FG wagon - what would it have been?

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

More likely they bought an SUV instead. You only need to look at the number of SUV sales these days to know a hell of a lot of people have moved out of traditional large cars and into SUV's.

Spot on mate i see more SUV driving around than cars & wagons. that is why the Territory was done instead of the terra ute thingy , the public said no even tho it was a great design, ford went the SUV way & holden went the OMG a ford clone way in the now what did they call that thing??????????

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I have similar thoughts.

The roof needs to be raised behind the B pillar to keep the roof flat, it droops down a bit and doesn't look right.

He did say it was a night jobby , yes i agree it looks wierd like that it has to be more the height & tapper down rather than a sharp tapper he has done, pretty good try tho

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well in that case they either did not buy a wagon at all of have been holden drivers for over a decade.

What is this fixation that some people have that all holden buyers would buy fords instead if only there was a [insert fantasy model combination here].

Bottom line:

This thread is full of angst and whimsy about a vehicle that will never be made. It is interesting to note that most if not everyone in this thread have a lot of things in common:

1) They do not drive an old falcon wagon.
2) They do not drive a new or old holden wagon.
3) They have NEVER bought a new wagon of any type.

I have had new ESCORT wagon , new GS XAfalcon WAGON , new TD cortina WAGON , those were for shagging & work & did i say shagging late on just for work i have had used xb wagon, used xc ute, used xf wagon the used ones i had for WORK i also had an EX aus post transit van wow the i6 in that thing was fast even fully loaded

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by sbutler

OMG Im going blind reading multi pages about the dropping of the wagon.
IMO Ford in there usual rush dissisions **** themselfs, for a couple of reasons.
Holden were propped up by us the tax payer when it was clear they were in trouble.
Ford on the other hand was still turning a small profit.
So what they did, was drop a line of cars that they [wrongly] thought was a better buy than the wagon. The Territory. The Terrys sold well & took SOME wagon buyers away. So easy fix & save $$ drop the wagon. [Wrong move,] but it saved money & the govermant wasnt gonna prop up Ford like they did Holden.

Now as for the taxi V sportwagon debate.
IF Ford were to bring out a wagon they MUST seperate them completly. A base model taxi pac with LPG or whatever fuel they will be using.
Then a consumer/Joe public Sportwagon, minimum XR6 spec with XR6T as option. That way there would be no confusion it would be a completly different market segmant.
Abdula= taxi pac.
Joe public= Sportwagon.
If the smarties on here can desgin a very smart looking Wagon surely Ford can & market them accordingly.. My 2 bob worth.

I think FORD aus designers would know how to design one, it just isn't going to happen, with the global stuff happening in the financial markets , guess what there will be no buyers to buy NEW cars if it all collapses??????????

[max_torq]

One of the perceived strengths of the wagon was the robust but simple leaf rear.. but this was getting a bit old, especially in a XR6T variant, for a FG. What is the territory rear suspension and why could it not be adopted under the wagon body? surely that was the only major technical barrier to a new wagon.

[FPV GTHO]

The Falcon wagon hasnt changed much in some ways since the XD. IMO THAT was the technical barrier.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by turboxf

If there were that many sold we would see heaps of them i see 1 a month & no it isn't the same one

Well WA must be buying them all. They're heaps of new Holden V8 wagons on the road over here.

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by Swordie

What sort of suspension did you put in?

Running King Springs, all standard heights, I think the rear leafs are a heavy duty standard height design and KYB Shocks all round.
The car can hit a speed hump at speed and handle it than what most cars would do at 5-10kph. Not saying I speed through speed humps, just that the car rides better doing a higher speed than you think you need to hit a speed hump.
I have owned wagons all my life.
I just don't know what the next car will be. Might be a Ute.

But Ford's marketing would want me to by a Territory, why, because that's all they can offer me "in place" of a wagon.
It's mass marketing to keep the Territory dream going, people in a job, investors happy and Ford happy, but it's not part of my dream to buy a Territory simply because they "want" me to get out of a wagon.

The niche market of a Wagon is there, just that Ford doesn't deem it to be viable (So why offer it I suppose).
So most people who owned/traded a Ford wagon, bought a Territory (coz that's all Ford could offer), bought a Commodore or went to other manufacturers looking for a solution.

I suppose that Ford, (if) they ever ventured into this FG Wagon kind of idea, would only release a Limited Edition version. It'd be worth a squillion, packed with options though. I would see that it would be fitted with I6 variant (maybe turbo only?). V8 would be out of the question. Maybe even the Ecoboost Turbo?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Spanrz

But Ford's marketing would want me to by a Territory, why, because that's all they can offer me "in place" of a wagon.
It's mass marketing to keep the Territory dream going, people in a job, investors happy and Ford happy, but it's not part of my dream to buy a Territory simply because they "want" me to get out of a wagon.

I dunno...the SYII TTG presents a pretty frikkin compelling argument!!!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Spanrz

But Ford's marketing would want me to by a Territory, why, because that's all they can offer me "in place" of a wagon.

mondeo wagon

[FPV GTHO]

You said yourself, the niche market of the wagon. Key word there is niche. Holden wasted alot of money on niche markets that they dont represent anymore - coupe, one tonner, 4 door ute, awd 4 door ute and awd wagon. And as i said before, the Commodore Sportswagon exists because of (nonexistent) potential exports, not local sales which Holden wouldve known had no serious Falcon wagon competitor planned.

So why is it necessary for Ford to pour money into this niche?

Maybe if Ford produce a Falcon wagon again, Holden should produce a local SUV.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

So why is it necessary for Ford to pour money into this niche?

*puts up hand and waves frantically*

oh i know, pick me, pick me, pick me




because holden do!

[sbutler]

If the wagon market is a "niche" market, why does Telstra most of the electricity suppliers & fleet companys use them & Toyota vans?
Ford make money from this market, dont kid yourself that Ford rely on the public for sales, we[the public] make up SFA of the buyers of Ford products.
Why do Holden sell more sportwagens than povity pac wagons, because not many people want a base model wagon [only fleets] Joe public buy SV6 & SSV8 wagons.
Holden dont have a Terratory, so they need the wagon. So I still say if Ford bought out a wagon they would pick up the fleet market they have lost. If they bought out an XR6T sportwagon it would sell.[I'd be first in line] Would it be a money maker? who knows. One thing we do know, is they dont so we'll never know.

[Bossxr8]

Reality is the Falcon wagon was only selling around 400 a month, nearly all to fleets. Although those monthly sales would be very handy right now the fact is 400 a month isn't going to pay for a few hundred million to R&D an FG wagon right now, not by a long shot.

Its too late in the product cycle of the current platform anyway. Better to put money into Territory thats selling 4 times what the wagon was anyway.

[prydey]

if holden sell as many sportwagons and v8's as many on here think they do, then falcon is outselling commodore (6cyl sedan) by some margin. last time that happened Ford let everyone know about it, so you could assume from the silence that it isn't happening. that means that the v8 and wagon sales aren't as high as what many believe.

the wagon novelty is no doubt wearing off for many buyers. there would have been many that bought a wagon simply because it was something different. come time to upgrade, and the fact that the commodore still looks the same as it did 6 years ago (unless you're a trainspotter), many will either go back to a sedan or buy something else.

[FPV GTHO]

the price Holden are selling their V8's at, across the range not just wagon, suggests their policy is build them first, sell them For what they can get. With low prices and a crap V6 of course theyre more popular

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

You said yourself, the niche market of the wagon. Key word there is niche. Holden wasted alot of money on niche markets that they dont represent anymore - coupe, one tonner, 4 door ute, awd 4 door ute and awd wagon. And as i said before, the Commodore Sportswagon exists because of (nonexistent) potential exports, not local sales which Holden wouldve known had no serious Falcon wagon competitor planned.

So why is it necessary for Ford to pour money into this niche?

Maybe if Ford produce a Falcon wagon again, Holden should produce a local SUV.

Its hardly a 'niche' market. The Holden Sportwagon has been the biggest selling SUV in the country the last couple of years, although Im sure the Territory will knock it off this year.

Also Sportwagon was never confirmed for the US only sedan and ute, the only reason it has been mentioned as there was a grassroots push from the Americans to have it come over.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

the price Holden are selling their V8's at, across the range not just wagon, suggests their policy is build them first, sell them For what they can get. With low prices and a crap V6 of course theyre more popular

The dealers have about $5000 extra factory cash to play with on each sedan than they do the wagons. Holden makes an absolute killing off the Sportwagon.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

if holden sell as many sportwagons and v8's as many on here think they do, then falcon is outselling commodore (6cyl sedan) by some margin. last time that happened Ford let everyone know about it, so you could assume from the silence that it isn't happening. that means that the v8 and wagon sales aren't as high as what many believe.

the wagon novelty is no doubt wearing off for many buyers. there would have been many that bought a wagon simply because it was something different. come time to upgrade, and the fact that the commodore still looks the same as it did 6 years ago (unless you're a trainspotter), many will either go back to a sedan or buy something else.

No ones going back to a sedan. Look at Falcon.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Its hardly a 'niche' market. The Holden Sportwagon has been the biggest selling SUV in the country the last couple of years, although Im sure the Territory will knock it off this year.

regardless of what you think it may be, the sportwagon is not a SUV. even if it was in the SUV bracket, there's no way it would be close to the biggest selling in the country.

have a look at the numbers commodore is selling in and you still maintain the sportwagon sells well over 1000 units/month.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what did they buy or are driving right now?

So far two have selected a Territory and one a Commodore Sportswagon.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Reality is the Falcon wagon was only selling around 400 a month, nearly all to fleets. Although those monthly sales would be very handy right now the fact is 400 a month isn't going to pay for a few hundred million to R&D an FG wagon right now, not by a long shot.

Its too late in the product cycle of the current platform anyway. Better to put money into Territory thats selling 4 times what the wagon was anyway.

Yes the horse has definitely bolted. Toyota Australia wanted a wagon for the new Camry just released, but no other Camry market wanted it. Toyota assume at least 8000 Camry wagon sales a year in Australia. Even though Toyota is pretty conservative the numbers all have to add up in the end.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

regardless of what you think it may be, the sportwagon is not a SUV. even if it was in the SUV bracket, there's no way it would be close to the biggest selling in the country.

have a look at the numbers commodore is selling in and you still maintain the sportwagon sells well over 1000 units/month.

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...924-15pnc.html

Drive September 2010

Last year, the svelte Sportwagon outsold every soft-roader in the country. This year, wagon sales make up more than a third of total Commodore sales.

[prydey]

so even toyota can't make the numbers work and yet people still critisize ford for their decision. ford doesn't really need enemies with fans like these.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...924-15pnc.html

Drive September 2010

An article over a year old with no figures to backup the claims made therein: Zero credibility.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

so even toyota can't make the numbers work and yet people still critisize ford for their decision. ford doesn't really need enemies with fans like these.

Australia only accounts for 5% of camry sales worldwide.... to get any numbers to work would involve a metric many times bigger than what Toyota Australia can probably muster especially as they dont have a design and engineering team like Ford and Holden has here. It makes it a lot harder sell when you cant do the work yourself. But in the end if the numbers dont work the numbers dont work. Ford obviously know what they are doing.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

An article over a year old with no figures to backup the claims made therein: Zero credibility.

the article is discussing wagon sales and says the Sportwagon outsells every other soft-roader. Pretty black and white.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

the article is discussing wagon sales and says the Sportwagon outsells every other soft-roader. Pretty black and white.

It is a year old!!! It does not outsell Territory anymore!!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

the article is discussing wagon sales and says the Sportwagon outsells every other soft-roader. Pretty black and white.

no, it apparently did in 2009. it didn't in 2010 or it would have said so, and it definitely isn't in 2011.

you have always been a sportwagon fanboi. to try and suggest that all those sales are 'extra' compared to commodore 'pre sportwagon', or that if ford built one they would magically increase falcon sales by over 1000units is a little fanciful if you ask me.

[FPV GTHO]

Ford would at best IMO be able to match Holdens sedan/wagon ratio. If Holden sells 3000 Commodores and 1000 of those are wagons, Ford would only be doing about 500 wagons again.