VFACTS June 2009

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Agreed. If they were going to release it any time soon they'd need to have mules out and about all over the place right now.

Not to mention roughly $150-$200 Million to cover R&D, tooling and engineering costs, which is money that FoA doesn't have right now.

Could it be just a top-hat redesign? just whack a new body on the old LWB platform.

They will also save heaps in economies of scale and a simplified production line when they start using FG parts. Remember at the moment, they have to stamp different bodies, different interiors, install different transmissions, engines, etc for the FG sedans compared to the BF wagons...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Crazed

Could it be just a top-hat redesign? just whack a new body on the old LWB platform.

They will also save heaps in economies of scale and a simplified production line when they start using FG parts. Remember at the moment, they have to stamp different bodies, different interiors, install different transmissions, engines, etc for the FG sedans compared to the BF wagons...

I can't see that being much cheaper.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Crazed

Could it be just a top-hat redesign? just whack a new body on the old LWB platform.

They will also save heaps in economies of scale and a simplified production line when they start using FG parts. Remember at the moment, they have to stamp different bodies, different interiors, install different transmissions, engines, etc for the FG sedans compared to the BF wagons...

Won't happen....

I think the wagon's day's are numbered.

When sales increase over the next 12 months on Sedan and especially Territory, I think the wagon will be killed off in preparation for Focus.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Crazed

Could it be just a top-hat redesign? just whack a new body on the old LWB platform.

They will also save heaps in economies of scale and a simplified production line when they start using FG parts. Remember at the moment, they have to stamp different bodies, different interiors, install different transmissions, engines, etc for the FG sedans compared to the BF wagons...

It would still require a large R&D investment to develop, and to add the FG's front end architecture to the car. It would still cost a fair bit.

I recall back before the BA days, when talk of a 'redesigned' AU first started filtering out, the question was raised as to whether or not the AV as it was termed would have new doors. The answer was no, that it would carry through with the AU doors and passenger cell because doors cost around $50 Million each to develop from scratch. In 2001 dollars. So I'm told.

So consider that you'd need 2 doors that would be unique to the wagon to be developed, and that would account for $100 Million by themselves, if what I was told is correct.

And yes, I think the wagon's days are numbered. Come Euro 4 cut off next year, it will be gone.

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It would still require a large R&D investment to develop, and to add the FG's front end architecture to the car. It would still cost a fair bit.
So consider that you'd need 2 doors that would be unique to the wagon to be developed, and that would account for $100 Million by themselves, if what I was told is correct.

And yes, I think the wagon's days are numbered. Come Euro 4 cut off next year, it will be gone.

Back in those days, the window frame and door were one pressing. On the FG the window frame and door pressing are seperate, so you would only need to change the window frame to suit the wagon - which would be relativley inexpensive.

If you look at the rear doors of the FG (ignoring the window frame) you can tell that they have been desgined to fit a wagon, look at the beltline - it stays pretty horizontal which suits the longer glasshouse of a wagon, this is especially noticeable as many modern cars have a high raising beltline - like a wedge.
Also look at the way the rear doors dont really curve into rear quarter panel, the door stay straight, which suits the longer squarer rear section of a wagon... this also explains how the area where the rear door meets the c pillar and rear quarter panel looks a little awkward on the sedan.

But in the end, the Falcons and Commodores arnt selling in the volumes they use to, so maybe the wagon days are numbered. But the fact that a car with a 11 year old body, 4 speed auto, no trim and engine options and retails for almost 42 grand can still sell up to 400 a month says there is a market. Add in the fact its closest competitor sold 1715 units last month also shows that the market is there.

As the market looks more for practicality and products which are lifestyle orientated, I can see wagons becoming more relavent than sedans. Heck, last month nearly 40% of Commodores sold were wagons.

Maybe Ford is onto something though, aim the Territory at one spectrum and the Mondeo wagon at another, and let the Falcon wagon wither away.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Crazed

Back in those days, the window frame and door were one pressing. On the FG the window frame and door pressing are seperate, so you would only need to change the window frame to suit the wagon - which would be relativley inexpensive.

If you look at the rear doors of the FG (ignoring the window frame) you can tell that they have been desgined to fit a wagon, look at the beltline - it stays pretty horizontal which suits the longer glasshouse of a wagon, this is especially noticeable as many modern cars have a high raising beltline - like a wedge.
Also look at the way the rear doors dont really curve into rear quarter panel, the door stay straight, which suits the longer squarer rear section of a wagon... this also explains how the area where the rear door meets the c pillar and rear quarter panel looks a little awkward on the sedan.

But in the end, the Falcons and Commodores arnt selling in the volumes they use to, so maybe the wagon days are numbered. But the fact that a car with a 11 year old body, 4 speed auto, no trim and engine options and retails for almost 42 grand can still sell up to 400 a month says there is a market. Add in the fact its closest competitor sold 1715 units last month also shows that the market is there.

As the market looks more for practicality and products which are lifestyle orientated, I can see wagons becoming more relavent than sedans. Heck, last month nearly 40% of Commodores sold were wagons.

Maybe Ford is onto something though, aim the Territory at one spectrum and the Mondeo wagon at another, and let the Falcon wagon wither away.

You're infatuated with wagons aren't you!!
The Falcon wagon sells for a host of different reasons than the commodore hatch does. They are dynamically "different" types of vehicles, catering to different markets.
Add the Territory sales to the Falcon sales and compare them with the commodore sales for a better understanding of that broader market.
The commodore hatch sells to people not really wanting a wagon, but the extra space is handy.
This is why i think that there maybe some rationalization in the commodore ranks.... the sedan and hatch are so similar its hard to justify having both across the entire range... and as we've seen the hatch hasnt really meant any increase in total sales to holden.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by CarPoint

In June, one in four Commodores and Statesmans sold was a V8. Last year, the average was one in five. That is, of the 6570 Commodore sedans, wagons, utes and Statesman and Caprice models sold in June, 1682 were V8s.

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/lar...ve-years-15729

Does anyone know what the split between Falcon I6 / I6T & V8 sales was for June? It’d be really interesting to see how it compares with GMH’s result. I know that the new V8 next year is likely to result in a drop in I6T sales, but overall it may have the potential to increase sales more than a new Wagon variant.

[vztrt]

China is the highest selling car country now.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-n...0710-df2n.html

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by vztrt

China is the highest selling car country now.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-n...0710-df2n.html

Rightly so, they are the country with the largest population in the world.
How long before the Western world starts crying about the Chinese using up all the worlds oil and pushing up demand and prices etc.?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by puts99

Rightly so, they are the country with the largest population in the world.
How long before the Western world starts crying about the Chinese using up all the worlds oil and pushing up demand and prices etc.?

We would have to go back in time.

[XR8putts]

Heh good point. Perhaps I should've have asked when the cries will get louder.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by puts99

Heh good point. Perhaps I should've have asked when the cries will get louder.

Probably about 1.60 a litre. lol