The greatest ever Australian performance car

[CyberWasp]

This is why there is so many problems in the world with Religions and how you interpret even the most simplest of sentences.

The heart of performance is the Engine. To be all Australian, the Engine Block has to be made and assembled in Australia along with the Body of the car.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

This is why there is so many problems in the world with Religions and how you interpret even the most simplest of sentences.

The heart of performance is the Engine. To be all Australian, the Engine Block has to be made and assembled in Australia along with the Body of the car.

G'day ...IF that was the only criteria...Only one to really rate then...
Any Ford Falcon using the Barra DOHC 4.0 Turbo six...From that it'd have to be the F6 310..beaut car and bloody quick...
As this thread proves though , it's really hard to quantify "Australian car " given the overseas owned stuff involved not least the later transmissions etc..
Proves the diversity of this topic and why we differ so much on the answers..... Cheers Rod..

[Express]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

The outright performance 1971 versus 2017 wouldn't even be considered for the HO , not that 0-100 in under 6 seconds and 140+ mph (230kmh). is slow by any means..

Do you agree or not... Cheers Rod...

Personally I think that's slow.


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[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...I'll muddy the waters a bit more...a little off direct topic but just the same.....

If you had to choose one of these two cars :
1. A genuine 1971 XY GTHO Phase 3 Falcon in showroom condition .

like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkHSm0gBZLc
from a good while back A Current Affair story
OR...
2. A brand new 2017 GTSR W1 HSV Commodore..

I'm thinking that on nostalgic , financial value and investment, rarity and outright history the Ford would get the nod more often than the HSV...

The outright performance 1971 versus 2017 wouldn't even be considered for the HO , not that 0-100 in under 6 seconds and 140+ mph (230kmh). is slow by any means..

Do you agree or not... Cheers Rod...

I would pick the W1, every single time... No contest

Originally Posted by FoureverFord

Quote"It seems some people are just jealous that, unlike Ford/FPV, HSV has made an actual effort to send the Commodore off properly, with a properly world class Performance car... "

I'm sorry big daz, but what a load of codswallop, all Holden is trying to do is make as much profit as they can out of the parts they have left, before saying goodbye. It's all about the mighty $, no matter what we think, otherwise Ford & Holden would still be building cars in Aussie. V8's have had their day, large 4 door sedans have had their day. I hear even V8 Supercars are changing to V6's soon. Actually I don't even understand the relevance of this category of racing anymore as these cars, supposedly Commodores & Falcons, don't exist anymore, their production has finished. When you think about it, Bathurst 2018, their will be no new Australian car in the Great Australian race.
It's SUV's now, cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, easier to drive & park. I do understand the passion of the Ford & Holden fans, I grew up on it, I remember watching Moffat the day he won Bathurst in the GTHO, I nearly screamed the house down, was a great day. But alas, those days are over, no longer is there an Austaralian car. I find it to be a very sad situation.

Its been said by the boss of HSV that they are barely making any $$$ on these things... So, sorry, not all about the almighty dollar.

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

This is why there is so many problems in the world with Religions and how you interpret even the most simplest of sentences.

The heart of performance is the Engine. To be all Australian, the Engine Block has to be made and assembled in Australia along with the Body of the car.

lol.. I cant help but laugh.. So that means the GTF and XR8 Sprint are out, and so if the GTHO...

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

This is why there is so many problems in the world with Religions and how you interpret even the most simplest of sentences.

The heart of performance is the Engine. To be all Australian, the Engine Block has to be made and assembled in Australia along with the Body of the car.

Firstly, I disagree with your narrow view. I consider the Miami Australian, uses block from USA, but FPV through prodrive spent 35 million developing the engine, low compression pistons, cams, intake manifold, supercharger, and hand built by 1 Australian. From my end splitting hairs to say not Australian because the block was poured in USA.

This thread makes me laugh- one eyed Ford and one eyed Holden fanatics ffs.

Really the 2017 GTSR W1 HSV is without doubt the most complete Australian engineered 4 door performance vehicle, and is the pinnacle of performance in the country as an overall package.

Do I care, I am a Ford man, for $61,500 on the road I got a hand built 5 litre quad cam supercharged intercooled vehicle on the road, manual tremec 6060 box, and I have blown every HSV GTS and RS8 that have taken on medusa.

In the real world, the Ford miamis and blown barras just seem to pull better than the Holdens. I will no doubt I will come up against a quick Holden that blows medusa- but has not happened yet.

So I am happy with the technical tipping of the hat to the GTSR W1 HSV, but know in the real world 99% of the time the blown fords blow off the real world Holdens.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Express

Here’s what the informative rag Wheels had to say.






http://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/ne...ds0?ocid=ientp


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Greasy strip and the Porsche tested on the same strip same day was also .3 sec off its claimed time ....

So a better day with a dry strip it's likely those numbers would be better which makes it even more conclusive on how quick this thing can be. No mention of rolling acceleration numbers yet....

[shaness8]

Unfortunately Ford dont have anything that can match a GTS or W1 at the strip.

[CyberWasp]

Guys I am only playing devils advocate.

If you look at what I have posted I haven't nominated any particular car, but was just raising the question about a foreign motor.

I know there is no such vehicle that has 100% Australian made parts, or is made by an Australian owned company even. I am just trying to clarify what 'Australian' means to you guys.

[Falcon SXR8]

Problem with these comparisons is there is no real answer if you don't have a set of rules to go by. All we have is 8 pages of holden and ford fanboys making there own rules up then trying to shoot down the opposing team with what is there own opinion.

Fact is both sides have a valid argument the hsv is better performance wise, but is it priced so high it becomes less traditional aussie muscle and more upper class snob/wanabe investment? And is the falcon turbo six/blown v8 more aussie battler performance bargain or half done slugger taxi??? Fact is its all true depending on your outlook on things.

In the end we all just want something that gets our blood pumping and both sides deliver that in spades

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Express

Personally I think that's slow.


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G'day ,,Really !!!!!!!........Not in 1971 it wasn't..It was the fastest four door car on the entire planet...I believe 148 mph or near as dammit to 240 kmh was regularly achieved...On more recent Ford numbers...
So , the FG GTF Falcon had an actual top speed of 297 kmh " as tested "and was speed limited to 255 kmh otherwise ...and 4.6 seconds 0-100...not sure what the official 400 metres was but expect comfortably in the 12's... Generally regarded that the Sprints were actually quicker than the GTF with overboost though..
The W1 is speed limited to 250 kmh , as are all HSV's and a 'theoretical ' top speed of 293 kmh and supposedly 4.2 seconds 0-100...
Not saying that it's a bad car ...It's terrific .. What I am saying that double the price of a GT-F and almost three times the price of either of the Sprints you are paying a pretty big premium ( $80,000 -$110,000 ) more for the right to own one....An awful lot of money for a 3-4 tenths of a second quicker, to get to the national speed limit and a similar top speed in that regard..
Bigger brakes , better handling , fancy tyres a few extra goodies inside make up the bulk of the extra $100 K over a Sprint then...Yeah , money well spent...
All it really comes down to is bragging rights and exclusivity...Bottom line.....Cheers Rod...

[HO 3]

Shame on all you Ford fanatics for dredging up history and putting that old worn out XY GTHO homologation Series Production race car up against the mighty Claytons HSV W1 ( Claytons pun fully intended btw )............didn't the XY GTHO do enough in its past defeating the best that other automotive manufacturers could throw at it over a 3 year period ffs? No that's simply not enough for you is it? The let's drag the old 45 year old war horse mentality out yet again is starting to wear a bit thin, me thinks! Finally Holden fans actually have an opportunity to embrace there own pretend HO in the W1 and you simply can not let them enjoy their 2 seconds of self promoted, delusional fame. W1s 300 build number, track focused suspension, tyres and scrounged 3 or 4 year old motor clearly will carry a light weight provenance that will make them very popular with Holden fans in the future.

Cheers Mick

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Oh ffs.

Even the Phase 3 had an imported engine...

The car was designed here, built here and all the engineering work to fit it was done here.

Also...only sold here.

...G'day ...Same with FPV ...Hardly a crate motor either...This is what took place re the engine build..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeYEG76ii8 Cheers Rod..

[.:4:.]

Perspective. The Cleveland was made in Australia for a time untill 83. So let's say the xe esp. V8 till 1998 was the holden 5L. Yes they had strokers. 250 crossflow (barra, barra turbo) does it really matter?

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Oh ffs.

Even the Phase 3 had an imported engine...

Albeit pulled down and then much massaged to our unique specifications when they got here.

Cheers Mick

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Why do people consider the mustang as the Falcon replacement? Falcon was a four door family car.

Thete is no Falcon replacement other than maybe a mondeo.

G'day...Yes and no on that....Re actual large family sedan offering. you're right about Mondeo but we keep getting told that the two Mustang's are now the Ford 's only RWD performance offering for this country..and if you really want to stretch the argument maybe the Focus RS at a pinch being AWD.. This sports/performance duty used to belong to the Falcon XR6 or XR8 last time I looked...

Mustang GT 306 Kw...XR6 was 325Kw...and XR8 was 345 Kw..... Focus RS 257 kw. Suppose the Ecoboost Mustang about the same..
Hopefully the 2018 Stang is going to offer a bit more grunt for those of us still wanting a new fast rear wheel drive Ford... Cheers Rod..

[Express]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day ,,Really !!!!!!!........Not in 1971 it wasn't..It was the fastest four door car on the entire planet...I believe 148 mph or near as dammit to 240 kmh was regularly achieved...On more recent Ford numbers...
So , the FG GTF Falcon had an actual top speed of 297 kmh " as tested "and was speed limited to 255 kmh otherwise ...and 4.6 seconds 0-100...not sure what the official 400 metres was but expect comfortably in the 12's... Generally regarded that the Sprints were actually quicker than the GTF with overboost though..
The W1 is speed limited to 250 kmh , as are all HSV's and a 'theoretical ' top speed of 293 kmh and supposedly 4.2 seconds 0-100...
Not saying that it's a bad car ...It's terrific .. What I am saying that double the price of a GT-F and almost three times the price of either of the Sprints you are paying a pretty big premium ( $80,000 -$110,000 ) more for the right to own one....An awful lot of money for a 3-4 tenths of a second quicker, to get to the national speed limit and a similar top speed in that regard..
Bigger brakes , better handling , fancy tyres a few extra goodies inside make up the bulk of the extra $100 K over a Sprint then...Yeah , money well spent...
All it really comes down to is bragging rights and exclusivity...Bottom line.....Cheers Rod...

I'm not talking about 1971 and I don't believe your original post was either.

As far as the rest of your comment goes it all depends on how you prefer to spend your money and what you feel makes a great performance car in this day and age.

Personally I like a bit more than just power alone.

Using a monetary figure just turns it into a bang for buck argument which isn't what this thread is about.


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[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Why do people consider the mustang as the Falcon replacement? Falcon was a four door family car.

Thete is no Falcon replacement other than maybe a mondeo.

I think people forget that point. Falcon, and Commodore, were/are family/fleet cars first, performance cars second.

I find it amazing that during the Tickford and early FPV years, high performance Falcons were considered to better rounded packages with a balance of power, traction, ride, handling and braking. They were criticised by the Ford fans for a lacking of outright power like Holden/HSV were dishing up. The tables turned with the F6 310 and Boss 5.0 and suddenly the Ford faithful sooked about a lack of traction, finesse and body control. Then FPV added R-Spec suspension and then the moaning about harsh ride followed. Seems we are hard to please......... What I'm getting at is that with the Falcon being a family car first, development money went into making it a road car for safe, practical and effortless everyday driver and not a track day special with brutal ride and questionable styling additions.

At the end of the day, who the hell cares. Its all over now.

[DFB FGXR6]

And to all the Holden happy clappers proclaiming Ford fans are "butt hurt" and that "at least they had the balls to do cars like the W1", well how has that worked out for them? Their market share has dropped like a stone and come October they will have NO performance offering in their line up for the faithful to slobber over. And yet Ford fans I can walk into a Ford dealership and buy Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS, Mustang EcoBoost or Mustang GT

[au2000]

I'm blue through n through but tbh this ****ing contest is well and truly over, ford went out with what it believed was the best it could do with it's limited and to a extent non supported parts bin and gave us some incredible vehicles in the miami and turbo barra,
Holden has done the same technically with the release of the director and bathurst SS , hsv on the other hand has given it's fans the best it can produce to say good bye to it's range.

In the end what was their motivation? Ford had none, the falcon nameplate is dead and they want to sell mustangs and rangers, Holden's motivation? To somehow keep the commodore legacy on it's up coming fwd and use that to sell some.

HSV's motivation? To go out with a blast cause only god knows what they will sell in October.

I'm just glad I have my fgx turbo and my fg Miami.. My pieces of history for my son, I just hope the holden fans all get to do the same , my mate has missed out, had to pass up his SS for a family holiday and he is already regretting it,

Who's got the ultimate performance car? All of us that could buy one.. We are the lucky ones here, no matter what the badge says

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

And to all the Holden happy clappers proclaiming Ford fans are "butt hurt" and that "at least they had the balls to do cars like the W1", well how has that worked out for them? Their market share has dropped like a stone and come October they will have NO performance offering in their line up for the faithful to slobber over. And yet Ford fans I can walk into a Ford dealership and buy Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS, Mustang EcoBoost or Mustang GT

2 stars and interior plastics???
lol couldn't resist.

[FoureverFord]

Question ? What happens to HSV now ? Will they fade out of existence or will we get wheel spinning Captivas ?

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by MethodX

2 stars and interior plastics???
lol couldn't resist.

Glad you did though...

Is this an interior worthy of the price tag? Still a lot of cheap plastics everywhere... Steering wheel, dash top, center console, parts of the door trim. Even the bits they tried to cover they went alcantera or some sort of suede instead of nice leather...

At that price point it should all be CF/leather IMO.

[Mercury Bullet]

Actually I think it looks better than the AMG with those ridiculous looking Ipad screens glued to the top of the dash.

Sooner the automotive world leaves those behind the better, they always look like last minute additions.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Actually I think it looks better than the AMG with those ridiculous looking Ipad screens glued to the top of the dash.

Sooner the automotive world leaves those behind the better, they always look like last minute additions.

Yeah I hate the modern screen placement of a lot of those cars, that's one thing the HSV has done right. Still doesn't change the lack of premium materials in a car with a pricetag that says it should have it.

Before anyone says "you're paying for the engine because they build it with an LSA" if that's the case why aren't they shipping the LSA engine they take out to the owners?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Actually I think it looks better than the AMG with those ridiculous looking Ipad screens glued to the top of the dash.

Sooner the automotive world leaves those behind the better, they always look like last minute additions.

Yeah nearly as bad a pod gauges...

But as the Ford dealer told me my FPV was built on the same line a taxi.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Yeah nearly as bad a pod gauges...

But as the Ford dealer told me my FPV was built on the same line a taxi.

As it should be. The donor car is a falcon is it not. Why wouldn't it be built on a falcon production line and then partly assembled at FPV in Campbellfield. That's where the POD gauges were installed I believe........along with the brakes, engine , bumpers and a whole host of other things.

I don't see a problem or stigma with any of that. IMHO the analogue POD gauge positioning is excellent on the B series. I love em.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Before anyone says "you're paying for the engine because they build it with an LSA" if that's the case why aren't they shipping the LSA engine they take out to the owners?

If that is true, I would imagine a not so special scenario of a dozen or so LSA engine, transmission, K Frame mules that will be dropped out on arrival at HSV and then make numerous trips back to GMH to be fitted in the next car. That's how I'd do it anyway.

Cheers Mick

[Grunter]

At least in the category for Australia's Best Looking Performance Car, it's a easy choice for me.

[arronm]

Best looking AUS performance car

[Express]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Actually I think it looks better than the AMG with those ridiculous looking Ipad screens glued to the top of the dash.

Sooner the automotive world leaves those behind the better, they always look like last minute additions.

And that BMW where the look of the interior hasn’t changed in almost 15 years.


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