I'm conflicted. AU or BA or BF XR8 coupe-utility?

Schtoo · 25-05-2020, 12:09 AM

Hello All,

I hope I've stuck this in the right place.

So, the time has come where I can't really put off getting a second set of wheels for the fam-damily, as I need to get to work and the (much!) better half rather likes what we already have and will gladly drive it around, as little as she needs to get around anywhere.

I've been overseas for nearly 20 years, and when I left I had a Hilux 4WD ute, and rather liked it aside from it being utterly unable to rip the corner off the skin of a moldy rice pudding, let alone a complete skin.

I don't 'need' a ute, but I'd like one. I don't need to cart around humans, the family bus carries 5 in comfort, 7 in a pinch and sips fuel while it does it. I don't have far to drive to work, it's 15 minutes on the worst morning, 5-8 in the current times so I can gladly deal with something that's less than economical on fuel, less than family practical and not very tyre friendly because I do get proper mate's rates on round black things.

So a ute it is, and while I really do not care what ute it will be, as I have no demand for fuel economy I really don't need some econobox but would prefer something that makes nice noises and whatnot. I have no desire to pay the Bogan taxes with a Commodore, and I'm finding that the fabled Barra-T doesn't attract such taxes, they're awfully pricey for what you're getting. Especially as I'm sure it won't be a month before I'll be forced to replace a few bits in it's guts and have someone competent fiddle with it's brains...

And besides, I'd like a V8 please.

I've got a somewhat solid budget of $10K for the car alone, plus whatever the extras will cost. Yes, I'll be borrowing it from somewhere, but that's not an issue, other than I don't really want to spend much more than that.

Looking at what's out there, I'm finding the previously mentioned AUII and AUIII, BA and the odd BF in the price range (Vic), but is $10K and change really what these things should be going for?

Like I said, I've been away and have lost my sense for what's a good deal somewhat. Still got contacts if I need them, but mostly sticking a toe or three in the water and making sure I have enough budget to get what I'd like without ending up with some clapped out crap-box.

As to what appeals to me, I'm finding something of a soft spot for an AU, because Windsor V8 and the ones in the III are quite healthy. They also seem to be on the uptick because, well, I guess everyone finally worked out that while they're not pretty, they're solid and dependable.

But a BA/BF has 'more' motor, are a little newer and all the benefits of that in regard to parts, refinement, etc. In that regard, I'd honestly prefer the 'other' brand because IRS...

So, I guess I'm looking for suggestions on which way to go, what I should expect for the $$$ and while I've got folks to drag along with me to point out problems I'm too starry eyed to see, anything to watch out for would be appreciated.

Really, I'd like a well worn XM/XP with a Barra in it to match the mint XM stock as a rock wagon in the garage, but that can take some time to make happen, maybe. Besides which, the XM can do daily duties if it has to for a time so I'm in no rush at all.

Thanks in advance.

Stu.

UTXR8 · 25-05-2020, 01:12 AM

AU much better than BA...far less to go wrong like bushes...ignition barrel...climate mixer etc..much nicer to drive as well...i had an AU and BA xr8 and now have an FG xr8...all utes, but i reckon the AU is stil the pick

Falcon SXR8 · 25-05-2020, 06:45 AM

I wouldn't touch a ba again, worst ford I've owned. Au all the way if you can find a well looked after one

Citroënbender · 25-05-2020, 08:03 AM

Why waste a survivor AU as a runaround hack?

The working brief fits a BF well.

**Polyal** · 25-05-2020, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Why waste a survivor AU as a runaround hack?

The working brief fits a BF well.

Agreed, but, if it was me I would be getting a AU2/3 XR8 no question.

BF XR8 would also make a fine daily but potentially/historically more maintenance issues.

B series XR6T would be a happy medium but if the cylinder count is what is driving it then thats not an option.

nstg8a · 25-05-2020, 08:28 AM

V8 utes are certainly getting pricey.

Don’t forget, with the au you won’t get better than the 200kw (presuming stock) Windsor in your budget. The 22O never made it to the utes and a p250 would be the score of the decade for your budget.
Even holden utes are getting thin on the ground already. Owners are holding onto the decent ones, and when they doh it the market they’re priced right up there.

**Polyal** · 25-05-2020, 08:37 AM

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6590588/?Cr=3

You can negotiate there.

Shame this one is a bit more $$, can you push to $12k?

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...3634344/?Cr=14

But at $10k

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/waro...ute/1224523017

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/prev...uto/1248088431

Jack91 · 25-05-2020, 11:43 AM

Au all the way. The 200kw in the series 2 and 3 is more than enough to get you into trouble. Get the best one you can afford. You might not see it being worth 10k, but ive sold one for 2500, and another for 2k, and you definitly get what you pay for. I cant forsee the value of a good manual s2 or 3 xr8 dropping from where they are now

MercuryT · 25-05-2020, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I wouldn't touch a ba again, worst ford I've owned. Au all the way if you can find a well looked after one

Mine ran perfect years.

Then it was not so perfect - had a page long list of repairs so I flicked it

Falcon SXR8 · 25-05-2020, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Mine ran perfect years.

Then it was not so perfect - had a page long list of repairs so I flicked it

From 120 000ks onward mine just fell apart, I've got 160 000 on it now and like you a list that could fill an encyclopedia. In those 40 000ks it stranded me 4 times on the side of the road.

MercuryT · 25-05-2020, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I wouldn't touch a ba again, worst ford I've owned. Au all the way if you can find a well looked after one

Doubt the FG is any better. Feels as cheap as the BA to me.

Better cars and new features, reliability no difference as too many factors involved.

ZF Box.........good luck if that goes.

Schtoo · 25-05-2020, 07:42 PM

Thanks for the insight all, very interesting...

Because I can't drive this forum thingy very well, I'll run down the list of things you've mentioned.

I wasn't sure the AU was 'all that' although it seems to have come into it's own, and the general consensus is to go for one of them, so I'll direct my efforts that way but won't knock back something else if it drops into my lap. ;)

As far as a 'runaround hack', I'll be using it to get to work. For right now, that's 15 minutes up the road so barely far enough to get the engine up to temp. Not great for engines, but I'll make sure it gets a good run on the weekends. A ute because I do have stuff to shuffle around, and while the family bus can carry plenty of stuff but it's not a proper stuff carrier.

And why not? The last car I actually bought was specifically bought for short trips so was well worn, cheap but interesting. On paper it sounded like a beast being mid engine, RWD, 4 valve per cylinder and turbo with intercooler as it was built.

Also happened to be a 3 cylinder, 660cc and 4 doors, 4 seats. A virtual gold star for whoever gets it right. Ours was silver, but if I'd got the one I wanted I'd have dragged it home with me because it was weird and marketed correctly, worth a mint around here.

I'm not adverse to a turbo at all, but I'd much rather get the ZF box, which means BF and they're either gold plated and priced accordingly or beaten to death and look it. Manual, maybe but I'm no purist. I'd rather the auto.

200kw is plenty for me, and if at some point I decide it's not really enough I 'know a guy' who I could pressure for a favour. The problem is that particular 'guy' probably gets asked for all kinds of favours and I might be well down the list, but then again I wired up his workshop. At the same time, I don't want to get sucked into that vortex of fooling with cars, drinking beer and getting home late, again...

Any further insights are muchly appreciated, and I'll just quietly keep looking and seeing what pops up. That blue thing, methinks I'll ping that fellow and see what the deal is there. Might be able to get someone to take a look later on this week for me, as it's on the other side of town.

Thanks all,

Stu.

MercuryT · 25-05-2020, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

From 120 000ks onward mine just fell apart, I've got 160 000 on it now and like you a list that could fill an encyclopedia. In those 40 000ks it stranded me 4 times on the side of the road.

Mine fell apart from 180onwards. Like car fine then yes your Encyclopedia quote right.

I took if for it's major service and literally laughed at work to be done. Worth 3 times the car worth I suspect.

I was never stranded - never stopped just everything else. (my Maloo was too low so I blew tyres......sucks big time)

MercuryT · 25-05-2020, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiji

IOtherwise BA falcon over AU any day, far superior car, much more motor.

I know the BA had many issues but yes I agree, the AU comparison is odd as just nowhere close.

More reliable yes, maybe, rest it's so far behind it's strange. Motor, looks, features etc

Schtoo · 25-05-2020, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiji

I hate to say it but what about a ford with the FG/sz 195kw 400nm i6? FG XR6 ute / sedan? Newish car, nice if you find it with 6spd auto and with the 195kw i6 and 400nm, will run rings around an old au falcon V8. Maybe squeeze one in under $10k.

Otherwise BA falcon over AU any day, far superior car, much more motor.

Because noises?

I left Oz with a suitcase and not much else. Came back 17 years later with a wife, 2 kids, a dog and a car along with half a 20' container of stuff.

I spent 17 years in Japan, and never had anything interesting to drive because I was too busy paying the bills and trying to convince the spawn to grow up right.

Now the bills are still there as are the kids, but the bills are smaller, kids are bigger, both are more manageable and I want something to drive that I WANT! Sensibilities be damned, I want something that'll make me smile even if it's not exactly quick, fast or even sure footed.

(And if I really want that, I can always go back for a shopping/shipping expedition.)

Plus, I've got the 'sensible' car already. And while on paper a 195kw six might make sense, a 200kw V8 makes all the noises I want to hear. It might end up being I get the six because reasons.

That said, there's a BA XR8 literally around the corner (same postcode) at $10K on the road. Manual even. A little long in the tooth, but still.

Hence, the conflict...

(Also, if it's a manual it'll give the boy something to learn on in a couple years. I wish my dad had a V8 ute for me to learn how to drive.)

Stu.

**Giant Cranium** · 25-05-2020, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schtoo

Because noises?

I left Oz with a suitcase and not much else. Came back 17 years later with a wife, 2 kids, a dog and a car along with half a 20' container of stuff.

I spent 17 years in Japan, and never had anything interesting to drive because I was too busy paying the bills and trying to convince the spawn to grow up right.

Now the bills are still there as are the kids, but the bills are smaller, kids are bigger, both are more manageable and I want something to drive that I WANT! Sensibilities be damned, I want something that'll make me smile even if it's not exactly quick, fast or even sure footed.

(And if I really want that, I can always go back for a shopping/shipping expedition.)

Plus, I've got the 'sensible' car already. And while on paper a 195kw six might make sense, a 200kw V8 makes all the noises I want to hear. It might end up being I get the six because reasons.

That said, there's a BA XR8 literally around the corner (same postcode) at $10K on the road. Manual even. A little long in the tooth, but still.

Hence, the conflict...

(Also, if it's a manual it'll give the boy something to learn on in a couple years. I wish my dad had a V8 ute for me to learn how to drive.)

Stu.

Make sure it’s a manual. If you can’t be the fastest be the loudest. That’s what a manual v8 delivers

Falcon SXR8 · 25-05-2020, 09:06 PM

If you want a v8 get one, don't settle on a six. Life is to short to take the "sensible" route.

If you go a ba make sure the timing chain tensioners have been done.

**Giant Cranium** · 25-05-2020, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schtoo

Because noises?

I left Oz with a suitcase and not much else. Came back 17 years later with a wife, 2 kids, a dog and a car along with half a 20' container of stuff.

I spent 17 years in Japan, and never had anything interesting to drive because I was too busy paying the bills and trying to convince the spawn to grow up right.

Now the bills are still there as are the kids, but the bills are smaller, kids are bigger, both are more manageable and I want something to drive that I WANT! Sensibilities be damned, I want something that'll make me smile even if it's not exactly quick, fast or even sure footed.

(And if I really want that, I can always go back for a shopping/shipping expedition.)

Plus, I've got the 'sensible' car already. And while on paper a 195kw six might make sense, a 200kw V8 makes all the noises I want to hear. It might end up being I get the six because reasons.

That said, there's a BA XR8 literally around the corner (same postcode) at $10K on the road. Manual even. A little long in the tooth, but still.

Hence, the conflict...

(Also, if it's a manual it'll give the boy something to learn on in a couple years. I wish my dad had a V8 ute for me to learn how to drive.)

Stu.

I just sent you a pm

MercuryT · 25-05-2020, 10:18 PM

Surely no one is considering an AU?

Fine if so but appearance and engine is valued also?

jaydee · 25-05-2020, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I wouldn't touch a ba again, worst ford I've owned. Au all the way if you can find a well looked after one

Agreed, my BA Futura was nothing but electrical gremlins.
Window regulators, door locks, headlight, heater control unit etc.
Happy to see that drive off down the street and me with a pocketful of cash.

Falcon SXR8 · 25-05-2020, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Surely no one is considering an AU?

Fine if so but appearance and engine is valued also?

Id take an au series2 xr8 ute over a ba, but thats me, each to their own. Both are nice ford v8 powered rides and would be fun to own especially in a manual.

**Giant Cranium** · 25-05-2020, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Surely no one is considering an AU?

Fine if so but appearance and engine is valued also?

Do you get on the tins at night? At night your inner troll is released

I’ve had a fg xr8 Ute, bf xr8 Ute and now my p250. The fg would come second and the bf 3rd. They had no soul and were nose heavy slugs.

The p250 is the last muscle car we made. Rear drive, manual, barely a computer, rough edges and a fantastic hand built 342 Windsor.

Schtoo · 26-05-2020, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiji

To the OP, I presume your not really a ford man. do your research on the Barra i6

Anyone who buys an au V8 over a FG/SZ Barra 6 is settling on a V8.

Even the old fairy tickford 6 used to give the V8 a beating back in the day. Imagine the bloodbath the FG Barra 6 would impose on the frail au V8.

Umm...

The XM sitting not 10' from me, and has been in the family for the past 55 years begs to differ. Unfortunately while I was away dad let someone 'steal' my XP Coupe w/351 and there wasn't much I could do about it.

Holdens in our family are cursed. Every single one we've ever owned has had a very, very bad ending. I'd tempt fate on one, but only if it's got an LS in it just because burble.

If I wanted 'power' over and above everything else, I'd grab an XR6-T, valve springs, oil pump and then go see someone in Frankston I've known for 30 years to have a fiddle with it. I know enough about the Barra to know I'll have one some day, but maybe not to-day.

There's no way on earth I'd consider a Territory. I do not disagree they're a pretty solid unit, but I have no want, need or desire for one now or in the future, so please put those thoughts aside. Just not happening. The 2018 X3 parked next to the XM isn't having any of that Territory borscht thank you very much. And the X3 has a friend who's actually better at being a 'family bus' but is stuck outside in the driveway. It's embarrassing to own, but there's a darned good reason they're as common as mud.

If by chance I did find myself stuck with an AU XR6, there'd be a very high probability that the poor Intech would have a very short existence under the bonnet, but really I'm not into 'doing up' something of this kind of vintage.

I don't want practical and sensible, I've already got that. I want theatrics and noise. I don't expect anyone else to understand it, and I consider myself fortunate that I can do something stupid in this case and know I'll not regret it because the 6 year old in my head will laugh his butt off every time I drive it. That 6 year old hasn't had much in the way of automotive crack to get off on, and it's time he gets a hit.

Stu.

OffRoadFalcon · 26-05-2020, 01:41 AM

It sounds like you've got a very good idea of what you want.
I reckon, seeing as all of the cars you're talking about are around 12-19 years old, you'll probably end up going for the best example of any you can find in your budget.

I don't want to sound like just another AU tragic, but I would tend to gravitate towards them a little more. From my experience they feel a little better built, especially inside. There's a more connected feeling about them when driving too, even with a considerable amount of BA parts in mine, it's still different. Something about the steering, and the cable throttle definitely helps too.
There's a certain character about them too, they grow on you.
Maybe I've owned mine too long, and lost the plot.

At the same time, my folks have owned their BA XT sedan since it was 2 years old, and to this day it's been an excellent car with very little in the way of problems. Very little has needed to be spent. It's done 250,000km now and I think it has worn very well. It's a great car in it's own right, and I still do think it's nice to drive, and that's only a base model. I think if you found a really well cared for example of either a BA or BF XR8, you'll thoroughly enjoy it.

There's heaps of debate on which is better, AU or B-series, with lots of fans strongly in one corner or the other... in the end, they must both be pretty well sorted cars!

I'd see if you can get a test drive of both an AU and a B series to decide which you like more. Your budget should get you a very nice example of any of them!

Falcon SXR8 · 26-05-2020, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiji

To the OP, I presume your not really a ford man. do your research on the Barra i6, it's a very heavy handed blunt force trauma kind of a tool.

Anyone who buys the au V8 over a FG/SZ Barra 6 is settling on "just a V8"

It's a bloodbath the FG/SZ Barra 6 would impose on the frail au V8.

Sorry na barra is boooooooooring, it might be exciting for the kind of guy who likes aurions though.......... op wants a v8

**Giant Cranium** · 26-05-2020, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiji

You want silly giggles theatrics and noise? Have you driven an au V8? Let me describe .

Start it up and it has a nice burble to it, you nod in appreciation. give it a short stab on the throttle, yeah sounds mean.. cruise around at low throttle, smooth and torquey. then you hit the throttle to the floor, decent initial pull, the revs gradually built, so far very nice and your anticipating this big top end show as the icing on the cake but it just doesn't happen, it just gradually and smoothly gets to redline.. it doesn't build much more power from 4500rpm midrange up. Seems like it should have another 2000rpm, but there's nothing there. they just dont breath up top, don't even sound like it's reving that hard either but that's it. It's like having a really short shower in the cold, your out before you even warm up.

If you want theatrics and noise, silly giggles, get the ba boss 260 XR8.. same as above but from 4400rpm it really starts howling and you get that big angry top end rush, deep Intake howl and crisp exhaust note with the revs beating hard. all the nasty theatrics and noise. Like an earthquake is happening in front of you... At full noise the boss 260 - 290 is one of the sweetest V8 sounds around, listen to a few boss dyno videos on YouTube..

In case anyone wants some back story to the rubbish Fiji spins. He reckons the aurion is one of the best cars made and that a supercharged Miami v8 is boring and slow

For once just try and be normal, give good advice and not troll topics and ruin them to the point they are closed.

**Polyal** · 26-05-2020, 08:00 AM

Stu the best thing you can do is try and find some examples around you and test drive. There may be a quirk about either car you just cant live with.

PooDog · 26-05-2020, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiji

You want silly giggles theatrics and noise? Have you driven an au V8? Let me describe .

Start it up and it has a nice burble to it, you nod in appreciation. give it a short stab on the throttle, yeah sounds mean.. cruise around at low throttle, smooth and torquey. then you hit the throttle to the floor, decent initial pull, the revs gradually built, so far very nice and your anticipating this big top end show as the icing on the cake but it just doesn't happen, it just gradually and smoothly gets to redline.. it doesn't build much more power from 4500rpm midrange up. Seems like it should have another 2000rpm, but there's nothing there. they just dont breath up top, don't even sound like it's reving that hard either but that's it. It's like having a really short shower in the cold, your out before you even warm up.

If you want theatrics and noise, silly giggles, get the ba boss 260 XR8.. same as above but from 4400rpm it really starts howling and you get that big angry top end rush, deep Intake howl and crisp exhaust note with the revs beating hard. all the nasty theatrics and noise. Like an earthquake is happening in front of you... At full noise the boss 260 - 290 is one of the sweetest V8 sounds around, listen to a few boss dyno videos on YouTube..

your right about the BA you just forgot to mention that it is flat no torque till it gets to at least 4500 rpm then it boogies and runs out of steam at 6000 so if you want to drive a v8 around keeping it at a narrow 1500rpm powerband sucking gas like theres no tomorrow then its for you

Or if you want something that has reasonable torque everywhere andreasonably economical (better than the BA) get the AU if you can find a pursuit it will kill the BA everywhere

Take them both for a drive it will be obvious

Schtoo · 26-05-2020, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Stu the best thing you can do is try and find some examples around you and test drive. There may be a quirk about either car you just cant live with.

About the only V8 AU ute I know of I might be able to take for a drive WON'T be stock in any way, shape or form. I don't know what's in it, but I know it was less than a week old before things started getting done to it way back when it was new.

Actually, I might ask him if he wants to sell it to me. It'll be an old test mule, but might be interesting as well...

I don't know. It'd be nice to have some time off to really get out there and have a look, but the time off I've had recently was either work from home or 'stay home, don't get sick'.

Stu.

**Polyal** · 26-05-2020, 10:12 AM

Mate your a prospective buyer, if there is something in your area go test drive it, doesnt have to be a mates car.