Climate chaos? Dont believe it.

Quadcams · 09-11-2006, 08:28 PM

Do you believe in global warming or is it just being perverted for the service of social and political causes, this artical will make you wonder. Climate chaos? Dont believe it

Jock260 · 09-11-2006, 08:43 PM

i think its all bullshit

MAGPIE · 09-11-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jock260

i think its all bullshit

Ditto

Bill_R · 09-11-2006, 08:56 PM

Haven't read the article but I have an opinion on it all.
Yes, we do have an impact on the environment and we need to quantify what that is.
We are only on the earth for a very short time and we tend to think of things as static and never-changing. The earth is a dynamic system. It's those dynamics and the system we need to better understand. Throughout time the earth has gone through many cycles of warming and cooling. Rivers that we try and keep to their current course have sought new routes. What was once a rainforest became a desert. Land has been cut off from mainland to become islands.
Many tend to jump on the bandwagon because of the hype that surrounds global warming and their desire for permanence. Predictions are often made with narrow models that don't take into account the system effects. One example is a guy in the 80's who made a lot of cash from the lecture circuit with his predictions of how some coral islands we be no longer due to the sea rise from golbal warming. What he didn't take into account was how the rate of growth of live coral is a function of temperature. Another example is how we've built towns on rich fertile flood plains (doh - how did they become rich?). We blame the drying up of rivers on global warming or the loss of trees without realising that we tend to go in cycles of flood and drought dominated regimes in Australia. We simply haven't been here long enough to pick up the cycles.
I'm not going to say that global warming and other similar issues aren't problems but I think we need to focus more laterally and look at the entire system. My appreciation is of the fact that the "environment" is dynamic, that it can change but also show some evidence of cyles. I think it's brilliant!

mik · 09-11-2006, 09:15 PM

interesting read , i always thought these blokes were just guessing, we are still cave men in the big picture.

BlueJ · 09-11-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadcams

this artical will make you wonder.[/URL]

Hmmm...do you choose to believe that article and not believe all the solid scientific evidence that is out there? I am not having a go, I am just curious. And we are all entitled to our opinion so you can safely ignore mine if you wish.

I believe in climate change.

As this is a car forum I think the main point is can we continue to enjoy our cars or will they destroy the planet? Coal-fired power stations are the big CO2 polluters, and we can all choose green electricity for our houses and businesses if we want to reduce our household CO2 emissions.

Private cars are down the list of major CO2 polluters. I say we may not have all that long until 98RON becomes too expensive, better enjoy the car now (while using green electricity at home of course).

rodderz · 09-11-2006, 10:19 PM

could be a bit of both

I think that no doubt we are polluting the environment with gases, fumes etc which may contribute to the hothouse/greenhouse effect, but the gradual heating up could be the cycle too.... the earth for millions of years has goine through ice ages, warm patches etc

Barry_v · 09-11-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueJ

I believe in climate change.

this article does not dispute climate change, but rather its severity, effect and cause.

I tend to agree with it, but I dont think its such a bad thing if people believe it and find more efficient ways of producing power.

MO · 09-11-2006, 11:01 PM

Cycles come...cycles go..we have'nt had records for long enough for the boffins to come up with anything concrete...its life!

Tote · 09-11-2006, 11:27 PM

A very interesting read, however we are still stuffing the planet even if the doomsday merchants wishes don't come true. You don't realsie how clean the air is here in oz until you go somewhere it's not. Attached is a picture of Atlanta airport in August, the whole of Georgia and Tennesee was this smoggy for the week I was there. This was taken on a "fine and sunny" day. Apparently the pollution is from old coal fired power stations that don't have the scrubbers ours have.

GK · 09-11-2006, 11:32 PM

There were 2 recent reports given to the English parliament. It's the doomsday scenario one that has caused the big fuss, not the moderate one.

I also think that the earth moves in cycles larger than we understand. I also don't believe that the evolutionary long earth theory is correct either.

This amazing planet, the solar system we sit in, the incredible balance of nature and it's interconnectedness demonstrates in my view clear evidence of design and purpose, rather than the processes of time and chance.

My opinion!

I also think that scaremongering over global warming will inevitably be an excuse for governments to take more tax off us, and most of the populous will probably thank them for it!

GK

Van D · 09-11-2006, 11:49 PM

Whilst it is no doubt changing, it's the overall severity i'm not sure about..

Still, look at places that have bad pollution and the climate changes they've suffered. We've even taken a chunk out of the ozone which has supposedly had an affect.

I can't wait to see China's air in a few years, with their oversized population and new found love of cars, i'm sure it'd be great.. pft.

Still, I like breathing clean air. The less pollution the better it is for me.

normxb · 10-11-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

Cycles come...cycles go..we have'nt had records for long enough for the boffins to come up with anything concrete...its life!

MO , I saw a program on Discovery Channel some time ago , & a guy on there said from his research what's happening now is similar to the very early 1900's .

Another thing , every time I see the Yanks send the Shuttle up , I wonder what that's doing to the atmosphere ? ?

GK · 10-11-2006, 01:45 AM

Hey Norm,

Just reading your signature reveals your commitment to a fine Ford family!

Good job!

GK

havoc19 · 10-11-2006, 03:01 AM

my opinion is that ofcourse all this **** is having an effect on the planet as for the severity i believe this point to be moot becoz if u believe its gonna **** us up soon they will say we will change **** but wont if u believe its not gonna **** us up soon we will say not our problem its another generations and so wont change **** so either way were ******

pb02 · 10-11-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

Cycles come...cycles go..we have'nt had records for long enough for the boffins to come up with anything concrete...its life!

I agree... I mean people are telling us what the weather will be like in 10 years from now, yet they can't accurately predict a 5 day weather forecast!!!!

_

merlin · 10-11-2006, 08:10 AM

I believe in global warming, there is definatly evidence to support this, these types of articles have the same vested interest (probably written by a power company) as the environmentalists they are trying to discredit - everyone has an agenda...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

I also don't believe that the evolutionary long earth theory is correct either.

This amazing planet, the solar system we sit in, the incredible balance of nature and it's interconnectedness demonstrates in my view clear evidence of design and purpose, rather than the processes of time and chance.

GK

I agree with you - I was taught Darwinism at high school and then further at university - and I reckon it is a load of codswallop if you ask me - how someone decided that it is the one true answer and it is taught in schools is beyond me. In 100 years time I reckon we will laugh at the theory kind of like we used to think the Earth was flat.

ZA-289 · 10-11-2006, 10:10 AM

How can you say it's not true!

The planet is obviously stuffed!
Weather has gone crazy! Rain? what's rain?

Sapper · 10-11-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueJ

Coal-fired power stations are the big CO2 polluters, and we can all choose green electricity for our houses and businesses if we want to reduce our household CO2 emissions.

Very true. Don't forget that people love to hate cars and considering how little energy we get from traditional 'green' power sources (read: wind, solar, tidal) the idea of (hippies, stop reading now) nuclear power is becoming much more feasible. Besides, until countries like China and India come up to our level of environmental conservation (believe it or not, we're not that bad), whatever we do will make little difference to the grand scheme of things.

bob^ · 10-11-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

Cycles come...cycles go..we have'nt had records for long enough for the boffins to come up with anything concrete...its life!

Yep I agree. Whilst the climate is changing, I'm sure it has changed many other times.
Same as the drought. I think the only reason it's having such a big impact on is this time is we have more people using the water, compared to previous droughts.

turboute · 10-11-2006, 06:28 PM

The way I see it - People who are interested in the environment want to save it. The ones who ignore / dont care about it are not so one sided on the matter. The people commissioned to do most studies will have studied the subject for a long time - what was driving them through it? - most likely their passion for the subject and their want to 'save the world' so I would expect their studies to have a bias to what their beliefs are. Face it anyone else doing that amount of study who was not interested in the environment would have chosen engineering / buisiness etc where you can earn decent money...

There are many cycles that the earth goes through - I found out one the other day related to the earth motion around the sun - it has an eliptical path but the shape of this elipse varies - some years we pass closer to the sun than others - I would say this would have a much greater influence on climate change than anything man is capable of doing at the moment (neuclear war not included in that statement).

I am all for saving the environment and making a bit of effort but not at rediculous costs and due to assumptions that are not well proven.

70caprigt3k · 10-11-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb02

I agree... I mean people are telling us what the weather will be like in 10 years from now, yet they can't accurately predict a 5 day weather forecast!!!!

_

Thats a bloody good point, The time we have spent on this planet in the big scheme of things is absolutley miniscule and there is no way we can tell the cycles/trends based on a few hundred years. That being said it can't hurt to cut the amount of emmisions to a sensible level.

Outbackjack · 10-11-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

I agree with you - I was taught Darwinism at high school and then further at university - and I reckon it is a load of codswallop if you ask me - how someone decided that it is the one true answer and it is taught in schools is beyond me. In 100 years time I reckon we will laugh at the theory kind of like we used to think the Earth was flat.

In 100 years from now the book that you are eluding to will be quaint remnant of times gone by. The common knowledge of the average person will bring on its demise..... it is already starting to happen.

Outbackjack · 10-11-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70caprigt3k

Thats a bloody good point, The time we have spent on this planet in the big scheme of things is absolutley miniscule and there is no way we can tell the cycles/trends based on a few hundred years. That being said it can't hurt to cut the amount of emmisions to a sensible level.

It is much easier to calculate trends than short term out comes. A bit like the stock market.

Quadcams · 10-11-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

There are many cycles that the earth goes through - I found out one the other day related to the earth motion around the sun - it has an eliptical path but the shape of this elipse varies - some years we pass closer to the sun than others - I would say this would have a much greater influence on climate change than anything man is capable of doing at the moment (neuclear war not included in that statement).

I am all for saving the environment and making a bit of effort but not at rediculous costs and due to assumptions that are not well proven.

Mate thats the way i see it untill we fully understand the full cycles the planet goes through we have no hope of predicting climate change accurately but people in power can sure make you believe what they want you to believe.

MO · 10-11-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadcams

Mate thats the way i see it untill we fully understand the full cycles the planet goes through we have no hope of predicting climate change accurately but people in power can sure make you believe what they want you to believe.

Or extremists who have their own agenda...now I don't think for one minute that our oil driven society has'nt in some SMALL way added to the problem...however..if one looks at the industrial revolution and the pollution that came out of that, what is happening now is small in comparison.

If any of you care to research pics from that era..in particular Manchester in the UK...it was so thick with smog it was unreal.

We have cleaned up our act since then and still have some way to go..but we are left with a cycle that this home of ours is going through...it maybe 1 million years old it maybe 100 million years old..nobody can prove it beyond doubt that we are the sole cause of the current problem!