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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
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Hi There
My father in law recently passed away & we are cleaning up his property. I stumbled across this in the paddock. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C5...KcD0vZHv90VYUf It's a FoMoCo V4. He had some Transit Vans so i guess it either came out of one or he was planning to put it in.?? Just wondering how rare these are & if they are of value.? I would hate to see it get binned or recycled & would rather see it rescued if it's a worthwhile exercise for someone. Cheers |
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#2 | ||
RS The Faster Fords
![]() Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Westralia
Posts: 1,691
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They were used in the Thames vans aswell, vary rare old things now. I think they were also used in some UK/ Euro vehicles too, Corsair, Capri maybe?
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much of a demand for them here but as you say it'd be a shame to see it go to scrap.
__________________
Escort RS2000 Restored factory a/c and alloys. TD Cortina Unrestored 35 000km 6cyl manual. Mk1 GT Cortina Project. FG XR50 Daily. |
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,587
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From memory there was two types, the German Cologne one was better.
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,821
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pretty sure that's an Essex, but no idea what the gearbox is
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#6 | ||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,560
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Contact any local ford or local car clubs in your area as they may help you getting it passed onto someone who might want the engine.
Cheers |
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,821
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where are you anyway? if it turns over I may be interested
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#8 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
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The motor is in NE Vic. Near Wangaratta.
Unfortunately I am 3 hours away so can’t check if it turns over right now. In hindsight it may have been in the shed all this time & maybe just dragged out recently. Next time I’m up there I will check. If it turns over I might bring it back home. I have some more pics including casting numbers. (Couldn’t find an engine no) But I won’t be home till mid next week. I will post then. There’s also a couple of transit vans. Tip Top bread vans I think. They are pretty trashed but probably could make one out of the 2. It’s not a project I want to take on as I have a HZ panel van on the go at the moment. I think this would be a nice motor for a Capri. Escort or early cortina. If it’s fixable of course. Cheers |
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#9 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 387
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This would be good for someone who needs one for resto of an original Transit, but to be honest, they did not have a good reputation when new. Not that they broke, just they were rough running, rough idling, and got clunky when the balance shaft drive gears got worn, and being fairly low-geared they seemed to wear out pretty quickly.
A common conversion was to put in a Falcon six, but then the gearing was wrong so you ended up with an over-revving 6 cylinder. I remember one of the Falcon motors getting built into a motorhome by a Ford Dealer, and he went the extra mile of putting in a higher ratio Falcon diff centre to keep the rpm down. This all led to Ford Australia producing a Falcon engined Transit at the factory, which was a decent vehicle for highway use. The pity was that the V4 was the same basic design as the V6, which was a "magic" engine as fitted to the V6 Capri (late 1960's, early 1970's?). Both engines were built as 60deg Vee, which is perfect for a V6, but compromised for a V4 as the balance is wrong, hence the fitment of a gear driven balance shaft. The V6 was great. A bit the same as the original Commodore 3.8 V6 was known as a cut-down Buick V8, so was running with 90deg vee, perfect for the V8, but requiring a balance shaft in a V6. Economics of manufacture is the reason for producing a range of engines with the same Vee angle, although compromises are made. Doesn't seem to make them fly apart or even wear out any quicker, just have inherent vibrations which require counter-balancing, or as with the GM V6 they later went to an offset crankpin on the crankshaft to overcome the uneven firing. Anyway, I thought I would just throw that in for info, as someone who was a Ford dealer mechanic at that time. Cheers.
__________________
1967 XR 289 V8 Falcon (1st) - 1973 XLE 250 4spd Cortina (2nd) 1987 XF GL 4.1 Dual-Fuel Falcon (3rd) - 1996 EF 4.0 GLI Falcon (4th) 2003 BA 4.0 LPG Falcon Wagon (5th) 2016 SZ Territory TX 4.0 Petrol (6th & last?)(Sadly, written off) 2004 WRX (Retirement Toy) |
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#10 | |||
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,892
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Quote:
This thread is Bringing back all sorts of Bad memories.. I went To & from Primary for 7 Years in a V4 powered Transit Bus. The above Quote sums that Bus up Perfectly....... |
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,198
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I could be wrong ... but I think one of these was in the original Mustang show car.
Before the Mustang everyone likes came along. |
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#12 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 387
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Quote:
"The range was revised in September 1965, adopting new Ford Essex V4 engines, making it rough at idle and coarse on the road.[citation needed] This engine was available in 1663 cc form at first, but later in 1966, a larger 2.0-litre L version was offered alongside. One marketing tag line for the V4 models was "The Car That Is Seen But Not Heard", which was a real stretch of the ad man's puff, given the inherent characteristics of the engine. The other tag was "I've got a V in my bonnet". A 3.0 litre conversion using the Ford Essex V6 engine was one of the options available via Crayford Engineering." They were also used in other late 1960s UK Fords including MkIV Zephyr and Capri, in addition to the Transit and Corsair, according to Wiki. But I think the only Australian distributed Ford with the V4 was the Transit. So there is probably a good market for one of these engines in reasonable condition, especially in UK. Cheers.
__________________
1967 XR 289 V8 Falcon (1st) - 1973 XLE 250 4spd Cortina (2nd) 1987 XF GL 4.1 Dual-Fuel Falcon (3rd) - 1996 EF 4.0 GLI Falcon (4th) 2003 BA 4.0 LPG Falcon Wagon (5th) 2016 SZ Territory TX 4.0 Petrol (6th & last?)(Sadly, written off) 2004 WRX (Retirement Toy) |
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#13 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,837
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I might be interested in the V4, I'm close by Wang.
HZ Holden panel van, now your talking. re... the Transit engine swap, I had a 250 in a 1970 transit motorhome. The 4 speed held it back though especially when it would jump out of top gear. Sold it before I got around to a 5 speed swap.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
Last edited by roKWiz; 09-12-2019 at 08:58 AM. |
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#14 | ||
Excessive Fuel Ingestion
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Queensland Coast
Posts: 1,585
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I can remember these V4s being used for engine assembly competitions at shows.
A couple of teams of two people, one donk per each team; first to strip, rebuild then fire it up was the winner. Ed ![]()
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#15 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 21,951
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Did any of the South African speed outfits have a crack at this motor - Alconi, Perana, that sort of business?
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#16 | ||
formerly ford3000gt
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buderim, Qld
Posts: 110
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The Ford V4 'Essex' was only ever used in the early Mk.1 Transit Vans assembled here in Australia. You will find a few in fully imported Corsairs and the odd fully imported Mk.1 Capri. Our Capri's assembled here at Homebush in NSW, only ever had the 1600cc 'Kent' in-line-four and the 3-litre 'Essex' V6.
As for the Renault Alconi using them, I seriously doubt it and if Basil Green (Perana man) in South Africa ever got involved with these, it would have only been to take them out, throw them away and replace them with an 'Essex' V6 or a 5-litre V8!
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Current ride: '83 Mk.3 Capri, 2.8i, 5-spd |
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#17 | ||
formerly ford3000gt
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buderim, Qld
Posts: 110
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It's a Transit 'Essex' V4, could be a 1.7 or a 2.0 litre (you'll find the 1.7 or 2.0 stamped on the pad on the front left hand side of the block) and its also a Transit gearbox!
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Current ride: '83 Mk.3 Capri, 2.8i, 5-spd |
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#18 | ||
formerly ford3000gt
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buderim, Qld
Posts: 110
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The engine used in the prototype Mustang 1 in 1962 was the German Ford 'Cardinal' or 'Taunus' 1500cc V4. These German V4's were a totally different breed of V4 to the English 'Essex' V4, as used in the Transit vans and UK Corsairs and UK Capri's.
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Current ride: '83 Mk.3 Capri, 2.8i, 5-spd |
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,198
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
sorry I don't think that old V4 is worth much to anybody
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______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#21 | |||
formerly ford3000gt
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buderim, Qld
Posts: 110
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Quote:
You're right about its worth, only useful for parts or for someone who wants to restore one of these old UK vehicles back to its original state!
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Current ride: '83 Mk.3 Capri, 2.8i, 5-spd |
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#22 | ||
Former BTIKD
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
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And SAAB 96's
__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
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#23 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
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Thanks for everyone's input.
Below is a link to a folder with all the images i have. https://drive.google.com/open?id=12-...6eKheF18khDjdO It seems we have established that it's rare motor. Also not a very good motor & most likely not worth the money to restore. So not worth a lot. It seems to have some curiosity value which is at least something. I will check to see if it turns by hand. I don't hold high hopes but you never know. It won't be for a few weeks as i won't get back up there probably until xmas. I will post when i know, then if anyone is willing to save it from the scrapper we can maybe organise something. Cheers |
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#24 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,837
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Quote:
__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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