The greatest ever Australian performance car

[roddy1960]

And the point is ? The Ford 5.0 S/C engine gives overboost at optimum times is not good...Bloody hell it has 345kw anyway... So , why do you need transient overboost other than optimum times ..The bugger will rock most people's socks without it even before T/O kicks in...at a third of the price of the W1...The W1 is nice but it's not a $110,000 nicer..that's for bloody sure and certain...

[arronm]

Its not overboost, its just the rest of the time you get under boost. 345 MMMmmmm

[Nikked]

Looks like we are back to equating value with kilowatts...lets igbore dry sumps, thrust vectoring monster rubber etc.

[MITCHAY]

The definition of performance seems to differ quite a bit here.

[arronm]

performance = > 500 at the tyres..

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by arronm

performance = > 500 at the tyres..

With or without overboost ??? And is the torque vectoring engaged??? this thread

[Bayson]

If it's best performance car the hsv GTS-R W1 has it sewn up, it has the best hardware no doubt.

If it's bang for buck, a regular fgx xr8 or old fpv F6 wins hands down. FGX xr8 could be had for $55k drive away towards the end, the f6 was $54990 drive away with leather and sat Nav when it was being run out. Bargains both of them.

The sprints are no way worth $15k premium over the regular fgx xr8 nor is the GT-F worth the extra $25k. The W1 also not worth the $120k premium

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by smoo

BMW M5, 4.4 turbo V8, 575hp. With claimed combined fuel figures the same as an FG XT 4.0 (9.9l/100km). Using your logic the Miami is just as much a dinosaur?
The fact the HSV uses push rods is irrelevant.
You want to bang on about effiency then drop the ICE altogether.
One eyed Ford fans still clutching at straws because HSV had the balls to give Australian and Holden Muscle a worthy send off.
Some of the attempts to discredit HSVs effort in this thread are cringe worthy and prime example why some blokes shy away from the local bogan rivalry.

Nice try... a TWIN TURBO will always make more power than a blower setup.

And staying off boost will obviously get you good economy on the highway... my GT averages the same economy cruising at 110kph

People keep saying that pushrod's are fine in 2017... well why are GM and Chrysler the only carmakers still using them?... why did everyone else spend millions to develop DOHC instead?.. if pushrod engine's are so good, why is GM thinking about switching to DOHC ?

You can get a C63 S with it's less powerful 4.0L TT V8 for the same price and match the performance of the W1 everywhere...

The GT-R has less power than the W1 but is also quicker for around the same price.

As impressive as it is, the HSV is just an over-priced Aussie muscle car (ie the Camaro ZL1 has the same engine and is half the price of the W1)

[roddy1960]

G'day ,Listen to the HSV boss spruking the GTSR..http://www.motoring.com.au/official-...tsr-w1-105702/ ...
Then look at this...and bow and pay homage to the Almighty King....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZ4sxmQ6xU ...The rest are but princes in comparison....

This 170 K Commodore could one day be the big cheese but ever heard the phrase .".Rather have runs on the board"...or "Money in the bank "...
The GT and GTHO...46 years young as earned that right...Not quite yet for the GTSR for many of us methinks .. Cheers Rod...

[Bayson]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Nice try... a TWIN TURBO will always make more power than a blower setup.

And staying off boost will obviously get you good economy on the highway... my GT averages the same economy cruising at 110kph

People keep saying that pushrod's are fine in 2017... well why are GM and Chrysler the only carmakers still using them?... why did everyone else spend millions to develop DOHC instead?.. if pushrod engine's are so good, why is GM thinking about switching to DOHC ?

You can get a C63 S with it's less powerful 4.0L TT V8 for the same price and match the performance of the W1 everywhere...

The GT-R has less power than the W1 but is also quicker for around the same price.

As impressive as it is, the HSV is just an over-priced Aussie muscle car (ie the Camaro ZL1 has the same engine and is half the price of the W1)

Its true about the GTR and C63 being better than the w1 for similar money but the thread is asking about best ever aussie performance car.

[arronm]

[QUOTE=roddy1960;5931915]G'day ,Listen to the HSV boss spruking the GTSR..http://www.motoring.com.au/official-...tsr-w1-105702/ ...
Then look at this...and bow and pay homage to the Almighty King....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZ4sxmQ6xU ...The rest are but princes in comparison....

This 170 K Commodore could one day be the big cheese but ever heard the phrase .".Rather have runs on the board"...or "Money in the bank "...
The GT and GTHO...46 years young as earned that right...Not quite yet for the GTSR for many of us methinks .. Cheers Rod...[/QUOT

1972=high performance. 2017=low performance. Was great

[roddy1960]

[QUOTE=arronm;5931952]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day ,Listen to the HSV boss spruking the GTSR..http://www.motoring.com.au/official-...tsr-w1-105702/ ...
Then look at this...and bow and pay homage to the Almighty King....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZ4sxmQ6xU ...The rest are but princes in comparison....

This 170 K Commodore could one day be the big cheese but ever heard the phrase .".Rather have runs on the board"...or "Money in the bank "...
The GT and GTHO...46 years young as earned that right...Not quite yet for the GTSR for many of us methinks .. Cheers Rod...[/QUOT

1972=high performance. 2017=low performance. Was great

G'day. I'm afraid you're fundamentally wrong on 'was great" comment.....The GTHO will always be great....ALWAYS.....It is the only car yet built in this country that commands pretty much the universal respect of both blue and red tribes...Not saying that the W1 is garbage ..It isn't...bloody nice and a real weapon for sure but it may never command the same presence the GT/GTHO does...We'll see though in the next few decades won't we ?..Cheers Rod...

[mick74GT]

[QUOTE=roddy1960;5932054]

Originally Posted by arronm

G'day. I'm afraid you're fundamentally wrong on 'was great" comment.....The GTHO will always be great....ALWAYS.....It is the only car yet built in this country that commands pretty much the universal respect of both blue and red tribes...Not saying that the W1 is garbage ..It isn't...bloody nice and a real weapon for sure but it may never command the same presence the GT/GTHO does...We'll see though in the next few decades won't we ?..Cheers Rod...

Come on Rod I understand the nostalgia and I love the old cars as well but if we're talking best Australian performance car then I'm afraid nothing will come close to the W1.

My dirty old LS3 Maloo in terms of actual performance is in a different league compared to my XB GT. It's unfair to compare them.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by smoo

BMW M5, 4.4 turbo V8, 575hp. With claimed combined fuel figures the same as an FG XT 4.0 (9.9l/100km). Using your logic the Miami is just as much a dinosaur?
The fact the HSV uses push rods is irrelevant.
You want to bang on about effiency then drop the ICE altogether.
One eyed Ford fans still clutching at straws because HSV had the balls to give Australian and Holden Muscle a worthy send off.
Some of the attempts to discredit HSVs effort in this thread are cringe worthy and prime example why some blokes shy away from the local bogan rivalry.

Originally Posted by Bent8

Nice try... a TWIN TURBO will always make more power than a blower setup.

And staying off boost will obviously get you good economy on the highway... my GT averages the same economy cruising at 110kph

People keep saying that pushrod's are fine in 2017... well why are GM and Chrysler the only carmakers still using them?... why did everyone else spend millions to develop DOHC instead?.. if pushrod engine's are so good, why is GM thinking about switching to DOHC ?

You can get a C63 S with it's less powerful 4.0L TT V8 for the same price and match the performance of the W1 everywhere...

The GT-R has less power than the W1 but is also quicker for around the same price.

As impressive as it is, the HSV is just an over-priced Aussie muscle car (ie the Camaro ZL1 has the same engine and is half the price of the W1)

Hey! Smoo Smoo!
You've just been served.

[CyberWasp]

I am still questioning how a car with an American Crate Engine is an Australian Performance Car.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I am still questioning how a car with an American Crate Engine is an Australian Performance Car.

What's wrong with that. Nothing wrong with raiding the family parts bin.
Engines / trans / diffs. Ford and Holden have been "stealing" from their parents and fitting parts from overseas suppliers since time began......

Oh hang on , that's right. They are American owned companies anyways aren't they.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Bent8

You can get a C63 S with it's less powerful 4.0L TT V8 for the same price and match the performance of the W1 everywhere...

Maybe not .....
The turbo has made the car more difficult to drive , less progressive with more on or off characteristics. It also seems like it's a bit of a dog on the road.

http://www.motoring.com.au/abdc-merc...review-102308/

The W1 may yet have the last laugh.

[arronm]

AMERICAN 69 mustang. Bonnet scoop looks familiar.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

Hey! Smoo Smoo!
You've just been served.

Not really. You butt hurt blokes want to write rules to suit your arguement.
The three of those motors use different methods to achieve a similar result. The BMW is just a lot more efficient end of story.
If you're going to take the high horse on efficiency then the Miami is far from the benchmark to base your arguement on.

Chev and Chrysler have carried on with ohv because they had a decent base to start with and have successfully made it work... still kicking **** to this day.
Their days are numbered. Emissions and fuel economy requirements will kill them off along with all NA engines in favour of small capacity turbos.

End of the day if GM can make the ohv engine pass emissions requirements, and have it perform as good as the other offerings on the market then who cares. On paper stats mean eff all in the real world.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by smoo

Not really. You butt hurt blokes want to write rules to suit your arguement.

Gee! Smoo Smoo!
Is that the best insult you can come up with.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Maybe not .....
The turbo has made the car more difficult to drive , less progressive with more on or off characteristics. It also seems like it's a bit of a dog on the road.

http://www.motoring.com.au/abdc-merc...review-102308/

The W1 may yet have the last laugh.

As far as I’m concerned mine feels great on the road and I’ve also got the older model 204 C63 which I equally love to drive though it lacks a little power compared to the new one.

Looking at that list where the C63S came in at 9th on the list of ‘Australia’s Best Driver’s Car’ with the M2 leading the pack and the XR6 Sprint coming in at 13th all I can say is it all depends on what floats your boat.

Many members here increase the power of their cars over stock where traction becomes a bit iffy and they don’t complain, I like the fact you buy a C63 with that already built in but obviously the motoring journo’s didn’t.

Looking at the list there isn’t too many cars on it that I’d be disappointed in if someone threw me the keys regardless of the order Motoring has allocated them.

1. BMW M2
2. Porsche 911 Carrera
3. Audi RS3
4. Jaguar F-Type S AWD
5. Holden SS-V Redline
6. HSV Clubsport R8 LSA
7. Peugeot 308 GTi 270
8. Ford Mustang Fastback GT
9. Mercedes-AMG C63S
10. Mini John Cooper Works
11. Mazda MX-5 Roadster GT
12. Renault Clio RS220 Trophy
13. Ford Falcon XR6 Sprint


.

[Express]

Here’s what the informative rag Wheels had to say.

HSV GTS-R W1 misses performance claims


Wheels Magazine
Alex Inwood
21/04/2017




© Provided by Bauer Media Pty Ltd HSV GTS-R W1 misses performance claims


IT’S OFFICIAL: the HSV GTS-R W1 is the quickest Australian-made car Wheels has ever performance tested. But not by as much as we were expecting.

Australia’s most powerful and most expensive muscle car ran a 0-100km/h time of 4.5sec at a greasy Heathcote Dragway before charging to a quarter mile ET of 12.3sec @ 195.5km/h.

That just edges out our previous benchmark, an automatic HSV GTS that clocked 4.5sec to 100km/h and a 12.6sec 400m time at Sydney Dragway in October 2014 – times that were slower than HSV’s claimed figures by 0.1sec and 0.3sec respectively.

The fastest Aussie-made Ford Wheels has tested is an FPV GT R-Spec manual that managed 4.6sec and 12.6sec @ 189km/h at Sydney Dragway in 2012.

Still, despite nailing its name to the top of our timesheets, the W1’s numbers are a fair margin down on HSV’s claims.

Clayton’s engineers say the six-speed manual 474kW/815Nm LS9-powered W1 should clock a 4.2sec 0-100km/h and a 12.1sec quarter mile – numbers our test car couldn’t match despite repeated runs and various launch techniques.



© Provided by Bauer Media Pty Ltd HSV GTS-R W1 misses performance claims


At HSV’s request Wheels didn’t use the W1’s launch control assistance feature to get the big V8 sedan off the line, meaning it was up to us to mimic the system the old fashioned way. And despite a dry track and light winds, the W1’s aggressive rear rubber struggled to hook up on the un-prepped surface in cool temperatures.

In fact the W1 refused to bolt to 60km/h any quicker than the last manual HSV GTS we tested at Heathcote in near identical conditions, despite its 44kW/75Nm power and torque advantage and wider, stickier 295-section Pirelli Trofeo R rear rubber.


This doesn’t mean HSV’s performance claims are unachievable, however. HSV told Wheels the W1’s performance claims were achieved in perfect conditions with light fuel.



© Provided by Bauer Media Pty Ltd HSV GTS-R W1 misses performance claims


There is undoubtedly more time to be found in the W1, though our numbers add further weight to the argument that throwing more power and torque at a big, heavy rear-drive car doesn’t equal more off-the-line purchase in everyday scenarios.

Where the W1’s extra shove really flexes its muscles is when it comes to rolling acceleration. Our 80-120km/h times beat HSV’s claims by a hefty margin. At the W1’s track launch earlier this year, HSV told Wheels the W1 would rocket from 80-120km/h in 2.16sec (second gear), 2.96sec (third), 3.7sec (fourth) and 5.2sec (fifth).

At Heathcote we managed 2.0 (second) 2.7 (third) 3.4 (fourth) 5.0 (fifth).

Further putting the W1’s times into perspective is a 2017 Porsche 911 Turbo that Wheels also ran at Heathcote on the same day. Porsches almost always match or beat their claimed times but, surprisingly, the best the Turbo could manage was a 3.3sec to 100km/h and a 11.1sec @ 207.2km/h. Porsche says the Turbo should hit 100km/h in 3.0sec, meaning it missed its claim by exactly the same margin as the W1.


How Wheels performance tests

Wheels performance tests cars at a closed dragstrip and uses a device called a Driftbox to record times and speeds. There is often a discrepancy between numbers recorded on a Driftbox and those obtained on a prepped surface using the dragstrip’s timing system. To explain why, we had a chat with Street Machine’s Deputy Editor Scott Taylor, who has 25 years of drag racing experience.



© Provided by Bauer Media Pty Ltd


“It’s really hard to compare times done with a Driftbox against those run at the drag strip,” Scott says. “For example we took a 2015 VF GTS automatic on our Drag Challenge event where we run at five different drag strips in five days and the car ran consistent 12.1s; I’d expect the W1 to be significantly quicker.

“But that was on a prepared drag strip surfaces with fixed timing lights, physical cables and probably a foot of rollout – which means the car is already moving when the timers are activated. Driftbox uses GPS and g-forces to come up with a 0-400 metre time (versus 402.3m for a drag strip) and while the Driftbox is supposed to be accurate within 1%, the two systems are so different that there’s no possible way the times are going to be equal. This is why many people see a glaring discrepancy between magazine test times and ‘real world’ times run at their local drag strip.”



© Wheels Staff HSV GTS-R W1 misses performance claims


.

http://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/ne...ds0?ocid=ientp


.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I am still questioning how a car with an American Crate Engine is an Australian Performance Car.

Oh ffs.

Even the Phase 3 had an imported engine...

The car was designed here, built here and all the engineering work to fit it was done here.

Also...only sold here.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I am still questioning how a car with an American Crate Engine is an Australian Performance Car.

Because the car was designed and built in Australia, by Australians... So the engine comes from a ZR1 Corvette (Not the ZL1 Camaro as someone has stated - the LSA in the other HSV's has that engine) its still an Ozzie car...

It seems some people are just jealous that, unlike Ford/FPV, HSV has made an actual effort to send the Commodore off properly, with a properly world class Performance car...

**** and moan all you like, but the W1 IS the Greatest Ever Australian Performance Car....

[roddy1960]

[QUOTE=mick74GT;5932109]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Come on Rod I understand the nostalgia and I love the old cars as well but if we're talking best Australian performance car then I'm afraid nothing will come close to the W1.

My dirty old LS3 Maloo in terms of actual performance is in a different league compared to my XB GT. It's unfair to compare them.

G'day...I understand and totally get your point...It is unfair to compare era's especially on straight out performance..Technology puts an end to that...
What I base my point on is that the Phase 1-2 and 3 GT/GTHO's set the benchmark by which all future Australian performance cars were measured..
There is a genuine aura about a real deal Phase Falcon but especially the Phase 3..Many of the race cars , went almost literally straight from the dealerships and were soon after actually driven on public roads to race meetings , raced at 140 mph , and then driven home again In those days they had to be homologated to race with bugger all modifications from the showroom . Different now of course..These old birds were probably driven to work the next day by the privateers....See the great vid link I posted about the GTHO in this thread a few days ago...Then of course we had the car that started it all , the XR GT in 1967....
I think this thread is a bit too broad and to quantify the "greatest ever" Australian performance car is just to hard and too subjective to decide on..
Too many variables , too many choices to be fair to them all...
If it was ..The most" legendary" Australian performance car I think the 1971 XY GTHO Phase 3 would be on most AFF's number 1 spot..Cheers Rod..

[roddy1960]

G'day...I'll muddy the waters a bit more...a little off direct topic but just the same.....

If you had to choose one of these two cars :
1. A genuine 1971 XY GTHO Phase 3 Falcon in showroom condition .

like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkHSm0gBZLc
from a good while back A Current Affair story
OR...
2. A brand new 2017 GTSR W1 HSV Commodore..

I'm thinking that on nostalgic , financial value and investment, rarity and outright history the Ford would get the nod more often than the HSV...

The outright performance 1971 versus 2017 wouldn't even be considered for the HO , not that 0-100 in under 6 seconds and 140+ mph (230kmh). is slow by any means..

Do you agree or not... Cheers Rod...

[FoureverFord]

Quote"It seems some people are just jealous that, unlike Ford/FPV, HSV has made an actual effort to send the Commodore off properly, with a properly world class Performance car... "

I'm sorry big daz, but what a load of codswallop, all Holden is trying to do is make as much profit as they can out of the parts they have left, before saying goodbye. It's all about the mighty $, no matter what we think, otherwise Ford & Holden would still be building cars in Aussie. V8's have had their day, large 4 door sedans have had their day. I hear even V8 Supercars are changing to V6's soon. Actually I don't even understand the relevance of this category of racing anymore as these cars, supposedly Commodores & Falcons, don't exist anymore, their production has finished. When you think about it, Bathurst 2018, their will be no new Australian car in the Great Australian race.
It's SUV's now, cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, easier to drive & park. I do understand the passion of the Ford & Holden fans, I grew up on it, I remember watching Moffat the day he won Bathurst in the GTHO, I nearly screamed the house down, was a great day. But alas, those days are over, no longer is there an Austaralian car. I find it to be a very sad situation.

[arronm]

With component cost and small numbers they wouldnt be making much on each car.

There is no comparison between that car and any AUS Ford made. Ford made NO effort to put together a true all round performance car. It was always a bean counters special.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by arronm

With component cost and small numbers they wouldnt be making much on each car.

There is no comparison between that car and any AUS Ford made. Ford made NO effort to put together a true all round performance car. It was always a bean counters special.

So , Enlighten me ... Are you just talking about the final Sprints or over the whole 50 plus years of performance enhanced Fords in this country ?
If it's the latter , then what about some pretty nice and bloody well sorted out factory XR's , the GT's...etc... Then there were some pretty special Ford approved Tickford , FPV/Prodrive etc ..that don't go too bad...
If it's the Sprints , well bugger me , no money much to do to do anything huge. Everybody knows that...What they did do turned out to be a car that out performs it's replacement Mustang by any measure and was relatively affordable and way more affordable and available than the W1...
Cheers...Rod...

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Everybody knows that...What they did do turned out to be a car that out performs it's replacement Mustang by any measure and was relatively affordable and way more affordable and available than the W1...
Cheers...Rod...

Why do people consider the mustang as the Falcon replacement? Falcon was a four door family car.

Thete is no Falcon replacement other than maybe a mondeo.