Australia - China - Poltics

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

We had a fairly large (French owned) wool combing plant here which closed some years.

I read somewhere that China could scour wool for 28c a kilo, but here it cost $1.75.

All the while there is a cost difference like that Companies will always look for cheaper offshore alternatives.

But hey, we can still suck all the water from the Darling and the Murrumbidgee and grow the stuff.

Off topic, I know, but reminds me of the Lakes Entrance prawn fisherman who sends his produce overseas for processing. It is cheaper to fly the fresh caught produce overseas, have it processed and then returned than it is to process it here.

Or the Lakes Entrance fish and chip shop that used fresh local Co-op caught fish. Except that all the product was trucked to Melbourne before distribution (because it was more cost effective). Hence, it was then trucked back to Lakes Entrance to the retailer.

With the increasing focus on human impact on our environment, I think the time will come where a product discloses the amount of energy that has gone into providing a product on the shelf for the consumer. This will assist those who wish to reduce their footprint to make better informed decisions, not dissimilar to the food health ratings we currently have.

If/when this eventuates, the concept of sending items offshore for processing will become less palatable for the environmentally-conscious public, and I think this will drive the biggest turnaround in consumer behaviour.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I read somewhere that China could scour wool for 28c a kilo, but here it cost $1.75.

Except they can't, and it doesn't.

A few decades back, China effectively reinvented their entire economy, to make them more competitive and efficient. But we can't even fix the huge problems in our tax system.
Our problem is that for over 100 years we would periodically elect Labor governments who were obsessed with outdated socialist economic theories, and constantly increased the tax burden. Then we elect Liberal governments who say "thanks" and go and find new ways to spend the money.
We're now stuck with a tax system that is heavily punitive, and actually drives us to deliberately shrink our economy and become more inefficient.
And our constant political gridlock prevents us from fixing anything.

We all believe that "things" are too expensive in Australia, and for some reason both sides of government are happy for that lie to persist.
Yes, if you look at it from a "micro" point of view, it appears more expensive to have something done locally.
But not when taking a macro view.
Imagine if you will that you are bidding on a new contract (against a Chinese competitor) and the govt agrees that you can provide the service without paying taxes of any kind. Now also imagine that you could cut your wages bill because the new employees didn't have to pay taxes, then cut your supplies cost, then cut your wages bill further because your workers nolonger have to pay inflated living costs. Lastly take out all the costs driven by our inflated land prices. You would be highly competitive, you would have created jobs, and nobody would be worse off.

And if you think I'm talking nonsense, consider this. Having mined iron ore, and energy (say coal) it is apparently cheaper to ship them both to china, make the steel there (in a process that is NOT labour intensive) and then ship the steel back to Australia.
That is literally impossible, and yet it happens.

The first problem is that taxation.

The 2nd problem is that the Chinese government keeps selling their currency short, but the kicker is what they do with the other side.
We're actually getting hoodwinked.

Imagine this scenario:
The Reserve Bank of Australia starts selling off huge amounts of AUD on the foreign markets, this depresses the value and makes our exports more profitable.
This also cause the RBA to accumulate trillions of dollars in USD reserves.
This WOULD also make our imports very expensive, but the RBA then gives multiple Billions of those USD to BHP so they can buy foreign mines and take the produce cheaply,
The RBA also gives USD to companies like Qantas to buy their planes, and also gives massive interest free USD loans to private citizens so we can buy foreign real-estate.
Sounds Bizarre, illegal, unconstitutional, anti-free-trade, and just plain nuts? But thats EXACTLY what China does

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Except they can't, and it doesn't.

Probably the best post you have ever made, this from someone who grew up in the Perth northern suburbs of Balga/Nollamara and served in the Pilbara Iron Ore industry from the early 80's to the early 90's.......now working in the dying Offshore Oil & Gas industry off WA/NT......

[gooseneck]

People want quality they don't want to pay through the nose for it so we (me + the human race) will buy the cheap one then buy the quality item if the cheap one doesn't work.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

People want quality they don't want to pay through the nose for it so we (me + the human race) will buy the cheap one then buy the quality item if the cheap one doesn't work.

So it ends up costing you half the price again.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

So it ends up costing you half the price again.

My saying is the poor man pays twice!

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My saying is the poor man pays twice!

Spot on.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

People want quality they don't want to pay through the nose for it so we (me + the human race) will buy the cheap one then buy the quality item if the cheap one doesn't work.

Correct, this is more like it "you get what you pay for".....
Franco you can't beat the human race wanting less for more
2 good sayings one post.

Nature of the beast - back in the ol days "choice" was very limited.
Pre ebay etc things already picked up re Imports providing choice and the WWW brought it even more as we all make use of if desired.
Nothing wrong with that.
TBH back in the day of good ol Aussie made most of us complained what a rip off yet we all carry on about the quality, yer well thats all it came as lol.....
ALL of us like to pay less you incl when it suits and for some its all they can afford.
People behind the counter make judgement or mechanics on a consumers purchase BUT how do you know how deep or shallow their pockets are.
I get it, if your doing a job get it done right the first time but not all in the that position.
My pref is always for the better quality and today I can afford as such BUT I'm also wary of the end price depending its intended use and need to last.
All comes down to how long you wish an item/product to last, so today choice is a good thing imo depending your postion.

[Polyal]

I think an issue is also you can buy a top brand and the quality still not be there, its hard and depends on the application. most people dont have the forethought to say "if this fails what does it mean for me" at the time of purchase.

I suspect members on AFF are alike, research the living hell out of a product before buying and generally make informed choices.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think an issue is also you can buy a top brand and the quality still not be there, its hard and depends on the application. most people dont have the forethought to say "if this fails what does it mean for me" at the time of purchase.

I suspect members on AFF are alike, research the living hell out of a product before buying and generally make informed choices.

Yep. But the important thing is that people have a choice. I have bought plenty of much much cheaper items off ebay that have worked for just as long and functioned just as well.

Ever bought a dog toy from the $2 shops? Some of them last just as long (or short!) as a $40 toy from Petbarn!

But there is one thing my grand dad taught me to never cheap out on....and that's food.

[gooseneck]

Yep stuff from europe is notorius for this. Looks like its a quality product but won't last at all because its designed to fail, planned obsolescence. I actually really hate stuff from Europe. Its all eurotrash to me now. They're just as bad as China. Bosh brake pads, fuel pump, I'd trust those. Bosch Washing machines tho? nope. Nothing where plastic and tons of ICs are involved.

You can design planned obsolescence down to the microscopic scale weather its in a microchip or if its in the design of a water pump by using a slightly inferior rubber compound on the bearings.
Both the microchip and the water pump with the inferior rubber compound are completely and entirely indistinguishable from the thing that will last 10 times longer.

Allegedly Dayco did the same thing and got burned with their belts and had to start using EPDM rubber. And no Contitech is no better. And no just because its made in Germany doesn't mean its better quality, looking at you "Optibelt". https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/dayco-qa/

A slightly more obvious example is using a sleeve bearing in a fan instead of a ball bearing but people were buying sleeve bearings fans for computers for decades. Or using a smaller bearing so it doesn't support much weight in place of a larger bearing which takes less strain on something that calls for a larger bearing.

MOST OFTEN the techniques used are extremely obscure.

This is also why I decided to pop the cover off and repair the overflow hose on my Maytag washing machine from 1997 instead of going off like a goose and buying a new Bosch washing machine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YChHbz5VVoM "New washing machine, new washing machine, on finance! on finance! take advantage of me! I want to spend $2,000 on a washing machine to wash my $15 trakky dacks!"

As soon as I watched a few repair videos on them on Youtube I was completely disinterested in Bosch washing machines from then on out. This is a great way to find out if a product is rubbish by the way.

To be honest though if you want something that will last you the rest of your life you need to engineer and design and build it yourself. Its not that difficult to learn electronics and design your own PCBs and solder. No bean counter in a corporation will put in a TVS diode to save a circuit from overload. To them that just costs them more money.

[Franco Cozzo]

Good afternoon lads, this afternoon we're discussing CCP interference into our universities!

UNSW's decision to remove social media posts about the erosion of human rights in Hong Kong has attracted a warning from Education Minister Dan Tehan, who said universities should prize free speech as a pillar of Australian democracy.

The university was embroiled in controversy over the weekend when it deleted social media posts and altered an online article following an online protest from Chinese nationalists. The backlash was fuelled by a Sydney-based lawyer with links to the Chinese consulate, who called for students to launch a campaign against UNSW to correct the university's political views.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede....html#comments

The CCP has also established a new online portal that allows people to refer their compatriots to police for political crimes.

The portal, which is accessible in Australia, allows allegations to be made against dissidents for "attacking the party, the state system and major policies," endangering national security, harming the national image and slandering heroes.

Kevin Carrico, a senior lecturer at Monash University, said people of Chinese ethnicity at Australian universities deal with a "type of pressure that is just considerably more intimidating than anything your average student faces".

"I have had students who have had their families pressured simply because they did a presentation on the situation in Tibet or they discussed the historical events of 1989," he said.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...04-p55iht.html

China 'exporting CCP speech controls to Australia' as second university caught in row


The Chinese Communist Party is harnessing an online cyber policing portal, accessible in Australia, to increase its international influence, as it encourages Chinese internet users to dob in acts that undermine Beijing's image.

Australian universities have been engulfed in a fresh row over academic freedom after co-ordinated protests from nationalist Chinese students forced UNSW to take down social media posts critical of the Chinese Communist Party's actions in Hong Kong. UNSW vice-chancellor Ian Jacobs on Wednesday apologised for the decision, telling staff there was "no excuse for our failure in this instance" and the social media posts should never have been removed.

"I apologise for this mistake and reaffirm unequivocally our previous commitment to freedom of expression and academic freedom," he said.

A second Australian educational institution was embroiled in controversy on Wednesday after Charles Darwin University apologised following complaints from Chinese students. The students said an introduction to an assignment was racist after it stated that the coronavirus had originated in China.


The Chinese Communist Party is harnessing an online cyber policing portal, accessible in Australia, to increase its international influence, as it encourages Chinese internet users to dob in acts that undermine Beijing's image.

Australian universities have been engulfed in a fresh row over academic freedom after co-ordinated protests from nationalist Chinese students forced UNSW to take down social media posts critical of the Chinese Communist Party's actions in Hong Kong. UNSW vice-chancellor Ian Jacobs on Wednesday apologised for the decision, telling staff there was "no excuse for our failure in this instance" and the social media posts should never have been removed.

"I apologise for this mistake and reaffirm unequivocally our previous commitment to freedom of expression and academic freedom," he said.

The Chinese Communist Party's Cyberspace Administration portal has encouraged Chinese residents to report political crimes online.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/ch...05-p55irf.html

What an absolute joke, Chinese students encouraged to be good little communists here in Australia and report their own citizens to the CCP for speaking out against their government so their families back home get effected.

Our universities filtering information that the CCP may not approve of.

I reckon there should be a charter of universities that they have to follow if they want government funding, if they don't follow the charter then they don't get government funding and we can determine which ones are on CCP payroll that way.

This way you and your children can make the call on which university is on CCP payroll or not, the CCP ones can educate all the Chinese foreign nationals they want and the rest of us can go to the one that's not on Chinese government books.

[ad2013]

You won't get any argument from me Franco on what you say here, but with the universities I think it is a case of 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' and in this case it is China. I'm sure our federal government is under the same pressure, given it/us/we, like many universities, have solicited such a strong trade relationship with China. Unfortunately it appears in modern society $ generally (it seems?) speak more than ethics/morals/values; so as it is appears to be how it will stay(?)
As for Chinese students dobbing in others to the CCP, well would we really expect anything different? I can't see any problem, (apart from a bit of financial pain to the university sector and those who have taken economic advantage of Chinese students in Australia), in not accepting foreign students into Australian Universities from non-democratic countries, but I'm sure others won't agree. Oh wait, the CCP would object and impose more trade restrictions on Australia!

[Franco Cozzo]

It gets even better - UNSW publishes an apology letter in English and Chinese but the Chinese one leaves out all the important bits

UNSW criticised for letter in Chinese with no mention of freedom of speech
In contrast, letter in English on same issue said university had ‘unequivocal commitment to freedom of expression’

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...edom-of-speech

[T3rminator]

Don't worry folks, it's all under control. Check out the snazzy new layout of the cyber collaboration centre. Looks like they ran out of budget on mouse pads though?

On a serious note, if reports are accurate, unis will become less of a problem going forward. If things continue as they are, I'm predicting a mass exodus, perhaps a move towards online learning. Might be time to offload those student housing investments if you have one.

[Bossxr8]

Has there ever been a country as insecure as modern China? They are as insecure as your average 13 year old girl.

[Franco Cozzo]

ASIO joins Twitter!

ASIO joins Twitter with 'dad joke' about following citizens

Following in the footsteps of its secretive colleagues at the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), ASIO's Twitter debut came with a flourish of self-deprecating humour.

"Hi internet, ASIO here. I spy a new Twitter account," the organisation posted at precisely midday.

"We thought it would be fun if you followed us for a change."

ASIO's big reveal on Twitter coincides with a makeover for the agency, which has just launched a new logo and brand.

But it was unable to snap up the Twitter handle @ASIO, which already exists as a parody of the spy agency.

For the first time in more than 70 years, ASIO also has an official motto, Securing Australia — protecting its people, as well as a modern blue and green logo.

The organisation's director-general Mike Burgess is already an active Twitter user. He joined in 2014 and occasionally uses the social media platform to distribute official statements.

Mr Burgess said the agency's staff had submitted ideas for what the first tweet should be.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12565396?

The ASD also has an official Twitter account

Australian Signals Directorate comes out of the shadows with first ever tweet

One of Australia's most covert spy agencies has exposed itself to the mercy of social media with its very first tweet.

On Monday, an account claiming to belong to the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD) issued a cheeky post to begin life on Twitter.

"Hi internet, ASD here. Long time listener, first time caller."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...tweet/10445794

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

ASIO joins Twitter!



https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12565396?

The ASD also has an official Twitter account



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...tweet/10445794

Thank god that new logo will keep us all safe

[gooseneck]

Thought this was funny of news.com.au
https://www.news.com.au/technology/e...97fea3a989f966

Snow and wild weather will ease however chill winds to continue

NSW’s chilling weather is expected to ease on Sunday however high winds are expected to keep residents shivering.

August 23, 2020 8:37am

https://www.news.com.au/technology/e...9ff073c98700d0

Sydney, Melbourne weather: Burst of warmth to finish off winter

With the snow behind us, it’s likely to be a toasty end to winter with “record breaking” heat upping maximums by as much as 10C.

August 24, 2020 5:48pm

They are just as bad as old time religion fear mongering.

Their main page its just like a storefront, its like take your pick of what scares you the most and your brain's subcouncious clicks on it out of fear of not knowing "the truth" but the reality is that each article is designed from the ground up to trigger your fear reaction.

I know this and filter it out but to see them do it to the weather, that's funny.

[Mr_G6ET]

Not a good sign, this wont be good for Australia's economic recovery

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1199028.shtml

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Not a good sign, this wont be good for Australia's economic recovery

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1199028.shtml

I have to laugh about the talk about resolving disputes.

Apparently we can't get our Chinese counterparts on the phone to discuss anything if our ministers are to be believed and I tend to believe them given what we have heard and read.

How do you resolve things if both are speaking through the media? Regardless of whatever tensions there are you don't drop it cold as it appears has been done and keep it going behind closed doors.

Can you imagine an Aussie minister being able to turn up at the Chinese equivalent of the National Press Club (assuming there is one) and talk about how butthurt we are

[Raptor]

Don’t just read the headlines, but that articles doesn’t touch on many of the facts either.

Iron Ore exports to China from Australia were down because COVID shut down a lot of Chinese steel making, so they didn’t need as much Iron Ore or Coking Coal.

Iron Ore exports from Brazil to China were up (month on month) as Brazil has been out of the market following last years Environmental catastrophes and their production has also been hit hard by COVID. They are only now coming back into the export market.

That said, do I think our current Governments posturing with our largest trading partner is wise. Hell no.

Just shut the **** up ScoMo

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Don’t just read the headlines, but that articles doesn’t touch on many of the facts either.



Iron Ore exports to China from Australia were down because COVID shut down a lot of Chinese steel making, so they didn’t need as much Iron Ore or Coking Coal.



Iron Ore exports from Brazil to China were up (month on month) as Brazil has been out of the market following last years Environmental catastrophes and their production has also been hit hard by COVID. They are only now coming back into the export market.



That said, do I think our current Governments posturing with our largest trading partner is wise. Hell no.



Just shut the **** up ScoMo

Ore export to China in July hit an all time high I think. They are opening up in a big way, and environmentalists aren't happy because they are breaching the emission limits.

4 vlocs built with more to come, for only one reason.

This whole China relationship is like death by a thousand cuts. Slowly slowly... Maybe best just to cut all ties and get it over and done with.

[T3rminator]

China Iron Ore Imports Touch New High In July
https://www.sharecafe.com.au/2020/08...-high-in-july/

Sorry I read it wrong. The import was record high, may not directly correspond to our export hitting record high.

[gooseneck]

It got worse Raptor:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...a3b21a24ce2dda

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

It got worse Raptor:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...a3b21a24ce2dda

Don’t make that about China.

China has most deals at risk under new foreign interference powers

That’s about Australia’s need to get its own show in order and decide who the power sits with. Is it private/public enterprises such as companies or Universities, State Governments or only the Federal Government?

We stuffed up Federation, haven’t had the balls to become a Republic, and let the wealthy make their own rules. Is it any wonder no one knows who’s in charge .

I know, let’s blame those foreigners for interfering.
(Which could also be viewed as investing and injecting capital into our country/businesses/institutions)

You can’t blame the Chinese or anyone else just for trying to get a deal done.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Don’t make that about China.

China has most deals at risk under new foreign interference powers

That’s about Australia’s need to get its own show in order and decide who the power sits with. Is it private/public enterprises such as companies or Universities, State Governments or only the Federal Government?

We stuffed up Federation, haven’t had the balls to become a Republic, and let the wealthy make their own rules. Is it any wonder no one knows who’s in charge .

I know, let’s blame those foreigners for interfering.

You can’t blame the Chinese or anyone else just for trying to get a deal done.

I get what you're saying but I agree with this legislation on the face value.

The federal government sets foreign policy and the states should not be able to enter into any agreement, MOU, contract whatever you call it that is contradictory to that.

While we know this is most obviously more applicable to China than others, the laws apply to any country.

I have noticed that generally speaking we shy from naming China publicly even though we know what it is about. It's more the rowdy back benchers who do.

[T3rminator]

Interesting response from the ex WA premier. I wonder what other sitting premiers are thinking. What you can say will be very limited without getting hung by the opposition and the media.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...-laws/12601514

The bill has good intentions, but no way should such powers be granted to an a single minister. Does a defence minister have sufficient experience in business and trade to make a sound risk based decision? What checks and balances are there to stop "deals" being blocked for political gains?
Given that each decision could potentially have long lasting effects, and have huge ramifications on the future for certain industries, it should be done by a committee made up of bipartisan members. Not by an individual who might not be there in less than 4 years.

And if you really want to get serious, remove all foreign influence and funding from our foreign policy think tanks like ASPI and Lowy, which provides foreign strategic advice to the government, and which often end up with "deals" being made. Stop doing things half @ssed.

Victoria will certainly be the biggest loser, followed by WA, then maybe QLD. All Labor states. Maybe just coincidence.

It will be very interesting to hear what the justification for cancelling Vic's BRI MOU will be.....because in 2018......

The ABC's Sabra Lane asked her whether her visit was in any way related to a memorandum of understanding signed between the Andrews Government in Victoria and the People's Republic of China about China's Belt and Road initiative.

"Not in the least," the famously-careful Payne responded. "No, that's a matter for Victoria in that regard.

"We obviously seek opportunities to strengthen engagement with China on regional trade and infrastructure development projects, and that includes the BRI, where those align with international best practices," she said.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12606412

I wonder if they'll pick up the phone now

[George V]

There are many think tanks. institutes and other similar bodies attached to universities too; They do provide some very interesting observations and story lines to media. My observation is - They are more like very clever lobby groups in disguise; some funded by external governments, large corporations and even our own government.

When one here the same story over and over again from many sources, there is a tendency to believe it without realising it.

I sincerely hope there is a policy line looking after the best interest of Australia rather than towing the line; do not like the ""you are with us or against us" version.

Regards,
George V

[gooseneck]

I strongly recommend anyone following this thread to also watch this video:
https://youtu.be/GSfeZWvCeBY?t=471

As we all know an invasion of Taiwan is bad news as the US would be pressured to support their interests in the region. I wouldn't be surprised however if North Korea doesn't take advantage of such a situation. If that is the case then there is no reason why China couldn't also take advantage of the situation and invade Hong Kong to assert their dominance over their claims over HK.

The US then seeing this as a greater threat also support Hong Kong. Russia then seeing this as a threat to their interests sends troops to Hong Kong Taiwan and the Chinese border.

I doubt Japan would be given up easily.

The only thing preventing this would be the Covid-19 lockdown easing and all western economies globally recovering and relations with China improving over time. Hopefully Trump doesn't win again.

I don't see the Chinese man-made islands being of any threat to anyone, an artificial Tsunami from a water detonated nuke could probably wipe them off the map quite easily.