Will the Holden brand survive? - Page 9

falcon_bandit · 16-09-2018, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Just to highlight how on the nose the Holden brand is to non car people, my ex is looking to replace her 10yo Honda with something smaller, thru my Holden guy above, I can get an Astra fully loaded for $7k off RRP, on suggesting this she laughed and flatly refused to get anything with a Holden badge after seeing how many times my work cars break. For her, it will be a Hyundai/Kia, seems the rest of the buying public feel the same.

So holden is stuffed, because you bargained hard to save your "ex" $7000 on a car, and your "ex" laughed because she knows your work cars like the back of her hand. Makes sense.....

danzvtil · 16-09-2018, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcon_bandit

So holden is stuffed, because you bargained hard to save your "ex" $7000 on a car, and your "ex" laughed because she knows your work cars like the back of her hand. Makes sense.....

Uwotm8?

You have been reading about Holden’s plight, right? You don’t need to take my word for it.

And why does ex have the “”? I can write, former spouse,friend,mother of my child, but that gets tedious.

She did drive the Astra LTZ this weekend but ended up in another Honda, 7 yr warranty, 7 yr roadside, and they rolled out the red carpet for being a longtime client.

Trendseeker · 16-09-2018, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackney

It is the only way that they can survive,by multi-franchising.The local Ford dealer in my area also sells MG,KIA & Isuzu ute.Cheers

Yep, that’s my point. The brands that are not large enough can’t stand alone. That wasn’t an issue for Holden a few years ago, but not any more. The local Toyota and Mazda dealers don’t sell any other brands. The local Ford dealer also sells Renault.

EBSXR6 · 16-09-2018, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Yep, that’s my point. The brands that are not large enough can’t stand alone. That wasn’t an issue for Holden a few years ago, but not any more. The local Toyota and Mazda dealers don’t sell any other brands. The local Ford dealer also sells Renault.

In the Capital cities quite a lot of Dealers are controlled by Companies that have a lot of different dealers. Preston Motors, Jefferson Automotive Group, Automotive Holdings Group and Gasmak Motor group are a few.

au2000 · 17-09-2018, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcon_bandit

So holden is stuffed, because you bargained hard to save your "ex" $7000 on a car, and your "ex" laughed because she knows your work cars like the back of her hand. Makes sense.....

Tbh I'd agree that Holden as a company is stuffed and trading on borrowed time, the signs are there as they were 5 years ago before ford n Holden announced their closures when they stopped marking falcons and commodores as falcons and commodores and badged them as xt, omega, xr6 and ss only.
That was a blatant public sign that both company's were looking to move away from their falcon and commodore branding in the lead up to those models demise.

Only difference now is that ford is a global company name which is on cars in each country which has landed firmly on mustang and ranger in Australia while Holden is a local branch of GM who are struggling to maintain traction.
Yes the Camaro and silverado are on their way but to further take away from the Holden name they will arrive with Chevy GM branding, not the Holden lion, for the average joe buyer who's not a car nut it will further confuse them having to goto a Holden dealer to buy a Chevy,

In my time of buying cars I've never heard of anyone walking into a dealer to buy a new released new car and getting 7 grand off especially given it's a sub 30 grand car unless it included a trade in.

I have no doubts that gradually you will see more n more Holden products be removed and a slow intro of now chev products until the time arrives that chev becomes the newer stronger nameplate.

Bossxr8 · 17-09-2018, 12:02 PM

They had another horror month, and are struggling just to stay in the top 10. Finished 9th last month.

BENT_8 · 17-09-2018, 01:45 PM

They sold 1600 units fewer than Ford and if you take utes from both brands out of the equation they outsold the rest of Fords lineup by 400 units and they dont even have a sports coupe to compete with Mustang.

jpd80 · 17-09-2018, 06:43 PM

Not having a shot at you or your logic but,
You do realise that the majority of that 400 difference comes from Holden's
better bottom end sales, segments where profitability is comparatively less
and clearly where Ford couldn't do any worse if it tried......

Barina (229), Trax (550), Astra (571) and Equinox (407)........Total = 1,757
Fiesta (18), Ecosport (84), Focus (358) and Escape (403).........Total = 589

Notice how the difference declines as we move away from the subcompacts.
Above those segments, it's a lot harder for Holden fans to take comfort
so I'm not surprised that you cherry pick certain upper segments....

perhaps I just leave the figures here for you to think about....

Ford EcoSport 84
Ford Escape 403
Ford Everest 492
Ford Fiesta 18
Ford Focus 358
Ford Mondeo 128
Ford Mustang 736
Ford Ranger 4X2 432
Ford Ranger 4X4 3,083
Ford Transit Custom 178
Ford Transit Heavy 49

Holden Astra 571
Holden Barina 229
Holden Captiva 266
Holden Colorado 4X2 170
Holden Colorado 4X4 1,269
Holden Commodore 682
Holden Equinox 407
Holden Spark 11
Holden Trailblazer 197
Holden Trax 550
Holden Utility 4X2 4

Trendseeker · 17-09-2018, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

In the Capital cities quite a lot of Dealers are controlled by Companies that have a lot of different dealers. Preston Motors, Jefferson Automotive Group, Automotive Holdings Group and Gasmak Motor group are a few.

Agreed, but they maintain separate showrooms and yards for the brands that can stand alone. The brands with smaller sales volumes are sold from the one showroom and yard, and that is what has happened to the local Holden dealership that has operated in the area since the sixties. It’s single showroom and yard, which is quite large and once sold only new Holdens, plus any variety of traded used cars, now hosts 3 brands.

BENT_8 · 17-09-2018, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not having a shot at you or your logic but,
You do realise that the majority of that 400 difference comes from Holden's
better bottom end sales, segments where profitability is comparatively less
and clearly where Ford couldn't do any worse if it tried......

Barina (229), Trax (550), Astra (571) and Equinox (407)........Total = 1,757
Fiesta (18), Ecosport (84), Focus (358) and Escape (403).........Total = 589

Notice how the difference declines as we move away from the subcompacts.
Above those segments, it's a lot harder for Holden fans to take comfort
so I'm not surprised that you cherry pick certain upper segments....

perhaps I just leave the figures here for you to think about....

Ford EcoSport 84
Ford Escape 403
Ford Everest 492
Ford Fiesta 18
Ford Focus 358
Ford Mondeo 128
Ford Mustang 736
Ford Ranger 4X2 432
Ford Ranger 4X4 3,083
Ford Transit Custom 178
Ford Transit Heavy 49

Holden Astra 571
Holden Barina 229
Holden Captiva 266
Holden Colorado 4X2 170
Holden Colorado 4X4 1,269
Holden Commodore 682
Holden Equinox 407
Holden Spark 11
Holden Trailblazer 197
Holden Trax 550
Holden Utility 4X2 4

I dont need to think about **** to be honest, im not a bean counter so i dont care who sells the higher margin cars, my point was that despite the discrepancy of sales and ladder position, Holden are still selling a greater spread of their range than Ford.
Holden dont have a competitor for Mustang, Transit custom or transit heavy which account for 960 of the 1600 unit deficeit so when comparing apples with apples its really only a 650 unit margin.

Holdens ladder position over the past 6 months is more to do with the performance of Kia, VW and Nissan and it wont be long before they are knocking loudly on Fords door at no5 as well.

Bossxr8 · 18-09-2018, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont need to think about **** to be honest, im not a bean counter so i dont care who sells the higher margin cars, my point was that despite the discrepancy of sales and ladder position, Holden are still selling a greater spread of their range than Ford.
Holden dont have a competitor for Mustang, Transit custom or transit heavy which account for 960 of the 1600 unit deficeit so when comparing apples with apples its really only a 650 unit margin.

Holdens ladder position over the past 6 months is more to do with the performance of Kia, VW and Nissan and it wont be long before they are knocking loudly on Fords door at no5 as well.

Solid melt.

JPD made a solid point that Holdens extra sales in passenger cars are mostly segments where profits are nearly non-existant. Especially for Holden who are forced to discount the crap out of them just to get them off the lot. Their profit levels must be comically low.

jpd80 · 18-09-2018, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont need to think about **** to be honest, im not a bean counter so i dont care who sells the higher margin cars, my point was that despite the discrepancy of sales and ladder position, Holden are still selling a greater spread of their range than Ford.
Holden dont have a competitor for Mustang, Transit custom or transit heavy which account for 960 of the 1600 unit deficeit so when comparing apples with apples its really only a 650 unit margin.

Holdens ladder position over the past 6 months is more to do with the performance of Kia, VW and Nissan and it wont be long before they are knocking loudly on Fords door at no5 as well.

Honestly, from your lips to God's ears that's true for Holden.

We simply can't ignore Ford's more successful vehicles to conjure some sort
of moral victory for Holden,that like living in bigger denial than Holden's execs.

Holden's ladder position over the last six months has more to do with it's lack
of buyers - it's not Ford's fault that Holden couldn't get a factory RHD Camaro
or that it can't get a relatively fresh Colorado to sell worth a damn against
an ageing Ranger.

Smoke Pursuit · 18-09-2018, 01:17 PM

Holden's biggest problem are margins, at wholesale and also dealer level. Theres very little fat left in cars with the push to move them.

Ford are also struggling with margins as per why you will no longer see online advertising on carsales come the end of this month. Yes Ford has a huge sales volume with Ranger but the margins at dealer level are quite low. No point in selling 4000 vehicles a month with $100 profit in each one. With the changes to to the finance industry and what commission dealers can make out of selling finance you will see a big shake up across the industry. My bet is cars will have less discounting in the future as dealers try to survive the hit that they are about to endure.

bangm001 · 18-09-2018, 01:19 PM

I actually didn't think there would be as many new holdens on our roads as we currently have.

Windsor220 · 18-09-2018, 04:34 PM

With Holdens total sales you also have to remember Barina, Spark and Commodore ute have been axed so that's almost another 250 sales to be lost. Not sure what's happening with Commodore and if they are still selling VFs.

davenl5l · 19-09-2018, 01:56 PM

Breaking News a certain very old holden/hsv dealer in sadelaide has just asked for voluntary redundancies or people will be sacked 2nd time this year

Bossxr8 · 19-09-2018, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davenl5l

Breaking News a certain very old holden/hsv dealer in sadelaide has just asked for voluntary redundancies or people will be sacked 2nd time this year

This is the collateral damage of such low Holden sales. I reckon a lot of dealers would be feeling the pinch.

Didn't Holden already force the closure of a really big dealership in Adelaide recently?

GT450 · 19-09-2018, 02:21 PM

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

davenl5l · 19-09-2018, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the collateral damage of such low Holden sales. I reckon a lot of dealers would be feeling the pinch.

Didn't Holden already force the closure of a really big dealership in Adelaide recently?

Quote:

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

Hey GTP534, which dealer was that? I would like to give them a call to find out more.

Yes Metro Holden ceased being a dealer around xmas

jpd80 · 19-09-2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT450

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

Ok since we’re poking the bear here, let’s back it up with facts and figures
to refute the belief that Holden has a substantially greater spread of sales.

So let’s look at the figures in those 12 segments and this much is clear:

Ford leads sales in seven segments, Holden in five including the near
dead heat in compact SUV..............

1. Subcompact cars
Ford Fiesta………………..…..18
Holden Spark………………….11
Holden Barina………………229

2. Compact cars
Ford Focus……………..……..358
Holden Astra………………….571

3. Medium cars
Ford Mondeo………………..128
Holden (no entrant)………….0

4. Large cars
Ford (no entrant)………………0
Holden Commodore……..682

5. Sports Car
Ford Mustang………………..736
Holden (no entrant)………….0

6. Subcompact SUV
Ford EcoSport………………...84
Holden Trax…………………..550

7. Compact SUV
Ford Escape……………..……403
Holden Equinox…………….407

8. Medium SUV
Ford Everest………………….492
Holden Captiva………….….266
Holden Trailblazer………..197

9. 4x2 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X2…………..432
Holden Colorado 4X2…..170
Holden Utility 4X2……………4

10. 4x4 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X4………....3,083
Holden Colorado 4X4…..1,269

11. Medium Van
Ford Transit Custom……….178
Holden (no entrant)……….….0

12. Heavy Van
Ford Transit Heavy……………49
Holden (no entrant)……..…….0

**Fordman1** · 19-09-2018, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT450

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

Bent_0 has an agenda, it’s obvious.

BENT_8 · 19-09-2018, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ok since we’re poking the bear here, let’s back it up with facts and figures
to refute the belief that Holden has a substantially greater spread of sales.

So let’s look at the figures in those 12 segments and this much is clear:

Ford leads sales in seven segments, Holden in five including the near
dead heat in compact SUV..............

1. Subcompact cars
Ford Fiesta………………..…..18
Holden Spark………………….11
Holden Barina………………229

2. Compact cars
Ford Focus……………..……..358
Holden Astra………………….571

3. Medium cars
Ford Mondeo………………..128
Holden (no entrant)………….0

4. Large cars
Ford (no entrant)………………0
Holden Commodore……..682

5. Sports Car
Ford Mustang………………..736
Holden (no entrant)………….0

6. Subcompact SUV
Ford EcoSport………………...84
Holden Trax…………………..550

7. Compact SUV
Ford Escape……………..……403
Holden Equinox…………….407

8. Medium SUV
Ford Everest………………….492
Holden Captiva………….….266
Holden Trailblazer………..197

9. 4x2 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X2…………..432
Holden Colorado 4X2…..170
Holden Utility 4X2……………4

10. 4x4 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X4………....3,083
Holden Colorado 4X4…..1,269

11. Medium Van
Ford Transit Custom……….178
Holden (no entrant)……….….0

12. Heavy Van
Ford Transit Heavy……………49
Holden (no entrant)……..…….0

Lol, how many of those 12 segments do both have an entrant in?
7 and its 4-3 in Holdens favour.
You can cut that back to 6 soon and take out the subcompact segment as both manufacturers are abandoning it but in its replacement, Subcompact SUV, Holden has a huge advantage.
The only place Ford has a genuine advantage over Holden is in the 4x4 ute market when comparing apples with apples.

Syndrome · 19-09-2018, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davenl5l

Breaking News a certain very old holden/hsv dealer in sadelaide has just asked for voluntary redundancies or people will be sacked 2nd time this year

Hamilton Holden & HSV

jpd80 · 19-09-2018, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, how many of those 12 segments do both have an entrant in?
7 and its 4-3 in Holdens favour.

And there you go again, Ford has entrants in 11 of those segments while Holden has entrants in 8.
You're clutching at straws by ignoring all the high sales area just to prove Holden sells more subcompacts..

Quote:

You can cut that back to 6 soon and take out the subcompact segment as both manufacturers are abandoning it but in its replacement, Subcompact SUV, Holden has a huge advantage.

Overseas, we're already seeing next gen Ecosport mules - kinda resembles Mazda CX-3
Also inbound is next generation Escape, Focus and of course Endura is about to arrive..

Quote:

The only place Ford has a genuine advantage over Holden is in the 4x4 ute market when comparing apples with apples.

Without a doubt, Ford has the oldest line up of any brand in Australia,
Ford will be taking the up elevator next year but Holden, we'll wait and see..

BENT_8 · 19-09-2018, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT450

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

Actually i dont, im a fan of locally built Fords, the company itself can get stuffed and i've never shied away from that stance.
I didnt take anything out to suit my argument, i was simply saying that utes aside, Holden are holding their own in numbers, maybe not profit margins, but more people are buying the rest of Holdens range than they are buying Fords, the numbers dont lie but unfortunately rather than just accept that this is true, we have guys like jdp banging on about profit margins which has nothing to do with the point of my post.
Obviously Holden would love to be moving 3000 Colorado's a month, but im sure if you asked Ford they'd prefer to be moving 18k units a month like Toyota.
Despite what you might think, both brands are a shadow of their former selves with the real enemy closing in whilst guys like yourself beat your chests over a 1600 ute sales advantage over a fellow bit player.
I get it though, when you cant compete for outright supremecy, any wins a win.

jpd80 · 19-09-2018, 08:04 PM

Here you go,
https://www.holden.com.au/offers#?showall=true
Astra sedan from $17,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...
Equinox SUV from $27,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...

I bet anyone who wants a Holden would get a ripper of a deal at the moment,
Ford not so much...

BENT_8 · 19-09-2018, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

You're clutching at straws by ignoring all the high sales area just to prove Holden sells more subcompacts..

No im not, one of those 3 in Fords favour is 4x4 ute of which they are miles ahead, how is including that segment ignoring it, the fact is, of those 7 segments that they BOTH compete in, Holden is in front 4 to 3.

Of the remaining 5 segments, Ford competes in 4 for around 1100 sales whilst Holden competes in 1 for almost 700.
Ford may compete in more segments, but apart from Ranger, they arent really setting records now hey.

**PG2** · 19-09-2018, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

No im not, one of those 3 in Fords favour is 4x4 ute of which they are miles ahead, how is including that segment ignoring it, the fact is, of those 7 segments that they BOTH compete in, Holden is in front 4 to 3.

Of the remaining 5 segments, Ford competes in 4 for around 1100 sales whilst Holden competes in 1 for almost 700.
Ford may compete in more segments, but apart from Ranger, they arent really setting records now hey.

bent_8

This is a serious question, so please answer it but think about it before answering.

Do you log on here because you are a Ford fan/enthusiasts or to troll?

BENT_8 · 19-09-2018, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Here you go,
https://www.holden.com.au/offers#?showall=true
Astra sedan from $17,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...
Equinox SUV from $27,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...

I bet anyone who wants a Holden would get a ripper of a deal at the moment,
Ford not so much...

Lol, Ford are offering Escape at 29,990 with 0.9% finance

BENT_8 · 19-09-2018, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

bent_8

This is a serious question, so please answer it but think about it before answering.

Do you log on here because you are a Ford fan/enthusiasts or to troll?

Neither, im a Falcon and just recently a Territory fan.

Now if you wouldn't mind answering one for me, to be allowed to log on here do i need to salivate over the brand or can i call it as i see it.

Also, since you quoted that posts, is there anything in it that is factually incorrect and if so, what?