HSV W427 vs other high powered V8 and turbo 6 cylinder sedans

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

I think Mr Walkingshaw was trying to improve on this car, but the Aussie authorities wouldn't allow it....He did bolt a S/C on one (or more) in England and do some testing...But it failed the Aussie ADR's and he wasn't prepared to make the necessary changes to get it to comply.

So he was trying to get the bigger improvement

agree, but to my understanding the turbo 6 didn't just beat the "born in the usa" and "dancing in the dark" cars, but also the "i'm on fire . . . oh wait, that is just exhaust smoke from factory" guys too

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by I8hsv

Has anyone actually taken the time to read all the specs on the w427 from front to back top to bottom the thing is pretty well set up I'd like to see how much change you would get from 155k setting up a standard gt f6 gs or hsv to compete on the same level as this thing that's including buying the care setting every thing up and keeping it road legal !

All you need to do is buy an E3 HSV GTS with the big brake package, go and get the diff gears shot-peened, and then stick a crate LS7 in.

Everything besides the actual motor and the diff gears made it into the next model HSV.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Uncle Tone

All you need to do is buy an E3 HSV GTS with the big brake package, go and get the diff gears shot-peened, and then stick a crate LS7 in.

Everything besides the actual motor and the diff gears made it into the next model HSV.

Just like you can make a Phase 3 GTHO by adding bits to a XY Falcon 500 6 cylinder column shift auto bench seat ex taxi..........

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

isn't a ford turbo 6 just a couple of tenths slower than the wd40 over the quarter
i mean, if the small block ls engines are that close to the 427 in acceleration then why did holden need to put a $23,000 engine in the wd40 to only go 1 tenth faster

This is pure ignorance. There is no comparison between a pukka 7-litre dry sump powerful N/A motor and a force fed engine modified from passenger car roots. Nobody in their right mind would choose a force fed engine over an equally well performing N/A engine.

It is like saying why did Ford bother bringing in a Coyote and supercharging it when the F6 they had already had developed cheaply and was a proven product just as fast as the Coyote; but used less fuel and with proven reliability...

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just like you can make a Phase 3 GTHO by adding bits to a XY Falcon 500 6 cylinder column shift auto bench seat ex taxi..........

Dunno if just sticking a 351 and a set of 9 inch diff gears in the std 6 cyl diff quite makes it an HO mate.....

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Uncle Tone

All you need to do is buy an E3 HSV GTS with the big brake package, go and get the diff gears shot-peened, and then stick a crate LS7 in.

Everything besides the actual motor and the diff gears made it into the next model HSV.

Lets see


$82,900 RRP GTS
$25 000 For a LS7
$2-3000 for the dry sump setup
$2000 for the interior
$600 for the OTR
$4000 for a Bi modal Exhaust
$3000 for a W427 bumper
$1000 Suspention
Emissions testing and engineering...say $2000.

Still $123 900, and you'll need someone to install it all, so add another $10 000 at least...$133 900...Im sure there are a few things forgotten aswell.

And you still don't have the uniqueness of the factory car, nor the warranty, nor the HSV servicing...


So, yeah...just chuck a LS7....it will be ok.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Uncle Tone

Dunno if just sticking a 351 and a set of 9 inch diff gears in the std 6 cyl diff quite makes it an HO mate.....

Nor does a LS7 in a GTS maketh a W427.

[mcnews]

Personally, there is no original Australian car that can hold a candle to the W427 as a total package, nothing remotely close. It is the best thing on four wheels ever built in this country from a major manufacturer.

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Lets see


$82,900 RRP GTS
$25 000 For a LS7
$2-3000 for the dry sump setup
$2000 for the interior
$600 for the OTR
$4000 for a Bi modal Exhaust
$3000 for a W427 bumper
$1000 Suspention
Emissions testing and engineering...say $2000.

Still $123 900, and you'll need someone to install it all, so add another $10 000 at least...$133 900...Im sure there are a few things forgotten aswell.

And you still don't have the uniqueness of the factory car, nor the warranty, nor the HSV servicing...


So, yeah...just chuck a LS7....it will be ok.

Not sure what the point of the shopping list was, but still, very funny. Thanks for the laugh!

Have a bit of a think about that price list mate, and get back to me with where you think you went wrong.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Personally, there is no original Australian car that can hold a candle to the W427 as a total package, nothing remotely close. It is the best thing on four wheels ever built in this country from a major manufacturer.

this.

all the counter productive chest beating and sooking/arrogance really mean nothing.

pure and simple no mainstream manufacturer in australia has yet produced anything that comes close to being as a total complete package.

you can make what you want with aftermarket bits, but it will never be the real thing.

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Nor does a LS7 in a GTS maketh a W427.

Taken on board. I should have phrased it better to get my point across.

Here's another go at it:

Just like you can make a Phase 3 GTHO by adding bits to a XY Falcon 500 6 cylinder column shift auto bench seat ex taxi..........

Just sticking in a 351 and a set of diff gears into the standard 6cyl diff doesn't mean that everything else in the car will magically turn into the same spec stuff as found in an HO. Unlike the W427 versus GTS comarison, there are a lot more things that are different running gear-wise.

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Have you even gone for a ride in a new GT?


Obviously not factory, do you have problems with the transport department driving on the road?

Does a 1965 twin supercharger AC COBRA have problems with transport????????
Does a 426 HEMI ROAD RUNNER DAYTONA have problems with
transport???????
I dont think so.All relates to year of manufacture of vechile


The car is factory...........
CUSTOM BUILT SPECIALLY CONSTRUCTED VECHILE.
No problems at all. Car is engineered has transport tag. And cat convertors TO KEEP THEM GREEN PUSSIES HAPPY
I wasnt built when euro 4 emissions were a requirement.
The engine has a volumetric efficency of 98%.

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

this.

all the counter productive chest beating and sooking/arrogance really mean nothing.

pure and simple no mainstream manufacturer in australia has yet produced anything that comes close to being as a total complete package.

you can make what you want with aftermarket bits, but it will never be the real thing.

All this is true, but I think the argument was (at least at the beginning) whether the price warrants it.

Since its very doubtful whether the W427 corners and brakes better than the upgraded brake packaged standard GTS (brakes are the same, as is suspension) then the argument goes back to whether just the motor upgrade is worth the premium.

[mcnews]

And how many laps did those last before the power steering pump spewed its fluid, and or the gearbox or diff broke without the coolers the W427 had...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Does a 1965 twin supercharger AC COBRA have problems with transport????????
Does a 426 HEMI ROAD RUNNER DAYTONA have problems with
transport???????
I dont think so.All relates to year of manufacture of vechile

Stop dodging the question, neither of those are the 5.9 litre engine you mentioned before.....
.


While it's fine to live in the past and revel in cars of a bygone era but this thread is about modern cars
and in particular, large capacity W427 versus another contemporary, the GT Falcon, so maybe
we can keep to the topic at hand and stop straying down memory lane....

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Stop dodging the question, neither of those are the 5.9 litre engine you mentioned before.....

It's fine to live in the past and revel in cas of a bygone era but this thread is about modern cars
and in particular, large capacity W427 versus another contemporary, the GT Falcon, so maybe
we can keep to the topic at hand and stop straying down memory lane....

Dodge the question?????????????
Copy and paste the whole post.Or read the whole post
Here it is again for you.

The car is factory...........
CUSTOM BUILT SPECIALLY CONSTRUCTED VECHILE.
No problems at all. Car is engineered has transport tag. And cat convertors TO KEEP THEM GREEN PUSSIES HAPPY
I wasnt built when euro 4 emissions were a requirement.
The engine has a volumetric efficency of 98%.

The topic does say HIGH POWERED V8.
Chill out bro

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Uncle Tone

All this is true, but I think the argument was (at least at the beginning) whether the price warrants it.

Since its very doubtful whether the W427 corners and brakes better than the upgraded brake packaged standard GTS (brakes are the same, as is suspension) then the argument goes back to whether just the motor upgrade is worth the premium.

Weren't the brakes and suspension both different in the 427 Tone (revised spring rates, rollbars, lower and revised MRC settings)?

Edit--> I see you mentioned the "upgraded brake packaged standard GTS".. wasn't that another $4k on top of the car price?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Dodge the question?????????????
Copy and paste the whole post.Or read the whole post
Here it is again for you.

The car is factory...........
CUSTOM BUILT SPECIALLY CONSTRUCTED VECHILE.
No problems at all. Car is engineered has transport tag. And cat convertors TO KEEP THEM GREEN PUSSIES HAPPY
I wasnt built when euro 4 emissions were a requirement.
The engine has a volumetric efficency of 98%.

The topic does say HIGH POWERED V8.
Chill out bro

Meh, OK...it's not life and death stuff....

I could care less about W427..and large capacity, they're yesterdays engines

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Uncle Tone

Not sure what the point of the shopping list was, but still, very funny. Thanks for the laugh!

Have a bit of a think about that price list mate, and get back to me with where you think you went wrong.

well...point it out...you seem to be the expert...


All prices plucked from the internet to upgrade the GTS to a W427 style car...

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by mcnews

This is pure ignorance. There is no comparison between a pukka 7-litre dry sump powerful N/A motor and a force fed engine modified from passenger car roots. Nobody in their right mind would choose a force fed engine over an equally well performing N/A engine.

It is like saying why did Ford bother bringing in a Coyote and supercharging it when the F6 they had already had developed cheaply and was a proven product just as fast as the Coyote; but used less fuel and with proven reliability...

the pure ignorance is you not caring about what my post was in relation to

if you have read my posts, you will see that i have at the very least alluded to the fact that i think the w427 is the best all round performance car australia has produced. it is as ugly as sin. it cost holden heaps, but nothing will keep up with it around a track and it is as close to a road going factory v8 supercar as you can get. but then you have read my posts, so you know that i already think that

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by Cashie

Weren't the brakes and suspension both different in the 427 Tone (revised spring rates, rollbars, lower and revised MRC settings)?

Edit--> I see you mentioned the "upgraded brake packaged standard GTS".. wasn't that another $4k on top of the car price?

Yep, that's right.

Suspension was used in the next GTS as I understand it. That's why they sit lower than the previous model.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mcnews

And how many laps did those last before the power steering pump spewed its fluid, and or the gearbox or diff broke without the coolers the W427 had...

HSV have been fitting power steering fluid coolers for years now. I think the VZ models were the last to puke fluid everywhere before they finally admitted a problem after denying it for years. So the VE was the first with the coolers?

Originally Posted by Cashie

Weren't the brakes and suspension both different in the 427 Tone (revised spring rates, rollbars, lower and revised MRC settings)?

Edit--> I see you mentioned the "upgraded brake packaged standard GTS".. wasn't that another $4k on top of the car price?

They definately starting using some of the W427 parts in the later GTS's, they definately did with the brakes. Suspension was an option, or fitted standard at one point, not sure about now?

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Lets see


$82,900 RRP GTS
$25 000 For a LS7
$2-3000 for the dry sump setup
$2000 for the interior
$600 for the OTR
$4000 for a Bi modal Exhaust
$3000 for a W427 bumper
$1000 Suspention
Emissions testing and engineering...say $2000.

Still $123 900, and you'll need someone to install it all, so add another $10 000 at least...$133 900...Im sure there are a few things forgotten aswell.

And you still don't have the uniqueness of the factory car, nor the warranty, nor the HSV servicing...


So, yeah...just chuck a LS7....it will be ok.

Your argument is flawed.

1. What about deducting all the stuff you could sell, does the ls3 and all the other stock e3 bits disappear?

2. Do you think Holden/hsv would pay full $rrp for all the bits you describe?

As uncle tone said most bits are on the current model anyway.

in my opinion just supercharge a e3 gts and it is better. Or supercharge a senator and you are way ahead.

[Angeldust]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

HSV have been fitting power steering fluid coolers for years now. I think the VZ models were the last to puke fluid everywhere before they finally admitted a problem after denying it for years. So the VE was the first with the coolers?


They definately starting using some of the W427 parts in the later GTS's, they definately did with the brakes. Suspension was an option, or fitted standard at one point, not sure about now?

my VZ hrt edition clubbie has an oil cooler for the power steering

[stazza]

This is honestly the gayest thread I've seen on here in a long time. Has anyone maybe com to the conclusion that it's mostly a matter of opinion ?

No matter what facts are presented people are still going to form their own opinion on what is the greatest built Aussie car.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Your argument is flawed.

1. What about deducting all the stuff you could sell, does the ls3 and all the other stock e3 bits disappear?

2. Do you think Holden/hsv would pay full $rrp for all the bits you describe?

As uncle tone said most bits are on the current model anyway.

in my opinion just supercharge a e3 gts and it is better. Or supercharge a senator and you are way ahead.

More drivel, put a blower on a GTS and it better
Bits might have filtered down to E3 but remember the W427 isn't new either.

[tex]

Not sure about gay, but I do get what you mean.

The drivel in this thread making reference to fitting a few parts to a GTS to maketh a W427 is about par for the course around here lately. It's about as intelligent as the rest of the posts from the people that have written it. Quite embarrassing really.

Then this "value" bollocks gets thrown back up again and again. And then again. Please. If you can't afford it, don't mean it's not worth it. Again, the usual suspect banging on about what something is worth. Tell you what most of his posts are worth. Nothing. Besides annoyance. They're not even funny, I used to think they were a little amusing, maybe posted in jest, or just to evoke a response. But me thinks they're serious, and that's really quite sad.

Let me remind the advocates of "value" one more time. Diminishing returns - remember that, it applies to every consumer product available today.

This thread would be good closed, infact, it should be deleted. It's a embarrassment on the wider FF community. People reading it must think the forum comprises schoolies with nothing to do. Maybe it is... Made up by schoolies.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Either way with a tune my F6 would walk away from the W427...

[RAPID_BA]

To say the "value" proposition is irrelevant doesnt make for much intelligence. I dont doubt its a nice car but it screams of poor value at $155k

HSV people drooled over the concept of the w427 (as I did too) but when it was released at $155k noone bought them due to the price. I just rolled my eyes when I heard the price. Those who "could afford it", they wanted a proper car like a Audi RS4, Mercedes c63, Skyline GTR, etc etc.

The argument to overcapitalise on a HSV or even a FPV just doesnt hold much water, never will.

Again, its a great car but even HSV die hards just cant digest it as a $75k car more than a regular E3 GTS??

[flappist]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_F6

Either way with a tune my F6 would walk away from the W427...

Yep sure would.....at every traffic light and maccas car park.

See how you go in something that involves corners, braking and extended high speed operation (more than 12 seconds) say 50 laps of QR or Lakeside......