All things Solar (merged threads) - Page 57

comagutsa · 20-02-2013, 03:02 AM

they need to make it a 1 to 1 and then people would get on board ...even myself if i knew how bad the 8.4c was going to be in WA and how little i save during the day coz no one is home, i wouldn't of put solar on my roof as its going to take 10 years or so to pay it off...which is too long when you think that technology will be so more advanced by then

but on a good note, after solar has been hooked up correctly i got 17.86units today for my 1st full day since being fixed

xisled · 20-02-2013, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stagg

Have to remember though that 7-8c per kWh is the wholesale rate of power, and since FiT all over Oz were put in place, they were all going to disappear in a few years anyway, the whole industry knew of this and it sure isn't going to get better, nor will it really get worse. We do know however that electricity prices will continue to rise.

What I come across almost on an everyday basis, is that the customer says "There would be a lot more incentive to go for solar if there was still 66c FiT". Truth is of course there would be more incentive to do so, but regardless of 66c or 8c, you are still saving a huge amount of money over the life of a system, the total payback subjective to every households electricity habits may make a very small difference in payback period with todays tariffs compared to those tariffs of a few years ago. The fact that the market has gone completely quiet here in VIC just tells us that everyone believes that there is no payback for solar at all.

I mean, really, it still has a payback period. There are very few investments you can make for your home that have a payback, surely solar should still be seen as attractive because there is still so much benefit from going solar?

If people must know I was told a few new insights into the industry at the moment, that because Solar has become so affordable as of this year, the STC multiplier may be dropping earlier than June 30 (to a 1x multiplier), or potentially even lower. Which means if solar seems unattractive at the moment, it sure isn't going to be getting any better.

It really is an industry that due to huge incentives in the past, it is seen as no longer attractive with the current incentives in place. But it isn't going to get better. The earlier everyone decides to go solar, the better off they will be. Sure they won't have it as good as someone who bought a system two years ago, but you'll sure as anything be better off than someone who buys a system two years from now.

And yes because of how quiet is has become, we have been inundated with people whose jobs have been made redundant in the industry, and I potentially may no longer have a job by the end of the week :( I just wish that people really believed in solar like I do and see that it really is worthwhile

I disagree that solar has slowed down, I work in the retail side of things, here in Vic. I bascially run the solar department for one of the power retailers here in Vic. I still get about 20 requests (EWR) a day. The amount of paperwork I get has not dropped off it has been consitant for months now. The September 30 cut off made no difference.

In NSW the Gov buy back rate is 0 cents. Most retailers do not give anything back.

The 1 for 1 was dropped as of the 31/12/2012 here in Vic. So I do not think we will see that back again.

Winter XR8 · 20-02-2013, 03:09 PM

How can they get away with not paying anything for power you are putting back into the grid for them to sell off. Thats robbery.

Stagg · 20-02-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter XR8

How can they get away with not paying anything for power you are putting back into the grid for them to sell off. Thats robbery.

People are still using a lot of power and relying less on retailers regardless of the credit from exporting power.

However, you can always go off grid

deesun · 20-02-2013, 03:30 PM

Anyone know how much TVS are charging for this system? http://www.truevaluesolar.com.au/pro...tinum-package/

SPArKy_Dave · 20-02-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

Anyone know how much TVS are charging for this system? http://www.truevaluesolar.com.au/pro...tinum-package/

Depends which state your in.
The price will vary depending on the number of STC/REC's that are claimable for a given solar installation.

eg, as a rough gauge atm in Victoria, we're installing premium 5kw solar systems for approx $8,700 - $9,300 after the STC/REC's discounts.

That's using an SMA 5000TL inverter, and Trina Honey or Suntech solar panels. (single storey tiled roof house.)

Budget orientated sytems are usually a grand or two cheaper.

xxx000 · 20-02-2013, 04:58 PM

would love to go solar, a major supporter of the concept, but one major thing stopping us is the appearance

our panels would be directly facing the street and at this stage we wouldn't be happy with that look.

I believe that roofing material containing subtle inbuilt solar panels is available or coming soon. Think we'll wait for that happen then sign up.

rancidpunx · 20-02-2013, 05:17 PM

I jumped on board as soon as I heard that QLD were reducing the FIT. I did not even own or live in the house when we signed up let alone knowing anything about solar. I had to convince the real estate agent that I would take on the power bill for the property so that I could sign up. Could have all gone pear shaped but I am glad I did. Timing worked out just right. We have had the system since Nov 26th and went live to the grid a week later. Currently the Inverter reads $900 generated based on 44c FIT and 6c from supplier. Pretty happy with that.

poppa smurf · 20-02-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

I jumped on board as soon as I heard that QLD were reducing the FIT. I did not even own or live in the house when we signed up let alone knowing anything about solar. I had to convince the real estate agent that I would take on the power bill for the property so that I could sign up. Could have all gone pear shaped but I am glad I did. Timing worked out just right. We have had the system since Nov 26th and went live to the grid a week later. Currently the Inverter reads $900 generated based on 44c FIT and 6c from supplier. Pretty happy with that.

big gamble.....glad it paid off for you!

poppa smurf · 20-02-2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus880

would love to go solar, a major supporter of the concept, but one major thing stopping us is the appearance

our panels would be directly facing the street and at this stage we wouldn't be happy with that look.

I believe that roofing material containing subtle inbuilt solar panels is available or coming soon. Think we'll wait for that happen then sign up.

I didn't want the panels on the house roof either so I was glad they all fitted on the shed after a bit of juggling

big things regarding power generation in the pipeline, the only drawback is the guvments leaning toward continuing the profits of the generators at the cost of those of us who want to change the status quo

Stagg · 20-02-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus880

would love to go solar, a major supporter of the concept, but one major thing stopping us is the appearance

our panels would be directly facing the street and at this stage we wouldn't be happy with that look.

I believe that roofing material containing subtle inbuilt solar panels is available or coming soon. Think we'll wait for that happen then sign up.

They are available in Australia now, they're just hard to come by but definitely are here

Same with laminate-on solar panels (for flat installs on factory roofs etc), and also BIPV (Building Integrated PV) such as solar PV windows, greenhouses etc

These are products that are already here also. As for me, I'm waiting and waiting for the spray/paint on solar cells to get here, I read about spray on solar cells in 2010 and have been waiting since!

xisled · 21-02-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

I jumped on board as soon as I heard that QLD were reducing the FIT. I did not even own or live in the house when we signed up let alone knowing anything about solar. I had to convince the real estate agent that I would take on the power bill for the property so that I could sign up. Could have all gone pear shaped but I am glad I did. Timing worked out just right. We have had the system since Nov 26th and went live to the grid a week later. Currently the Inverter reads $900 generated based on 44c FIT and 6c from supplier. Pretty happy with that.

You cannot work out your rebate from the inverter. You need to read the meter to work out what your rebate is.

The reason I say this. Your house will use a big chunk of the solar generated, you get paid for the excess not the total amount solar produced.

Your meter reads the excess amount back into the grid, your inverter reads the total solar produced.

I have had arguments with so many people over bills due to this. People get small system that have 1.5kw worth of panels. TVS is the worst for this, advertise on the TV. On the add they say you get a 5kw inverter make it sound like a massive system then they quickly go over the amount of panels and in the small print at the bottom of the add, says you get 1.6kw of panels. 8 x 200 watt panels.

Customer use the inverter to work out how much solar, when they get the bill they get $10 credit, they then call up and argue saying they should get more because there inverter has produced x amount. They do not take into account that the house has used the solar power.

xisled · 21-02-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter XR8

How can they get away with not paying anything for power you are putting back into the grid for them to sell off. Thats robbery.

The whole reason for the solar scheme is not for people to make an income off the solar panels. So many people have it in their head they the can make a second income from solar, and they get angry when they find out it is not true.

The scheme was introduced to reduce peoples power bills that is. The PFIT scheme (66 cent buy back) in Victoria, cost the state Gov over 20 million dollars a year. Since then there is another 2 schemes which also cost the state Gov.

Stagg · 21-02-2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

The whole reason for the solar scheme is not for people to make an income off the solar panels. So many people have it in their head they the can make a second income from solar, and they get angry when they find out it is not true.

The scheme was introduced to reduce peoples power bills that is. The PFIT scheme (66 cent buy back) in Victoria, cost the state Gov over 20 million dollars a year. Since then there is another 2 schemes which also cost the state Gov.

Interestingly enough, the 66c FiT was less of an incentive, and more of an experiment for the state government. There was a total installed kW limit on the 66c as opposed to a time cutoff, as the total amount of kW contributed to the grid was just enough to product brown-outs in summer, on those peak periods with a lot of appliances running. It was win-win i.e. people would get solar, and electricity distributors would not have to upgrade their power lines.

Ever since Solar has had a FiT, we all knew it was going to drop to 8c, in fact I always said to customers that they should buy systems and tell their friends to buy systems before the 8c kicks in, and still only a few ever did. The 25c FiT in VIC was an interim tariff, only in place for 12 months as it was seen that a drop of 66c to 8c would be too large of a hit for the industry. Originally it was going to drop straight from 66c to 8c but lobbyists got the upper hand on the politicians.

All in all the 66c was never set as an industry standard it was only ever a short term incentive to save distributors the cost of upgrades and the 8c was always the standard for wholesale cost of electricity, and always has been. No one really should have the mindset that the 66c should still apply as it really is never going to be that good again.

Also bear in mind that once those previous tariffs are cut, everyone who is on a previous tariff is going to have their tariffs dropped to whatever the wholesale rate of power will be in a four years time here in VIC, and that is a definite.

poppa smurf · 21-02-2013, 01:39 PM

my FIT, well the subsidy paid by my energy retailer, increased on my last account after dropping from the previous......I had a phone call from Origin offering a larger FIT plus discounts on the whole bill and a huge discount off a SHW system......trying to compete

xisled · 21-02-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stagg

Interestingly enough, the 66c FiT was less of an incentive, and more of an experiment for the state government. There was a total installed kW limit on the 66c as opposed to a time cutoff, as the total amount of kW contributed to the grid was just enough to product brown-outs in summer, on those peak periods with a lot of appliances running. It was win-win i.e. people would get solar, and electricity distributors would not have to upgrade their power lines.

Ever since Solar has had a FiT, we all knew it was going to drop to 8c, in fact I always said to customers that they should buy systems and tell their friends to buy systems before the 8c kicks in, and still only a few ever did. The 25c FiT in VIC was an interim tariff, only in place for 12 months as it was seen that a drop of 66c to 8c would be too large of a hit for the industry. Originally it was going to drop straight from 66c to 8c but lobbyists got the upper hand on the politicians.

All in all the 66c was never set as an industry standard it was only ever a short term incentive to save distributors the cost of upgrades and the 8c was always the standard for wholesale cost of electricity, and always has been. No one really should have the mindset that the 66c should still apply as it really is never going to be that good again.

Also bear in mind that once those previous tariffs are cut, everyone who is on a previous tariff is going to have their tariffs dropped to whatever the wholesale rate of power will be in a four years time here in VIC, and that is a definite.

That is true, but the PFIT scheme is locked in to 2024. This year the Gov will review the scheme again before September, so I think the 89 cents will not be around much longer in Vic.

ute83 · 21-02-2013, 09:59 PM

The pfit in Victoria is 60 cents, I don't know where you blokes get the 66 cent figure from.

Winter XR8 · 22-02-2013, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

The whole reason for the solar scheme is not for people to make an income off the solar panels. So many people have it in their head they the can make a second income from solar, and they get angry when they find out it is not true.

The scheme was introduced to reduce peoples power bills that is. The PFIT scheme (66 cent buy back) in Victoria, cost the state Gov over 20 million dollars a year. Since then there is another 2 schemes which also cost the state Gov.

I get the 8.4c buy back and I got my solar knowing it would not be giving me a second income but slightly reducing my power bills. If someone is receiving 0c buy back then how will having solar benefit them at all? You make your solar power during the day when you are at work, not at night whilst you are at home using it.

xisled · 22-02-2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter XR8

I get the 8.4c buy back and I got my solar knowing it would not be giving me a second income but slightly reducing my power bills. If someone is receiving 0c buy back then how will having solar benefit them at all? You make your solar power during the day when you are at work, not at night whilst you are at home using it.

The solar reduces the amount of power your buying from the power grid, Reducing your bill. When you look at it this way. if you are using all your solar power you are saving more than 8 cents. Every KW you do not buy from the grid, is less money on your bill. Average KW price from the Grid is around 25 cents.

When working out a system, you should work out what is going to cover your usage during the day and then some. The buyback should just be used as a bonus.

xisled · 22-02-2013, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute83

The pfit in Victoria is 60 cents, I don't know where you blokes get the 66 cent figure from.

It is 60 cents plus 6 cents GST. You should be getting 66 cents back.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/energy/env...tariff-schemes

rancidpunx · 22-02-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

You cannot work out your rebate from the inverter. You need to read the meter to work out what your rebate is.

The reason I say this. Your house will use a big chunk of the solar generated, you get paid for the excess not the total amount solar produced.

Your meter reads the excess amount back into the grid, your inverter reads the total solar produced.

I have had arguments with so many people over bills due to this. People get small system that have 1.5kw worth of panels. TVS is the worst for this, advertise on the TV. On the add they say you get a 5kw inverter make it sound like a massive system then they quickly go over the amount of panels and in the small print at the bottom of the add, says you get 1.6kw of panels. 8 x 200 watt panels.

Customer use the inverter to work out how much solar, when they get the bill they get $10 credit, they then call up and argue saying they should get more because there inverter has produced x amount. They do not take into account that the house has used the solar power.

I know that. Thats why I wrote that the INVERTER is showing a generated amount. I wrote nothing about bills. However I have still generated $900 whether I see a cash value or not. Power that is used up by the house before hitting the grid I would have been paying for before the install. Technically this power is costing me twice the energy companies rate so I lose a chunk of generated revenue. Then any excess after grid consumption and system loses will be applied as a credit. It all works out in the end.

poppa smurf · 22-02-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

I know that. Thats why I wrote that the INVERTER is showing a generated amount. I wrote nothing about bills. However I have still generated $900 whether I see a cash value or not. Power that is used up by the house before hitting the grid I would have been paying for before the install and any excess after grid consumption and system loses will be applied as a credit.

correct and this is one area that is forgotten by a lot of folks when the question of FIT prices are mentioned

the amount of power that is deducted from your usage must also be taken into account, this can be significant, mine is around 4 kilowatts per day

mik · 22-02-2013, 12:31 PM

Howdy gents, just a solar question if i may?
is there any limit how far you can have panels from the the meter ? i see in an earlier post Poppa i think? mentioned he had panels on the shed, my house roof is one of those old weird tiled roofs with many sides/angles, i was told it would be suitable for 1.5 kw set up.
We have a corrugated iron roofed large 2 car garage(flattish roof about 5 degree down angle towards north side) about 12 metres away from the meter (front of the house) as the crow flies diagonally across the main house roof , the garage length wise runs east west.
My thinking is we could do better than a 1.5 kw system on the main house.

ute83 · 22-02-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

It is 60 cents plus 6 cents GST. You should be getting 66 cents back.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/energy/env...tariff-schemes

Please tell me where it says anything about GST in there. As far as i am aware there is no gst payable. In saying that the 60 cents is a minimum the retailer must pay you.

poppa smurf · 22-02-2013, 12:37 PM

I was told by the sparky doing the install that the inverter and panels had to be on the same structure

I chose the shed which involved a new fuse box, inverter install and extra purlins for the roof

I then have 6 mm elec cable running from the shed fuse box to an upgraded power box (household supply) attached to the house, this is roughly 30 feet from the shed

your shed placement would be good for your solar install, I'm not a fan of on house roof installs but I realise some dont have a choice

poppa smurf · 22-02-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute83

Please tell me where it says anything about GST in there.

GST is on the account and is applicable to either infeed or out feed tariffs, 10% of whatever it is

I would scan and place an account, if I could find one, that definitely shows where the GST is added

mik · 22-02-2013, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I was told by the sparky doing the install that the inverter and panels had to be on the same structure

I chose the shed which involved a new fuse box, inverter install and extra purlins for the roof

I then have 6 mm elec cable running from the shed fuse box to an upgraded power box (household supply) attached to the house, this is roughly 30 feet from the shed

your shed placement would be good for your solar install, I'm not a fan of on house roof installs but I realise some dont have a choice

thank`s Poppa smurf.

davenl5l · 23-02-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

thank`s Poppa smurf.

check on your state reg's as it could be a case of the solar system must be on the roof of the building with the meter i have heard of people losing FIT over this issue!

MNM96 · 24-02-2013, 09:32 PM

My Solar Journey.

So, early in this thread, I was a heavier poster, until I saw some issues creeping in. I decided to pull back until I copuld add some data which I was confident was correct. Here today, we have had a 5kw system fitted for about 10 months.

The start.
My employer had a desire to add value to their employees without it costing them anything, or very little. They negotiated with a Solar Retailer a very good price, which was reliant upon 150 people taking up the offer. Over 1000 people did. So, I signed up for a 5kw system for $7990, which was about $5k less than retail at the time. At the time I didn't know anything at all, not even which way the panels had to go on the roof. I disliked the idea of them being visable from the streetfront, and would have knocked them back if they had to.
My system was installed on 18 April, and was wired to my house on the 20th. At this time, the power generated was simply turning the meter backwards, effectively just paying back what I had used. Next bill, about 1 month later, was sub $20.

Next step, was for the electricity retailer to come and upgrade my meter, to a smartmeter. This would allow the FIT to come along, and allow me to earn .44c per kw fed in. This occured about 2 weeks through the bill cycle, and not long after, the hot water packed it in. Sparky came and replaced the thermostat and heater coil, and billed me $200. Made no difference, so they returned a few days later and told me the Whipple?? Meter, which switched the tarrif for the hot water system. Apparently, this sparky had found fault with 30 of them in 6 weeks. So, he wired it up to draw full power, as required. Ergon finally fixed it about a week before the next meter read. Bill comes, $170. I am gutted!

Sit waiting thru the next bill cycle, worried that I have got stiffed all along. I did the maths prior to committing, and worked out I should be produce double what I use. Frustrated!
Anyhow, bill comes in. Has been a lot of overcat days through Jan and Feb, so I wasn't sure what to expect. Add to that a teenage daughter with an Air Cond. in her ""Cave"" and at least 1, sometimes2 other ac's going most days, I figured, given the run I had enjoyed since install I was hoping for a break even result. Power produced, nearly $1000, power used, $340 odd, credit, $651.

Over the moon. Power gen was as I expected when I started.

My advice to anyone. Look into it and ensure you know what you are getting into, don't go halfarsed like me.
Oh, and I thank Poppa Smurf. He doesn't claim to be the all knowing, all seeing guru of Solar, but offers very good, solid advice. Cheers Mate, I, and many others, appreciate your input.

deesun · 25-02-2013, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNM96

My Solar Journey.

So, early in this thread, I was a heavier poster, until I saw some issues creeping in. I decided to pull back until I copuld add some data which I was confident was correct. Here today, we have had a 5kw system fitted for about 10 months.

The start.
My employer had a desire to add value to their employees without it costing them anything, or very little. They negotiated with a Solar Retailer a very good price, which was reliant upon 150 people taking up the offer. Over 1000 people did. So, I signed up for a 5kw system for $7990, which was about $5k less than retail at the time. At the time I didn't know anything at all, not even which way the panels had to go on the roof. I disliked the idea of them being visable from the streetfront, and would have knocked them back if they had to.
My system was installed on 18 April, and was wired to my house on the 20th. At this time, the power generated was simply turning the meter backwards, effectively just paying back what I had used. Next bill, about 1 month later, was sub $20.

Next step, was for the electricity retailer to come and upgrade my meter, to a smartmeter. This would allow the FIT to come along, and allow me to earn .44c per kw fed in. This occured about 2 weeks through the bill cycle, and not long after, the hot water packed it in. Sparky came and replaced the thermostat and heater coil, and billed me $200. Made no difference, so they returned a few days later and told me the Whipple?? Meter, which switched the tarrif for the hot water system. Apparently, this sparky had found fault with 30 of them in 6 weeks. So, he wired it up to draw full power, as required. Ergon finally fixed it about a week before the next meter read. Bill comes, $170. I am gutted!

Sit waiting thru the next bill cycle, worried that I have got stiffed all along. I did the maths prior to committing, and worked out I should be produce double what I use. Frustrated!
Anyhow, bill comes in. Has been a lot of overcat days through Jan and Feb, so I wasn't sure what to expect. Add to that a teenage daughter with an Air Cond. in her ""Cave"" and at least 1, sometimes2 other ac's going most days, I figured, given the run I had enjoyed since install I was hoping for a break even result. Power produced, nearly $1000, power used, $340 odd, credit, $651.

Over the moon. Power gen was as I expected when I started.

My advice to anyone. Look into it and ensure you know what you are getting into, don't go halfarsed like me.
Oh, and I thank Poppa Smurf. He doesn't claim to be the all knowing, all seeing guru of Solar, but offers very good, solid advice. Cheers Mate, I, and many others, appreciate your input.

Great result for you and what a very good price for your system. Shame about the false start but onwards and upwards from here. Now the only power struggle will be whos account the cheque goes into, lol.