Should volunteer firefighters get paid?

[Cav]

I shifted from Tumut two years ago


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-...ation/11837622

[GasoLane]

Whilst the current fire situation is in everyone's thoughts perhaps another thread could be started regarding that and this one kept on topic. ...'Should volunteer firefighters get paid?'

[snap0964]

I guess on Tues when the fires were bearing down on me at home, I should've got out there and demonstrated with a placard - maybe they might have stopped ?
I guess now with the greens infiltrating councils (declaring 'climate emergencies', rather than focusing on rates, rubbish and roads,etc), and Labor at most levels depending on their preferences in areas to win seats, you won't see them waiver too far from those type of policies.
AFAIK in QLD, it's against the law to back burn around your own property (someone confirm or not?).
Also in QLD if you feed your starving stock mulga off your own property, you can be taken to court and charged.
With this type of Lunacy, and you also scale back RFS and Parks and Wildlife resources and funding, it does seem a recipe for disaster.
A lot of the economies seem dire as well - QLD is in debt AFAIK, NT is a disaster - they have asked Federally for money, Federally, we've been in debt for over 30 yrs.
Maybe politicians should be held responsible for economic mismanagement, e.g. Wayne Swan got to retire with a nice pension, after promising 4 surpluses, and delivering none. I wonder if a Business CEO would last as long with that track record.
The Government voted against giving diary farmers decent pay for milk - you have to wonder what the National Party stands for these days. Once the farming industry disappears - it's gone. Maybe the Chinese are waiting to move in, just like the Baby formula industry?
MP's got nice new Comcare vehicles - BMW's and Toyota Hybrids, whilst Farmers struggle on with little help.
You have to wonder how well we are spending the taxpayers dollars.
Assisted payments for Firies shouldn't be that hard - if we review some of the unnecessary spending in other areas, e.g. refinancing our all up debt to reduce our interest bill - after all individuals can do it ?

EDIT: Apologies for the off topic areas.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Loonar

Roddy, i hope your border collie pulls through o.k.

Thanks , very kind ...She's pretty immobilised this morning as the mast cell tumor the vet suspects it is was on her rear leg has a lot of stitches so they could take a big margin and I have to take her back on Tuesday for stitch removal of a special wad they had to put in and get the results of the pathology etc in case further treatment is required...Trying to keep a Border Collie really quiet for 7-10 days while it heals ain't going to be easy but that's what has to happen...Thanks again..

On the thread , like Gasolane said ...I'll just stick to the actual topic now and leave the ancillary comments alone .. Causes too much strife ..sorry if I get a bit over the top.

Forgetting then blaming politicians for the fires for anything they have or haven't done and forgetting this current situation there still must be a case IMO for a form of remuneration or offset for firefighters , ambo's , SES, lifeguards if that's the case with them . I guess though a certain level of proficiency and training and/or age would need to be attained first with documentation to back that up . Like I said before even if it was a tax offset from their taxable income or adjustment to pension if they are retired from full time work as some are.

It's out of my brain power to work it all out but there has to be some way that the pollies , the public , the firey's and other similar responders can find an agreeable way to compensate them better than now. As we find out every time there are events like now , these guys are crucial to many folk still having a roof over their head or even being alive because of their efforts.

Definitely think it's about time some sort of worthwhile compensation for them is warranted .. .

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The problem with using the current fires as an example is you have a sample size of one - you've got a solitary incident and then trying to use the exception as the rule, suddenly every future fire is going to be on the scale of this one.

Yes its unprecedented to have a fire on this scale, but its also an outlier, if this starts happening every year then yes, we've got serious problems.

As per earlier in this thread we're suddenly forgetting the protests over backburning so that they can't go ahead, drovers being locked out of forests, these all contribute to bush fire management, to mitigate risks.

But no we're all going to point fingers at lazy politicians - yes politicians suck but you (collectively) also put them there.

Where does personal responsibility come into it, you want to live out in the woods in a remote area then the risk of that is bush fires - where you are relying on isolated volunteers with old equipment.

Why is the solution taxing everyone else? Why not putting levies or increasing rates on people who live in risky areas - user pays system? Why doesn't the community fund their own equipment and fire fighters?

The problem with increasing GST is it disproportionately effects people on lower incomes - a GST hike hurts the people on the lower end of the scale much more than those in the middle and at the upper echelons, its not fair on them.

User pays - you want to live in the boonies then you fund it, or the building regulations are retrospective as per Mr Festiva raised, you should have your own large water storage, fire fighting pumps and sprinkler systems on your own home and attend yearly bush fire management refresher courses, give you the tools and the knowledge to defend your most important asset.

The Government has a serious revenue problem, we dig things out of the ground and sell it to China and swap overinflated houses among ourselves and the Government capitalises on the capital gains taxes and stamp duties - thats it., we have no major industries other than mining, tourism and educating foreign students.

It cannot afford to provide the funding required to have a good level of firefighters being compensated in national disasters - you can make a choice, do you want to pick between government funded health care and pharmaceuticals or do you want more paid fire fighters across the nation?

So, since you're insisting on the government paying for this, what industry are you going to grow to increase revenue?

You're trying to address the problem at the end result - bushfire, it shouldn't get to this stage.

We should be addressing the problem at forest management level BEFORE it turns into a national disaster on a huge scale.

VIC and NSW already subsidise most of the country as it is, Melbourne and Sydney have huge economies and 40% of our entire population live in these two cities alone, SA and TAS take more money than they generate in GST:

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...1d81f9d00b2460

So we raise the GST to defend rural communities but Melbourne and Sydney foots the bill again?

Before you start throwing money around we don't have you can address why a huge percentage of youth go through university in Adelaide, then end up living and working in Melbourne or Sydney because the lack of work back home which is a shame.

Franco, remember Melbourne and Sydney have had their share of disasters. Fire, flood, hail storms, earthquake (Newcastle 1989) and everyone bands together to help.

[Tassie f100]

Franco,You will find there is a lot of crap going on in Melb & Sydney but because they have big populations most people never hear about.Big city people also have this me me attitude whereas smaller places are much more considerate of their neighbours

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Franco,You will find there is a lot of crap going on in Melb & Sydney but because they have big populations most people never hear about.Big city people also have this me me attitude whereas smaller places are much more considerate of their neighbours

Melbourne and Sydney have huge issues, because of lack of infrastructure investment over the past 25 years for their massively growing population and ever spreading suburbs - Melbourne CBD smells like urine and there's homeless people everywhere.

I live on the regional outskirts of Melbourne, I saw one of my neighbors for the first time in 20 years a few weeks ago, none of the 6 houses in the immediate vicinity talk to each other and thats the way I prefer it.

[roKWiz]

Sydney spent a fortune over the last few years pulling down perfectly good public buildings and replacing them simple because it was fashionable, Barangaroo, Darling harbour are trendy money pits, latest is they want to tear the Eastern side of DH down and redevelop it, meanwhile volunteer FF are public fund raising to buy masks.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Cav

I shifted from Tumut two years ago


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-...ation/11837622

We were through that way earlier this year. At least I got to see the Sugar Pines in Laurel Hill before they were burnt out....

[cs123]

The company I work for has leave entitlements for volunteer firefighters, so when they have to go off and fight fires then they still get paid.

I think for longer duration emergencies like this where the volunteer firefighters are taken away from their jobs for a long time then there will be hardship for them and the community should do something about supporting them, banks should hold mortgage payments, utility companies should waive or defer bills, governments should offer some support. The public should donate.

[Crazy Dazz]

This may be greatly over-simplifying things, but it seems to me that many of these fires are burning through National Parks, State Forrests, Reserves, etc, etc.
(And then of course spreading onto private property and wreaking terrible destruction.)

Those massive reserves are the responsibility of the government.
Their budget should include adequate provisions for maintenance, prevention, and fire-fighting.
So yes, when they are called upond to work for the government, tending fires on government land, fire-fighters should be paid.
Clearly the governments have been negligent.
If they cannot afford to maintain them all, then maybe they need to be transformed, with bigger tracts of cleared land to act as fire breaks??
Or at the very least improve the availability of water.

I'm all for preserving nature and habitats, but they don't get preserved when they all burn out of control.

NB: My Son-in-Law is currently engaged trying to defend his parents property in southern NSW, which suffers because they are part of an enclave surrounded on all sides by unmanaged State Forrest. The fire has burnt through, but there are still spot fires everywhere.

[roddy1960]

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sto...ffer/?cs=14264... On our local news this was confirmed as now happening last night .

I reckon that this will be a good thing for these guys over time .

stay safe today everyone in various areas around our country that might face hazardous fire conditions ...

Just been outside here and our nearest fire at Fingal/ Tower Hill / Mangana is leaving that acrid smell of burnt bush and a thick smoke haze but it's pretty much contained now as we speak .

Cops announced they've found out it was deliberately lit and have likely suspects in the frame .Also on the news. ..Most others in Tassie though are from dry lightning strikes . I hope they get the mongrel and if I had my way I'd make part of his sentence doing 500 community service hours (unpaid of course) with the local firey's to see what it causes .

[Tassie f100]

I agree with you Roddy about this waste of space getting his? due,but I don,t know how other firies would feel with the culprit within their ranks.Strong punishment needs to be meted out but some of our limp wristed judiciary will hand out a bag of lollies and tell them to be good in future

[ute83]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Cops announced they've found out it was deliberately lit and have likely suspects in the frame .Also on the news. ..Most others in Tassie though are from dry lightning strikes . I hope they get the mongrel and if I had my way I'd make part of his sentence doing 500 community service hours (unpaid of course) with the local firey's to see what it causes .

WHAT........
These sub humans need to pay for the cost of their destruction. If need be for the rest of their lives. These fires would cost enormous amounts of money and other loss. And if they ever decided to do it again they should have a parachute strapped to them and chucked out above the middle of their handiwork.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I agree with you Roddy about this waste of space getting his? due,but I don,t know how other firies would feel with the culprit within their ranks.Strong punishment needs to be meted out but some of our limp wristed judiciary will hand out a bag of lollies and tell them to be good in future

....Yep, thanks...won't happen of course but he/she needs serious re education if and when caught and charged and maybe by having to scrub down fire appliances , do some of the mundane crappy boring tasks the crews have to do around the station etc as a part of their sentence.. might start idiots like him or her back to respecting what these people do . Trouble is few of these habitual arsonists that the suspect could well be according to the news report (13 fire incidents in that locality in recent times ) will never appreciate and learn . Come on Tasmania Police , nail the mongrel ..

Bad enough that fires start via nature , accidents or carelessness of campsites and such with no intent , understandable or even forgivable to varying degrees but for some cruel moron knowingly doing it ..WTF .

[snap0964]

IIRC there are around 12 people waiting to be dealt with all the fires just a few months ago, and yes the punishment won't match the crime.

Recently, a firey was caught allegedly.

In NSW at least over the last 20 yrs, 85% of fires have had some human intervention, be it deliberate, accidental (backburns might be in there), and suspicious.
So, yes, it is a big factor.

[roddy1960]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mUBhCG2kls...

Seven News on New Years Day ...Horrific circumstances in so many places in mainland Australia ... really concerning here in Tassie..thankfully due to the work of the TFS rural volunteers things are as we speak currently under control ..unless something has altered in the past hour or two.

[Crazy Dazz]

Many people in Perth bitched about the smoke in late Winter and early spring.
Can only hope they will STFU next year.

I know it doesn't help pointing fingers during times of crisis, but governments need to wake up and implement proper management.
I hate to say it, but heading into extra hot summer after prolonged drought, Blind Fekking Freddy could see this coming.
It's like we have learnt nothing.
This IS the natural state of Australia during these conditions. Either we get back to proper management, or we give up and all go live in the middle of the desert where there's not as much to burn. When are people going to learn that The Green's infantile "hands off" policies do not result in rainbows and unicorns.

[GasoLane]

Can we please keep to the topic. If you insist on rambling on about who's to blame or what should be done to help prevent a recurrence there is a solution available to you.

Start. Another. Thread.

[roddy1960]

It won't be much longer if it's not already before this massive fire event becomes Australia's greatest natural disaster and that's saying something given Cyclone Tracy , Cyclone Yasi , several other major cyclones , many shocking bushfires across one or two states that devastated areas over a few days or basically one massively terrible day like Black Saturday in 2009 in Victoria that no-one will ever forget .

Then of course incredibly destructive rain/flood events at various times . With no real end in sight , with authorities warning that mega fires from current fires joining up a genuine threat and with the full on summer still to come the humanitarian , fauna , flora , infrastructure and health outcomes are likely to be as bad as it could get for so many .

These firey's , emergency services , essential services , wildlife protection agencies , agricultural and heath providers are going to be stretched to the limit .

Some of those who have spoken up so far have said it was like being in a war zone .

As a few here have quite rightly IMO have said , we're partly paying the price for not having proper fire preparedness mitigation in relation to bush management practices and listening too much to a bunch of whingers when back burning is advertised ".Oh no it might affect breathing or my other health concerns" or " Can't do that it might affect a bird breeding or take out a midden or something " ..I wonder how some of these people feel now then . As for the bloody Greens ...they really have no idea and Richard De Natale and his meddling mob can go and get stuffed as far as I'm concerned...for the same reasons .

Maybe they should sling a few bob in to the kitty to pay a few of our exhausted firey's ...and come back to parliament with a more simple and better attitude to preventative measures , that is if we have a country left to protect ..

These volunteer guys and girls on the fire trucks deserve every cent the State governments or Federal or whatever get or any assistance they end up receiving . I think that we'd never have our money better spent .

That's it from me moderators on this subject ...Had too much to say and too angry and sad to go any more on this thread .. Thanks ..

[Itsme]

I believe volunteer fire fighters should not be paid except in extraordinary circumstances like the present fire season where members have been on the front line for a long period of time fighting fires, they should be allowed to access centrelink for hardship benefits if need to be.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

I believe volunteer fire fighters should not be paid except in extraordinary circumstances like the present fire season where members have been on the front line for a long period of time fighting fires, they should be allowed to access centrelink for hardship benefits if need to be.

It's not so much 'being paid', it's being reimbursed for losses. The announcement made, in a nutshell, only allows reimbursement to come in to effect after at least ten days of responding to fires within a season.

Just to add another dimension to this - I was part of a standby strike team for East Gippsland over the weekend, and to act as a skeleton crew for anything happening in the neighbourhood. Role - Crew Leader for a tanker with a crew of 4, as their driver and Lieutenant. Incidentally we were called out to a local fire (small) but this was unrelated to what's in the media. We ultimately got stood down earlier today as the rain hit thankfully. I spent my weekend with a bag of gear at the door waiting for a callout and limiting what I did socially.

Did I get paid or reimbursed for the weekend? No, but it's no skin off my nose financially as I was not rostered on at work. But imagine a casual employee or a Newstart recipient being asked to be 'on standby' when doing so may cost them weekend rates or a job interview. Or in my case a few days ago I was asked the exact same question by my Captain but I was rostered on and as such had to decline as work quite rightly would not release me to merely be 'on standby' despite the armageddon that was occurring in East Gippsland.

There's so much more that volunteer firies do than attend fires.

[Franco Cozzo]

With Newstart recipients the problem isn't the Federal Government, it's the lack of flexibility from the 'job agencies' the government contracts out to.

You don't get to your meeting to sign paperwork to say you attended your paperwork signing farce meeting then your payments get cut - end of story.

Bushfires can wait mentality - you're a volunteer fire fighter fighting bushfires? You aren't on Tuesday at 2PM you're signing paperwork to say you attended this meeting so we get paid.

They don't care about helping people they get paid by the government by getting you in to sign paperwork.

[Yellow_Festiva]

I hope to apply to volunteer for the RFS / SES this year considering I'm able bodied and my place as well as my parents place back onto scrub / National Park and both properties have had close shaves with fires.

The money is irrelevant but seeing as I'm pretty much working for myself and doing the odd casual teaching day it will help if I'm off helping with the fires and unable to work.

Perhaps it will be enough incentive for more people to put their names down?

[roKWiz]

Now that dunny paper is so important and we have forgotten about all the great work the Aussie first responders did during the fire season. I thought I would post this here.

Talking to the neighbour of where I'm working in Wodonga today.
As a volunteer with the CFA and Albury based air water bombing squad he was off to Sydney this morning to join a cruise on the latest Royal Carribean Ship for a free 4 day voyage up and down the coast donated by the cruise company.
Apparently the Spectrum of the Seas built for cruises around Asia has not left Australian waters due to the virus problems and will be donating 4 cruises.
Some good news I think.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Now that dunny paper is so important and we have forgotten about all the great work the Aussie first responders did during the fire season. I thought I would post this here.

Talking to the neighbour of where I'm working in Wodonga today.
As a volunteer with the CFA and Albury based air water bombing squad he was off to Sydney this morning to join a cruise on the latest Royal Carribean Ship for a free 4 day voyage up and down the coast donated by the cruise company.
Apparently the Spectrum of the Seas built for cruises around Asia has not left Australian waters due to the virus problems and will be donating 4 cruises.
Some good news I think.

Good to see. Although I hate the seppo term 'first responders', I still prefer to call them Emergency services

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Good to see. Although I hate the seppo term 'first responders', I still prefer to call them Emergency services

Yep, Gaso, me too. Surprised he was the one who called himself that.