E85 vs THE REST! - Page 7

xr6t_ute · 23-04-2012, 03:21 PM

Sorry typo... Meant 0.84 lambda, and plugs were ngk iridium 7's gapped at 0.76 and we slowly went down to 0.6 and the same thing was happening... I just thought the factory Ba coils weren't providing a strong enough spark to burn e98.

Giant · 23-04-2012, 03:39 PM

Where you tunning with SCT or VCM Suite, where you adjusting the spark dwell etc. Also you may be better off with copper or silver plugs.

You could also look into KB boost-a-spark.

xr6t_ute · 23-04-2012, 04:35 PM

Sorry typo... Meant 0.84 lambda, and plugs were ngk iridium 7's gapped at 0.76 and we slowly went down to 0.6 and the same thing was happening... I just thought the factory Ba coils weren't providing a strong enough spark to burn e98. Boost was 16.9 psi, using std factory gt3582 turbo.

FreddyDUZ747 · 23-04-2012, 05:03 PM

Did you throw a fresh set of coils on her mate?

Im at 1.1 gap with 16psi with the boost'a'spark.

prasac · 23-04-2012, 05:07 PM

E98 is harder to ignite then E85 for instance. but, it should be able to cope i have seen them running more boost on other XR6T's using standard ignition setup.. the copper plugs should ignite better than the iridium.

it's a big gap, we are down around 20-thou, im not familiar with what the BA's like, maybe try asking in the FPV XR6 etc secton what the other guys are running. with the Hyundai/M&W coils with just the igniter we could run E90 up to 27psi, however, this was a different engine. get a hold of some -8 NGK Coppers and have a go. dwell can/will make a big difference, if he changed the dwell and it doesn't have enough time to charge the coil then it won't be a big spark. i have seen it with the LS guys, the LS1 coils take 5ms to fully charge, anything under 2.5ms and spark would blow out at higher boost.

Giant · 23-04-2012, 05:33 PM

I found the BF coils are better.

xr6t_ute · 23-04-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Did you throw a fresh set of coils on her mate?

Im at 1.1 gap with 16psi with the boost'a'spark.

Are you sure your using 1.1 gap at that boost...., everyone on modded Ba Bf's etc are running between 0.8 - 0.7 due to blowing out the spark.

FreddyDUZ747 · 23-04-2012, 05:38 PM

I find mine are better than all of them lol!

Sure am running 1.1 gap,I have my own std modified coils and the ignition booster upgrade.I recon I can go wider on the gap again but ill risk frying my coils I recon if I turn the wick up on the controller

Cheapo plugs to FTMFW

xr6t_ute · 23-04-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

E98 is harder to ignite then E85 for instance. but, it should be able to cope i have seen them running more boost on other XR6T's using standard ignition setup.. the copper plugs should ignite better than the iridium.

it's a big gap, we are down around 20-thou, im not familiar with what the BA's like, maybe try asking in the FPV XR6 etc secton what the other guys are running. with the Hyundai/M&W coils with just the igniter we could run E90 up to 27psi, however, this was a different engine. get a hold of some -8 NGK Coppers and have a go. dwell can/will make a big difference, if he changed the dwell and it doesn't have enough time to charge the coil then it won't be a big spark. i have seen it with the LS guys, the LS1 coils take 5ms to fully charge, anything under 2.5ms and spark would blow out at higher boost.

Thanks again... will try those things and see how it goes on the dyno...will also speak to my tuner and find out about dwell adjustment using SCT.
Cheers.

FreddyDUZ747 · 23-04-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6t_ute

Are you sure your using 1.1 gap at that boost...., everyone on modded Ba Bf's etc are running between 0.8 - 0.7 due to blowing out the spark.

BTW,im not everyone

I also run a single 3" exhaust and less than 3" intake.......shhhhh,dont tell anyone it works

xr6t_ute · 23-04-2012, 06:51 PM

i went 11.3 with a 3" exhaust on my Ba with std intake and crossover, back in 2008.

prasac · 24-04-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

I find mine are better than all of them lol!

Sure am running 1.1 gap,I have my own std modified coils and the ignition booster upgrade.I recon I can go wider on the gap again but ill risk frying my coils I recon if I turn the wick up on the controller

Cheapo plugs to FTMFW

we kept the same spark plug gap even after adding the CDI, even though it is producing such a big spark. i think alot of people have a tendency to open the plug gap when they add a CDI or boost-a-spark. we have found it didn't necessarily work, which is why we stayed at the same gap, though we are also pumping in a little more boost.

FreddyDUZ747 · 24-04-2012, 09:33 AM

Ill try a .8 gap prasac next time it goes back and run it up to see if their are any advantages on the same tune,if its the size of a bees **** dick the gain ill still take it.Lots of bees ***** equals a big bees ****

I think because of the relatively low boost its coping well.

I hear what your saying though,its like trying to push over a small fat guy compared to a tall skinny fella,the skinny fella will drop first every time.

prasac · 24-04-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Ill try a .8 gap prasac next time it goes back and run it up to see if their are any advantages on the same tune,if its the size of a bees **** dick the gain ill still take it.Lots of bees ***** equals a big bees ****

I think because of the relatively low boost its coping well.

I hear what your saying though,its like trying to push over a small fat guy compared to a tall skinny fella,the skinny fella will drop first every time.

with the CDI it picked up power, can't remember exactly how much, maybe 40hp i think, that'sa bit more than a bee's d**k, maybe more like a hegehog's

better spark, more eficient burning + more fuel = more power. it might not show power, but, it will be better for it.

you do have the lower boost helping you, once you start pushing it, will really make a difference

Giant · 24-04-2012, 02:56 PM

LOL i ran 1.4mm and 1.5mm gaps running LPG with no break down. I found it performs best at 1mm gap. Most people are using 0.8mm when running LPG.

Its worth testing to see what works best for your setup. Its always good to compare other peoples setups, but nothing beats your own testing.

Plus you its rare that you get the full story or full details.

blueoval · 24-04-2012, 03:15 PM

I was told to run between 0.8-0.9mm gap for my plugs for best performance. Not a massive difference but noticed it picks up ever so slightly quicker from stand still compared to a 1.1mm gap.

prasac · 24-04-2012, 03:29 PM

it would be good to see alot more cars on E85. it has been around for a while now so tuners should be getting better and better with it.

Giant · 24-04-2012, 03:41 PM

I think if E85 was 85% accross the board you would see more cars and tuners using it.

XTZ · 24-04-2012, 05:13 PM

Anyone tried Martini's new E85? Has a 116 octane rating, which is the highest I've seen in E85.. Looking at doing a comparison in the next few weeks against Sucrogen which I've always used..

Wish we had United E85 in Brisbane!!!!

dalts · 24-04-2012, 09:29 PM

I'm with you Ben ,would be good to have it a little more available in brissie!

prasac · 24-04-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant

I think if E85 was 85% accross the board you would see more cars and tuners using it.

that is a good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XTZ

Anyone tried Martini's new E85? Has a 116 octane rating, which is the highest I've seen in E85.. Looking at doing a comparison in the next few weeks against Sucrogen which I've always used..

Wish we had United E85 in Brisbane!!!!

give it a go. i'm not sure how they can get it so high. let the track tell you not the dyno, cars perform alot differently when they are under full load. the issue i have seen with alot of guys going to Race Mixes and have performed the same. if u have a tester, test it, i'd be interested to see if it is a 85/15 mix. that is a very high octane rating.

we have really only noticed a pickup in torque, Race E90 blended with refined Premium ran 8.20@166, United E85 has run 8.30@167. it did 60' better with race mix, it could have been track prep, if u go with mph they are pretty similar, however pump shows a lil more mph.

prasac · 24-04-2012, 11:19 PM

thought i would add this, its our little E85 test kit. costs around $30, you can get the test tube from ebay etc and the syinges from the chemist or your local junkie

the fuel and ethanol separate, tested a E98 batch we have, as you can see it separates and the fuel, lubricants etc float to the top leaving you with what % of ethanol is in there, this is around 98%. a mix like this, should give more power and torque

FreddyDUZ747 · 25-04-2012, 01:28 AM

Do you have a link for a Aussie seller paulie?

prasac · 25-04-2012, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Do you have a link for a Aussie seller paulie?

i don't unfortunately. i will ask around see if anyone knows. you could try places like Rocket, VPW etc.

donizgood · 28-04-2012, 09:01 PM

e85 all the way

prasac · 29-04-2012, 10:10 PM

not that it's need, but confirmation again of just how good United E85 is.

car is 170lbs heavier, has full exhaust including 2 cats and is on a 275 M/T ET Street Radial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_aYDZlaEwc

silver_xe · 30-04-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Do you have a link for a Aussie seller paulie?

If you are talking about the Quickfuel tester Performance Wholesale up here in QLD were selling them. 07 3808 1986.

dieseltrain79 · 30-04-2012, 03:24 PM

I think you'll find the martini stuff is ethanol mixed with their m109 Unleaded race fuel . Hence the nice big octane rating . 85% ethanol 15% 109

yummy !!!..

I think the point everyone is missing , is the octane rating ! Yes it's all 85% ethanol , but if they are mixing the 15% with 91 grade fuel compared to 95 or 98 , then Obviously the octane has changed .. I think this may explain some engines suffering inconsistencies in power and track times ( as I've always said to you Paul ;) ) .

Where the drum race stuff is consistently mixed with the same grade gasoline giving consistent Octane ratings and power outputs !

prasac · 30-04-2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

I think you'll find the martini stuff is ethanol mixed with their m109 Unleaded race fuel . Hence the nice big octane rating . 85% ethanol 15% 109

yummy !!!..

I think the point everyone is missing , is the octane rating ! Yes it's all 85% ethanol , but if they are mixing the 15% with 91 grade fuel compared to 95 or 98 , then Obviously the octane has changed .. I think this may explain some engines suffering inconsistencies in power and track times ( as I've always said to you Paul ;) ) .

Where the drum race stuff is consistently mixed with the same grade gasoline giving consistent Octane ratings and power outputs !

also mixing a harder to ignite race fuel, with another hard to ignite fuel will not benefit either, no matter what the octane rating is. especially if your ignition system is not up to the task.

dieseltrain79 · 30-04-2012, 05:03 PM

If your running martini e85 I'm assuming you don't have a Kia ;)

I'll put it another term ...

If I told you gasoline was 100% no ethanol would you tune on it with knowing its either 95 or 98 octane ?

Answer is NO every time .

Anyways I hope people understand my point . Yes E85 is great , but until they show an octane rating , then I doubt you can tune consistency into it unless tuning for each batch like Joes Capri .