presses etc, couldn't they just find another site?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by HO 3

I think future technology improvements with the internal combustion engine will way and above outstrip future advances in battery technology which is what is needed to make EV a viable option for the masses. The Tesla EV Truck for example. I wonder how much the non paying, just there for the ride battery pack in this EV Prime Mover actually weighs?

Cheers Mick

I don't agree with that. Battery technology is not just limited to automotive, the R&D will be applied to all facets of battery use, mobility, wearable technologies, laptops, electricity storage, cars, etc.
A far more greater market to spread the costs across. Not only that with the discovery of such materials as graphene, advancements in batteries are just stating.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I don't agree with that. Battery technology is not just limited to automotive, the R&D will be applied to all facets of battery use, mobility, wearable technologies, laptops, electricity storage, cars, etc.
A far more greater market to spread the costs across. Not only that with the discovery of such materials as graphene, advancements in batteries are just stating.

Do you realise there are MANY companies working on that very issue as I type?

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

It's merely shifting the greenhouse gas emissions out of their backyard and into someone elses.

Look at WA where only 7% of electricity was from renewable or clean sources. That leaves a whopping 93% of polluting power stations generating energy for these "zero emissions" EVs. That's doing absolutely NOTHING for the environment, then you need to weigh up the environmental cost of manufacturing the battery, and the eventual recycling/dumping/polluting at the end of it's viable life.

Salient points for those saying EVs are the perfect answer. They aren't.

Not sure where you get your figures from?
Sure the big four use coal for base load but at least 50% of our power comes from gas turbines powered by natural gas.
We have the Ord river providing hydro, Wellington dam also.

And about 500Mw coming from wind generation. That alone is near 50% of muja, our biggest generator.

We generate huge amounts using gas. It was a big reason behind the north west shelf pipeline, that is getting expanded.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by HO 3

I think future technology improvements with the internal combustion engine will way and above outstrip future advances in battery technology which is what is needed to make EV a viable option for the masses. The Tesla EV Truck for example. I wonder how much the non paying, just there for the ride battery pack in this EV Prime Mover actually weighs?

Cheers Mick

That tesla truck was a (bad) joke.
If they were serious and not on some marketing stunt they would have chosen a tractor where weight and torque are actually good things.

Then I might have taken them seriously.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Do you realise there are MANY companies working on that very issue as I type?

I'd imagine so, i have read many articles but not concentrated on the outcomes.
Here is one with Samsung in near production ready graphene coated batteries.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/29/...fast-charging/

[Trump]

Batteries will need to improve several orders of magnitude (both in capacity and environmental impact) before electric motors become viable and slot-in replacements for internal combustion power units.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Not sure where you get your figures from?
Sure the big four use coal for base load but at least 50% of our power comes from gas turbines powered by natural gas.
We have the Ord river providing hydro, Wellington dam also.

And about 500Mw coming from wind generation. That alone is near 50% of muja, our biggest generator.

We generate huge amounts using gas. It was a big reason behind the north west shelf pipeline, that is getting expanded.

I posted the reference link in another thread about EVs, because the clown with the Tesla wanting a "greenhouse gas tax" on fossil-fuel burning cars was from WA. It's a govt, climate, or energy website that had data & graphs.

Regardless of if they are coal or gas, they are still producing carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide, and they made up 93% of the power generated on the data shown.

If they want to claim gas fired power stations as clean, then it could be argued that LPG cars are clean compared to petrol too.......

[hackney]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

I posted the reference link in another thread about EVs, because the clown with the Tesla wanting a "greenhouse gas tax" on fossil-fuel burning cars was from WA. It's a govt, climate, or energy website that had data & graphs.

Regardless of if they are coal or gas, they are still producing carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide, and they made up 93% of the power generated on the data shown.

If they want to claim gas fired power stations as clean, then it could be argued that LPG cars are clean compared to petrol too.......

There was a discussion around this on my local ABC radio(EV’s)have to agree they spruik how “clean” they are,but,you are still charging from coal fire powered stations.(Don’t mention this to “Greenie” though.) Cheers