5 young men killed in high speed crash. - Page 9

Dave_Obsession · 18-01-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8D

and as for the pics, I do understand it would have been nasty, but taking pics after the paramedics/firies have used the jaws of life on the car and claiming it to be the result of the accident is stretching it a fair bit.

So when the paramedic who arrived on the scene said it was the worst crash he's ever seen in more than 30 years as a paramedic.....what does that tell you? I wager the scene wouldn't have been much better before they used the jaws of life...

Bobman · 18-01-2010, 12:53 PM

From The Age:

Quote:

''He was everything,'' said Johnstone's girlfriend of two years, Natalie Bryant, who was with him at the party. After the gatecrashers arrived, she said, he had decided to move his high-powered 2007 Ford XR6, his pride and joy. He climbed in with his younger half-brother, Will Te-Whare, 15, and four other mates, but was quickly surrounded by five or six men who tried to get him out.

According to his girlfriend, Johnstone sped off in anger. Some gatecrashers ran after him while others piled into another car and drove off in pursuit, she said.

That adds another scenario to the story. If anyone has been chased by a mob in another car, you can understand how the adrenaline pumps through. I was chased once just for beeping at a car in front of me that didn't move when the lights were green. Almost killed myself in the process and the car only drove away when I turned into a police station car park.

I'm sick and tired of hearing the media reporting "high powered Falcon".

04redxr8 · 18-01-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

From The Age:

That adds another scenario to the story. If anyone has been chased by a mob in another car, you can understand how the adrenaline pumps through. I was chased once just for beeping at a car in front of me that didn't move when the lights were green. Almost killed myself in the process and the car only drove away when I turned into a police station car park.

If you are being chased, your mates would not be hanging out of the car windows. Sounds like it may be somebody elses fault. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Why am I not surprised.

[/QUOTE]I'm sick and tired of hearing the media reporting "high powered Falcon".[/QUOTE]

I completley agree. I wonder if the same fuss would have been made if the car was a Commodre with a SIDI engine.

Bobman · 18-01-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

If you are being chased, your mates would not be hanging out of the car windows. Sounds like it may be somebody elses fault. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Why am I not surprised.

No, no. I was just putting an alternative theory forward. Yes, it was the drivers fault at the end of the day. Certain circumstances always contribute but the sole cause was the driver's actions. A complete waste of life.

UNR8D · 18-01-2010, 01:07 PM

bobman, ur correct.. no more powerfull than a toyota aurion/SV6 commodore... they are quick in a sence but in comparision to what exactly are they 'HIGH' powered? power to weight matters, 200kw in a 1.8Ton falcon is quickish, 200kw in a .8T lotus is mental. wayy to much focus on the output rather than the power to weight which is WHAT makes it FAST, and on top of that the article you speek about certainly does add in a context that wasnt showen in other reports, if they were being chased thats a different ballgame alltogether.

no 4V man, im not missing the point, note I did make mention about family/and particulary the girl, the point is all this causes is knee jerk reactions my morons put in power who think they can controll everything... I dont think that much would have stopped this from occuring certainly not a speedcamera, perhaps a marked vehicle if they didnt do a runner.... but why legislate/ban/law make because one person made a severe error of judgement?.

04redxr8 · 18-01-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

No, no. I was just putting an alternative theory forward. Yes, it was the drivers fault at the end of the day. Certain circumstances always contribute but the sole cause was the driver's actions. A complete waste of life.

I understand that. My response was within what i said in my earlier post, regarding a generation that doesn't accept responsibility for their own actions. (not all, but some). Why was his "Pride and Joy" even at the party when it was allegedly unregistered? Also, he appears to have a history of doing stupid things, and then not abiding by the punishments handed down.

Would you even get into a car driven by a person like this?

Trek · 18-01-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

I'm sick and tired of hearing the media reporting "high powered Falcon".

In total agreeance with you here. Another push for harsher restrictions where they are not necessary due to something being exaggerated and sensationalised by a bunch of 'educated' (idiotic) people.

As for the loss of life, it's extremely unfortunate, as well as the injuries the girl suffered. Ultimately, the driver paid the price/suffered the consequences of his unnecessary behaviour/actions.

Just thankful the incident didn't snowball into something worse with more damage/harm involved for the unsuspecting public.

Dave_Obsession · 18-01-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8D

but why legislate/ban/law make because one person made a severe error of judgement?.

I agree with this....we shouldn't all have to suffer due to one instance of recklessness....not that the government has said anything.....yet...

exactly · 18-01-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

i think your logic is flawed, blameing dad for letting the driver have an xr6 is just wrong imo, this could have happened in proton or a pulsar or a 73 corona.

yes i agree but he wont be doing 140km in a proton with five people or have the kids wanting to go for a ride in proton coz it go o-100 as fast as xr6
///////????????

Dave_Obsession · 18-01-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exactly

yes i agree but he wont be doing 140km in a proton with five people or have the kids wanting to go for a ride in proton coz it go o-100 as fast as xr6
///////????????

Why not? If the kids only had a proton to go out in, they would have gone out in a proton....who's to say they wouldn't have been going at a similarly fast speed? Do you think the devastation would have been any less if all 6 of them were squashed into a proton, and it hit the tree at only 120kmh????

If that had happened, we'd all be sitting here saying the same stuff...

4.0i_SiX · 18-01-2010, 01:27 PM

Why do the media assume the xr6 is a performance car? It has the exact same engine as a base model XT

almost any car on the road is capable of reaching 140km/h, imagine hitting a tree in a barina or something. Would the media then say Smalls cars are unsafe? No..

exactly · 18-01-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave93761

Why not? If the kids only had a proton to go out in, they would have gone out in a proton....who's to say they wouldn't have been going at a similarly fast speed? Do you think the devastation would have been any less if all 6 of them were squashed into a proton, and it hit the tree at only 120kmh????

If that had happened, we'd all be sitting here saying the same stuff...

you dont know that for shaw . even if it is a possible fact of if ???? then we as parents should do .my girls will not be driving six cyl cars or v8s turbos etc etc etc as they are faster and they whole thing is to what ???????
slow these kids down

RedHotGT · 18-01-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exactly

yes i agree but he wont be doing 140km in a proton with five people or have the kids wanting to go for a ride in proton coz it go o-100 as fast as xr6
///////????????

Any car on the road is capable of driving faster than ALL speed limits...
So while a Proton with 5 people in it might not get to 140km/h as quickly as an XR6... it could still get there all the same....

As I remember, I wasn't the first of my group of friends that turned 18 or had a car... So it didn't matter who had the car, or what it was... so long as it was A CAR....
In my time it was KE Laser bubblebacks (comparable to a Proton Hatch) and they could certainly still get to 140km/h (with a bit of a tailwind or run-up) and still be lethal all the same...

The solution to the problem is changing the mentality of our younger drivers...
EVERY time you take to the road, you take your own life and all other road users lives in your hands...

And I don't think that many drivers (not just the young ones) actually consider this EACH and EVERY time they turn the ignition key...

geckoGT · 18-01-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exactly

yes i agree but he wont be doing 140km in a proton with five people or have the kids wanting to go for a ride in proton coz it go o-100 as fast as xr6
///////????????

The parents have a 1.8l Corolla hatch, common as a P plate car. You could jam 6 in that and do 140 in the same area of road. Yes it would be dumb, just as dumb as what has happened. Cars are not the problem, the drivers are.

**russellw** · 18-01-2010, 01:32 PM

Let's keep this on topic - there have been some well considered posts in this thread and I don't want to see it closed because people cannot respect the right of another to an opinion that differs from theirs.

Regards
Russ

exactly · 18-01-2010, 01:34 PM

if one servived for being in a six good thank god they wernt in a v8 coz none would servive if it was a four would only 3 die maybe

RedHotGT · 18-01-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exactly

if one servived for being in a six good thank god they wernt in a v8 coz none would servive if it was a four would only 3 die maybe

there is obviously no logic behind what you have just said...

I'm pretty sure the engine size does not determine how bad a car crash is....

Dave_Obsession · 18-01-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exactly

if one servived for being in a six good thank god they wernt in a v8 coz none would servive if it was a four would only 3 die maybe

How exactly did you work this out? I'm all for respecting one's opinion but come on, seriously....

So does this mean that if all six of them were in a Smart car, that only 1 or 2 of them would have died??

exactly · 18-01-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

there is obviously no logic behind what you have just said...

I'm pretty sure the engine size does not determine how bad a car crash is....

how can u say that when ther is allready laws stating what they can drive on what licence

Road_Warrior · 18-01-2010, 01:38 PM

It doesn't matter a stuff what size, type, make, model or engine size the subject vehicle has or had. If the person in control of the said vehicle is driving in an irresponsible manner, the same recipe for disaster exists regardless.

I do a little bit of driving/riding instructing on the side, more for friends and family than anything, but the thing I emphasise the most is risk management. Drivers (or riders) don't seem to classify themselves as a risk factor that needs to be managed and I think this is one of the most overlooked aspects of driver training.

exactly · 18-01-2010, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by dave93761
Why not? If the kids only had a proton to go out in, they would have gone out in a proton....who's to say they wouldn't have been going at a similarly fast speed? Do you think the devastation would have been any less if all 6 of them were squashed into a proton, and it hit the tree at only 120kmh????

If that had happened, we'd all be sitting here saying the same stuff...

4.0i_SiX · 18-01-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

there is obviously no logic behind what you have just said...

I'm pretty sure the engine size does not determine how bad a car crash is....

I think he was being sarcastic. And I agree, to say they would have been better off in a 4 cylinder is just plain ignorant and stupid ( no offence to anyone )

The outcome would have been the same in ANY car, You cant restrict L or P platers to 4 cylinder cars. How the hell are they going to get their 100 hours up if mum and dad only own a 6 cylinder. Theyre better off learning how to control power rather than jump in a 6 or v8 when theyre allowed to, plant the foot and smash into a pole because theyre only used to a 4 cylinder

exactly · 18-01-2010, 01:42 PM

you wrote it dave
Do you think the devastation would have been any less if all 6 of them were squashed into a proton, and it hit the tree at only 120kmh????
the answer to this yes

Dave_Obsession · 18-01-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

...the thing I emphasise the most is risk management. Drivers (or riders) don't seem to classify themselves as a risk factor that needs to be managed and I think this is one of the most overlooked aspects of driver training.

Spot on.....every time you see an ACA, TT or 60 minutes thing about younger people behind the wheel, this is evident when they actually speak to the kids. A lot of younger drivers think it's all about what's going on outside the car, and it has nothing to do with what they can actually control inside the car.....when in fact a lot of the time, it's the exact opposite.

Dave_Obsession · 18-01-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exactly

you wrote it dave
Do you think the devastation would have been any less if all 6 of them were squashed into a proton, and it hit the tree at only 120kmh????
the answer to this yes

If you honestly believe this, I'm saddened......but that's your opinion, and that's fine

exactly · 18-01-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

I think he was being sarcastic. And I agree, to say they would have been better off in a 4 cylinder is just plain ignorant and stupid ( no offence to anyone )

The outcome would have been the same in ANY car, You cant restrict L or P platers to 4 cylinder cars. How the hell are they going to get their 100 hours up if mum and dad only own a 6 cylinder. Theyre better off learning how to control power rather than jump in a 6 or v8 when theyre allowed to, plant the foot and smash into a pole because theyre only used to a 4 cylinder

i do agree i have 2 falcons my wifes au and my el my girls will learn to drive by me in these cars but will not own one .and yes will learn power slides skids hand brackys and all but they will not do it for fun once they have ther p it is for safety only

Dave_Obsession · 18-01-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exactly

i do agree i have 2 falcons my wifes au and my el my girls will learn to drive by me in these cars but will not own one .and yes will learn power slides skids hand brackys and all but they will not do it for fun once they have ther p it is for safety only

Are you a trained driving instructor?

Defensive driving courses simply must become mandatory for all new P-Plate drivers. Regardless of how much this may cost, it's not worth having tragedies like what we saw yesterday morning.

ltd · 18-01-2010, 01:51 PM

exactly, there are too many differing factors to consider before determining the ultimate number of casualties between a falcon and a proton at various speeds. Yes, the mass of the vehicle multiplied by the speed was the determining force, but then you have to break down the collision with the tree and determine the structural strength of both cars and the various critical deformation and failure points, the lateral movement of the tree, the cross sectional area of the tyres and the condition to determine adhesion, the vertical acceleration of the vehicle and the aforementioned tyres regarding adhesive loading; and a whole bunch of other factors before determining the outcome. As a general rule though, a proton is not built to withstand side impacts at all and has fared rather poorly in comparitive crash tests. The falcon on the other hand was designed to give better side intrusion protection although the force of the accident has obviously exceeded the maximum loading for the car, and the structure resultantly failed.

If I were to have an opinion, if a falcon does that at 140km/h then you'd only need to do about 90km/h in a Proton for the same result.

LTDHO · 18-01-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

what difference would that have made there? at 120 they would still all be dead. speed caps aren't the answer either.

They were travelling at 160, probably hit tree at 120. If they were at 120 they would have hit tree at 80 or less. Resulting in less casualties or even accident prevention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.C.

I don't think this will solve anything. It is not the car that is the problem but the person driving it that causes these accidents to happen. One can still die in an accident with the car limited to a certain speed. Then what?

It will protect those who feel they are invincible, whilst I agree that it’s the driver doing the killing not the driver, but the driver will never learn, this one didn’t until it was too late!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave93761

I have to say I disagree, especially with the police cars bit...

Why do police cars need to go faster than 120? They ‘call off’ chases at those speeds anyway.

If speed kills, why do we need vehicles that can carry us at 200kph?

merlin · 18-01-2010, 01:53 PM

I agree with the general consensus that not much could have been done to prevent this tragedy.

However I do think that more highway patrol cars both unmarked and marked are needed. By all reports the idiot was seen zooming in and out of traffic for some time beforehand - if there had actually been a cop car patrolling he may have been stopped (this is not a critisim of the police but of the funding they recieve). I don't think this particular idiot would have run - he wasn't a hardened criminal - just a speeding P plater. The police can't be everywhere at once but increasing police numbers will see it more likley that these people are intercepted before an incident like this occurs.