Will the Holden brand survive?

[sr71]

Will the GM & Chevrolet brands survive? That's the next question
Profit is profit, however small a percentage RHD was making.

Porsche timed it well, reintroducing the 6 cyl into the 718. GTS model though, with a detuned version out of GT4/Spyder.
Factory RHD Corvette would have been great. Apparently Chevrolet are losing money on 2020 C8 Corvettes, selling at US$60k. Punters over there are hanging out for the Wide body Z06/Race version. Maybe they should commit to the Stingray, before the whole C8 program is shut down.

Gotta feel for the loyal Holden fans/owners right now. Resale values will surley take a dive, as a percentage of potential buyers decide against buying late models, still with warranty. Or even concern about capable mechanics.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Which comments..wasn't this your own:

btw..I do agree Holden outmarketed it's competitors when they sold locally built product and it wasn't always the "best in class"....still a sad day more because I'm in the manufacturing industry and it's been a slow death...

The part where Fordies care about Holden's extinction.

Yes, that was my comment and in reality it is fact, its not rubbishing them, just pointing out that GM used the Holden branding to sell their inferior products to people who we're easily fooled.
I didn't want to see them go though, Holden has been part of the social fabric of my neighbourhood from birth, it is an icon I never thought i'd see go under in my lifetime and something many of us from the north of Adelaide just took for granted in reality, however, I shed my tears with my production line mates when the announcement was made, although the media is desperate to have one last tug on the heart strings over this recent decision, that horse has bolted for the people who cared for the cars.

For the record, from a purely mechanical point of view there is only one Holden product built in this country which i'd take over the Ford equivalent and that would be a VL Commodore in i6 form for obvious reasons as the rest are nowhere near as good, but when looks are considered i'd favour a HQ over an XA, a HZ over an XC, and a VT over an AU, that's it.

[Crazy Dazz]

I must admit that I am a little surprised by this.
It just goes to show how momentously inept their management has been, that the Holden brand, once the most Iconic in Australia, is worth nothing.

What I didn't realise until recently, was that in selling Opel, they also sold Vauxhall, so SE Asia and Australia were their last RHD Markets. I don't know what they sold their products as in Asia? GM I guess? I never saw that many.

So I guess once they decided to bail on RHD that was the end for Australia.

I wonder if somebody will buy the brand? Try to make some money selling rebadged Gheelys or somesuch?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I must admit that I am a little surprised by this.
It just goes to show how momentously inept their management has been, that the Holden brand, once the most Iconic in Australia, is worth nothing.

Why?

Without a local manufacturing division building Australia's own car, its just a name, it has no soul and its identity was taken from it in 2017.

[Bossxr8]

Writing was on the wall when they pulled out of Europe. With very few RHD markets to sell to, especially after they bailed on South Africa and India, this decision was inevitable in hindsight.

They could never justify the costs of making certain models in RHD to sell only in Thailand, Australia and NZ. The sales failures of Acadia and Equinox made certain of that. GM spent millions making RHD versions that sold poorly here. Would have made their decision to not do any more RHD models pretty easy.

Luckily Ford still sells in all the major RHD markets.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why?

Without a local manufacturing division building Australia's own car, its just a name, it has no soul and its identity was taken from it in 2017.

Sounds like what the Chinese are doing with MG.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by prydey

while everyone likes to point fingers and find someone to blame, the reality of the situation often gets forgotten.

Is there another island, with the population size of australia, with an automotive manufacturing industry?

once globalisation started a couple of decades ago, it was going to become increasingly difficult to maintain an industry in this country even with support from within. Being surrounded by water has logistical challenges that other manufacturing countries, even the smaller ones, just don't have. Not to mention the population sizes are considerably larger in other manufacturing countries so demand is higher.

The reality is, the manufacturing industry in australia probably lasted about 10years longer than it should have.

But here's the thing: globalisation has peaked and is in retreat. The peak moment was probably the Trump tariffs on China. Currently, Chinese output has ground to a halt and free travel is looking increasingly sketchy. Capital, then manufacturing is being either relocated or moved back to the US. The UK declared its auto industry worth protecting in 2010, and will keep it as it expands into defence and space. Those countries enjoying free access of globalisation are getting hit with tariffs - and tweets revealing how naughty they have been. The wind has shifted and a smart approach would be to bet the other way with electric coming on fast, providing a foot in the door at the entry level.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Sounds like what the Chinese are doing with MG.

They sell on price point, those 3's are reasonable for $15kda and a small SUV for $22k will get attention.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

But here's the thing: globalisation has peaked and is in retreat. The peak moment was probably the Trump tariffs on China. Currently, Chinese output has ground to a halt and free travel is looking increasingly sketchy. Capital, then manufacturing is being either relocated or moved back to the US. The UK declared its auto industry worth protecting in 2010, and will keep it as it expands into defence and space. Those countries enjoying free access of globalisation are getting hit with tariffs - and tweets revealing how naughty they have been. The wind has shifted and a smart approach would be to bet the other way with electric coming on fast, providing a foot in the door at the entry level.

I dont often but for the most part I agree, globalisation has not been the savour whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

[Kingsley]

With Holden going, how long before Wheels and Motor magazine follow??

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

But here's the thing: globalisation has peaked and is in retreat. The peak moment was probably the Trump tariffs on China. Currently, Chinese output has ground to a halt and free travel is looking increasingly sketchy. Capital, then manufacturing is being either relocated or moved back to the US. The UK declared its auto industry worth protecting in 2010, and will keep it as it expands into defence and space. Those countries enjoying free access of globalisation are getting hit with tariffs - and tweets revealing how naughty they have been. The wind has shifted and a smart approach would be to bet the other way with electric coming on fast, providing a foot in the door at the entry level.

The difference is, Australia isn't shutting down it's auto industry. It never really had one. Nothing Australia does can stop an offshore brand pulling out if that's what it wants to do. We are unique in that we are an island. Like I said earlier, what other countries like us have their own auto manufacturing?

[Citroënbender]

I’d consider it “the decent thing” to return the imprimatur of logo and name, to national possession at close of the statutory warranty period. Naturally, with a permanent caveat saying it couldn’t be divested.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The part where Fordies care about Holden's extinction.

Yes, that was my comment and in reality it is fact, its not rubbishing them, just pointing out that GM used the Holden branding to sell their inferior products to people who we're easily fooled.
I didn't want to see them go though, Holden has been part of the social fabric of my neighbourhood from birth, it is an icon I never thought i'd see go under in my lifetime and something many of us from the north of Adelaide just took for granted in reality, however, I shed my tears with my production line mates when the announcement was made, although the media is desperate to have one last tug on the heart strings over this recent decision, that horse has bolted for the people who cared for the cars.

For the record, from a purely mechanical point of view there is only one Holden product built in this country which i'd take over the Ford equivalent and that would be a VL Commodore in i6 form for obvious reasons as the rest are nowhere near as good, but when looks are considered i'd favour a HQ over an XA, a HZ over an XC, and a VT over an AU, that's it.

People caring about other people. Apart from VT over AU....you need glasses ....personally I actually fell in love with the VH SL/E shadow tone 5L and then the XE Ghia ESP came out and it was lust...

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by prydey

The difference is, Australia isn't shutting down it's auto industry. It never really had one. Nothing Australia does can stop an offshore brand pulling out if that's what it wants to do. We are unique in that we are an island. Like I said earlier, what other countries like us have their own auto manufacturing?

I think you mean domestically owned, that's true. The Ford buildings up at North Shore look like they were a real auto industry, as does the old Pilkington Glass building. I reckon there would have been some Australian ownership of component suppliers and engineering contractrors, etc. So there was an industry.

Carbon Revolution, sounds Aussie owned, at least until listing.

[Ford17]

Cross-post to the similar thread in the Pits, GM may retain a niche presence in Australia once Holden is done and dusted, under the name of "General Motors Specialty Vehicles (GMSV)".

It sounds like RHD conversions to factory spec by HSV, similar to what they're already doing, but with more of a product range:
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827737/...-v8-supercars/

[jpd80]

By year's end, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia will probably swallow Holden''s sales and then some.
I don't see any other brands making any headway compared to those three.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

and then some.

Yesss indeed..

[sr71]

Just read on carsales that RHD "Corvette still coming".

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

By year's end, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia will probably swallow Holden''s sales and then some.
I don't see any other brands making any headway compared to those three.

I wonder if we will see a sudden rise in sales as Holden customers race to grab the last of them, or will we see the opposite, with vehicles not moving.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I think you mean domestically owned, that's true. The Ford buildings up at North Shore look like they were a real auto industry, as does the old Pilkington Glass building. I reckon there would have been some Australian ownership of component suppliers and engineering contractrors, etc. So there was an industry.

Carbon Revolution, sounds Aussie owned, at least until listing.

There is plenty of manufacturing here, yes, but no real Australian owned car company, unless you count guys like brabham.

Manufacturing happens in many countries and parent companies shut down factories all the time. This is not something unique to Australia.

Most manufacturing gets done in low labour cost countries, hence the popularity of Thailand and EV in China. Wage growth in Australia hasn't helped the situation. Not a huge factor but a factor nonetheless. Unions and employees at Holden were never happy and always wanting more benefits and higher income.

[ad2013]

FYI I came across this US Colorado forum perspective https://www.coloradofans.com/threads...ailand.414507/

[stock1991]

Rest in peace and with respect

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Cross-post to the similar thread in the Pits, GM may retain a niche presence in Australia once Holden is done and dusted, under the name of "General Motors Specialty Vehicles (GMSV)".

It sounds like RHD conversions to factory spec by HSV, similar to what they're already doing, but with more of a product range:
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827737/...-v8-supercars/

Journalistic license?

There are no announcements, wishful thinking I’m sorry from journo’s

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by ad2013

FYI I came across this US Colorado forum perspective https://www.coloradofans.com/threads...ailand.414507/

No surprise, there have been rumours for a while that there would be no new Colorado for RHD markets.

[sr71]

Spin Doctors talking about used Holdens going up in value. Then mention A9X & GTS Monaro....

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Journalistic license?

There are no announcements, wishful thinking I’m sorry from journo’s

Possibly; but then again it only involves ramping up the existing HSV operation, and adding a few more variants to the range.

And all put in place once the now-tarnished name of Holden has disappeared.

HSV or GMSV will essentially become a later version of what Mr Holden was back in the 1930's.

[GTLEGEND]

At a guess, I say 3 more generations and they wont know what a Holden was!

Even as a die hard Ford guy, this is not good news at all, the Ford V Holden will be gone for good!!

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I must admit that I am a little surprised by this.
It just goes to show how momentously inept their management has been, that the Holden brand, once the most Iconic in Australia, is worth nothing.

What I didn't realise until recently, was that in selling Opel, they also sold Vauxhall, so SE Asia and Australia were their last RHD Markets. I don't know what they sold their products as in Asia? GM I guess? I never saw that many.

So I guess once they decided to bail on RHD that was the end for Australia.

I wonder if somebody will buy the brand? Try to make some money selling rebadged Gheelys or somesuch?

Greatwall have Bought GM's RHD factories in India & Thailand.... It would make sense for them to Tie up the Holden Dealer network for their Aussie Distribution... I would Think.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

I wonder if we will see a sudden rise in sales as Holden customers race to grab the last of them, or will we see the opposite, with vehicles not moving.

a renewed interest in real Holdens, maybe carry Aussie Fords along too?
You don't have to go too far to find unconditional love.

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Greatwall have Bought GM's RHD factories in India & Thailand.... It would make sense for them to Tie up the Holden Dealer network for their Aussie Distribution... I would Think.

Have a read of this link about GWM and their plans
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827648/...re-great-wall/