Driving record shows warning?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Howdy,

Got a fine in the mail and considering attending court to contest it.

I haven't got a fine in over 20 years however about 9 years ago I got a warning for going through a newly installed red light speed camera.

Not sure if I got a warning for my previous good record or because it was newly installed (was done doing 54 in a 50 zone if I recall).

Anyway, would that warning come up or do only convictions appear on your driving record?

Will use my good driving record in the hope it's wiped but the warning may cause an issue.

NSW if that makes a difference?

[Citroënbender]

Why not write to the SDRO first? At the least it will define their position better.

You could also purchase a copy of your driving record from RMS.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Why not write to the SDRO first? At the least it will define their position better.

You could also purchase a copy of your driving record from RMS.

That was my next question - if I ask for leniency and they say no can I still take the matter to court?

[Blue Dog]

Are you guilty?
If you are, pay the fine.
If you aren't & can prove it, go to court.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

That was my next question - if I ask for leniency and they say no can I still take the matter to court?

Absolutely. You can plead “Guilty with explanation” which in the right situations leads to a Section 10(1)(a) - or at least did in the past. You’d want to have a copy of your driving record to check before going that way.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Blue Dog

Are you guilty?
If you are, pay the fine.
If you aren't & can prove it, go to court.

Yes, but I believe I have grounds for leniency.

Won't hurt to ask. They can say no and I'll pay the fine or they can say yes and it's wiped.

[Citroënbender]

Worst case unless you’re a complete knob in how you go about it, is the penalty stands plus you cop the standard costs - under $100. Petty courts can be entertaining so you could mentally discount some of the court cost - if applied - to the value of the “show”.

Don’t be drawn here into discussing what you did, the rights or wrongs - it will just end up dividing people.

[burnz]

you can write a letter to the police minister..
my wife got off on her fine...
so it is possible.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Yes, but I believe I have grounds for leniency.

Won't hurt to ask. They can say no and I'll pay the fine or they can say yes and it's wiped.

This is what clogs up the Courts.
Firstly, no your warning wouldn't be recorded, I'd say it was just in testing mode, just like the using your phone cameras, in test mode, issuing warnings until legislation comes into force.
Secondly, leniency would need to be good, rushing my Mrs to hospital, her waters broke, not because I'm a good guy and deserve a break, and
Thirdly, you will be hit with Court costs regardless.
Honestly, just pay it unless there are strong mitigating circumstances.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Why not write to the SDRO first? At the least it will define their position better.

You could also purchase a copy of your driving record from RMS.

^^^^^^Plus one to this ^^^^^^^

[Tickford.]

What exactly was the fine for?

In VIC, if the fine is for under 10km/h, and you haven't received any traffic infringement notices for 2 years or more, you can write and ask for a warning instead.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

What exactly was the fine for?

In VIC, if the fine is for under 10km/h, and you haven't received any traffic infringement notices for 2 years or more, you can write and ask for a warning instead.

54 in a school zone 10min to the cut off time. Never drove in that part of Sydney before, was helping a friend get to the airport.

So, essentially 14 above.

I'll go with he letter first.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Worst case unless you’re a complete knob in how you go about it, is the penalty stands plus you cop the standard costs - under $100. Petty courts can be entertaining so you could mentally discount some of the court cost - if applied - to the value of the “show”.

Don’t be drawn here into discussing what you did, the rights or wrongs - it will just end up dividing people.

I attended court for another matter supporting a mate of mine.

Yes, the show was pretty good to watch.

The judge seemed quite reasonable. Let off about a quarter with a warning, reduced infringement for about the other quarter and upheld the fine for the rest.

Usual thing. Present well, say sorry and you will have a good chance of something.

Some people turned up with lawyers for silly stuff in the hope it will help. Nope.

The petty road infringements were heard in a matter of minutes each so seeing as I'm not working at the moment It's worth the punt should that be the next option.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

So, essentially 14 above.

I'll go with he letter first.

No chance of getting a warning IMO. I wouldn't bother with the letter.

In saying that, I know of someone who was 12km's over and wrote a very long, hand written letter with deliberate bad hand writing and bad spelling. It was almost unreadable. Looked like a 4 year old had written it.
A couple of weeks later he received a letter saying his fine was being reviewed. About 7 months later he received another letter stating that his fine has been dropped because it had taken to long to process!

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I attended court for another matter supporting a mate of mine.

Yes, the show was pretty good to watch.

The judge seemed quite reasonable. Let off about a quarter with a warning, reduced infringement for about the other quarter and upheld the fine for the rest.

Usual thing. Present well, say sorry and you will have a good chance of something.

Some people turned up with lawyers for silly stuff in the hope it will help. Nope.

The petty road infringements were heard in a matter of minutes each so seeing as I'm not working at the moment It's worth the punt should that be the next option.

Give it a Shot, You've got more to gain than Lose.... (IMHO)

[94_ef]

So if you didn't see it was a school zone would you spot a child?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 94_ef

So if you didn't see it was a school zone would you spot a child?

Not all school zones have flashing lights. The students are long in school by the time the school zone period is coming to an end.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by 94_ef

So if you didn't see it was a school zone would you spot a child?

Was on a 6 lane road at 3:50pm. Just going along with the traffic flow.

No flashing lights.

Done well over a million km of driving without a fine. 200k km in the last 3 years alone.

Don't make out like I'm some reckless speed demon that is out to hit little kiddies.

[Dr Terry]

School zones are just cash cows. Pay the fine & forget it.

Stay away from the court system. If you you lay down with dogs you'll get fleas.

Dr Terry

[94_ef]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Was on a 6 lane road at 3:50pm. Just going along with the traffic flow.

No flashing lights.

Done well over a million km of driving without a fine. 200k km in the last 3 years alone.

Don't make out like I'm some reckless speed demon that is out to hit little kiddies.

Not making you out to be a reckless speed demon. Asking if you are aware of your surroundings and obey the road rules.

Not sure "but they did it first" will be a good defense.

If you think about it though can you imagine how many infringement notices they must have posted out? A six lane road and all the cars going that speed. Must have been a lot of people speeding.

[Peter B - CV8]

You can try the letter approach & I wish you the best of luck - but speeding in a school zone is viewed pretty seriously & I doubt any tolerance would be given.

[ute83]

Here in peoples republic of Victoria the warning instead of a fine system does not work when caught in a school zone. The school zone times could be tightened up a fair bit I reckon.

[Dave R]

Doubt you'll get much leniency for a school zone offence. Be wary that if the court finds you guilty it will go on your criminal record.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Doubt you'll get much leniency for a school zone offence. Be wary that if the court finds you guilty it will go on your criminal record.

Really... hmmm that changes things. So if I pay I will cop the points and that's it but if I go to court and the fine is upheld it seems to be worse.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Be wary that if the court finds you guilty it will go on your criminal record.

No it won't. It is a traffic offence, fine and points that's it. If you go to court and lose, the fine maybe slightly higher to cover costs, but that very rarely happens for a traffic offence.

[JamoRS]

Being a school zone, I doubt you will have much luck!
Good luck!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

No it won't. It is a traffic offence, fine and points that's it. If you go to court and lose, the fine maybe slightly higher to cover costs, but that very rarely happens for a traffic offence.

It's my understanding that while it's a traffic offence and will indeed be on your traffic record, if the matter ends up in court and you are found guilty w/ conviction recorded, the conviction will go on your criminal record - unless you manage to get a section 10 dismissal (i.e. no conviction recorded). I recall many of the traffic lawyers' websites warned about going to court and risking conviction if you don't get a section 10. I'm not a lawyer, so happy to review any info you may have to the contrary.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

It's my understanding that while it's a traffic offence and will indeed be on your traffic record, if the matter ends up in court and you are found guilty w/ conviction recorded, the conviction will go on your criminal record - unless you manage to get a section 10 dismissal (i.e. no conviction recorded). I recall many of the traffic lawyers' websites warned about going to court and risking conviction if you don't get a section 10. I'm not a lawyer, so happy to review any info you may have to the contrary.

That can't be right. If that was the case, no one would want to challenge a dodgy fine. It's everybodies right to be able to prove their innocence in court, not be punished for doing it.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That can't be right. If that was the case, no one would want to challenge a dodgy fine. It's everybodies right to be able to prove their innocence in court, not be punished for doing it.

Well if it's a dodgy fine and you prove your innocence you wouldn't be found guilty and convicted.

I elected court to plead leniency for a minor traffic infringement in NSW a few years ago and recall there was a lot of debate about whether convictions end up on your criminal record. I managed to get the section 10 dismissal which is a mechanism by which you are found guilty (i.e. you aren't claiming you didn't break the law), but they don't record a conviction - it also doesn't affect your driving record, with the section 10 recorded in lieu of losing demerit points.

In my research at the time it was the opinion of many that any conviction handed down by a court goes on your record. Serious traffic infringements like drink driving and high speed go on your criminal record as you get a court attendance notice instead of a penalty notice, so you're being convicted by a court. The information available on the various government websites isn't 100% clear. For example, the NSW govt lawaccess site states the following:

Before you elect to go to court you should consider the following:

• if you go to court, you may be convicted of an offence and that conviction may be recorded on your criminal record.

There's also a specific section on driving and criminal records on that website that states "your criminal record includes a list of all serious traffic offences and other offences that you have been found guilty and convicted of in court". Yet it also has a line stating "where the conviction is recorded depends on the seriousness the offence". I think a lot of these fact sheets are mainly to reassure people that getting a traffic/parking infringement notice in general will not end up on your criminal record. But elevating the matter to be decided in a court might change the game entirely.

Armstrong Legal who seem to specialise in traffic cases state the following on their website:

Normally, when you plead guilty to a criminal or traffic offence, the court imposes a penalty and records a conviction. If the court records a conviction you will have a criminal record.

Again, not a lawyer and I'd be interested if anyone has a certain answer, there have been a lot of arguments on other forums like whirlpool on this topic. I contested my fine assuming a risk of being convicted and potentially having a record (whether that's true or not), but given the circumstances I was fairly certain I'd be given a section 10 with no conviction and that did end up being the case.

In the case of the OP, it might be prudent to call a lawyer first to be sure.

[Citroënbender]

There was - and hopefully remains - the option of discussing prospects with a registrar or chamber magistrate. Appointment wait times can vary quite a bit, definitely not a walk-up situation.