VFACTS July 2013

[Iggle Piggle]

delete

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Mate, a truer word has not been spoken.

So Ford Australia moving from building an outdated car that sells less than 600 inits per month into being the Asian centre of excellence for design/testing etc is a backward step??

Building relativeley low tech machines in a hot, smelly factory enviorment can be done more cheaply in other countries - so economic forces will push the manufacturing base to those countries.

We should be thankfull we have an educated force of workers who can add value and growth at the highest level of engineering/ finance / education / medicine.

21st century blacksmithing is not the sign of a developed country.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Alas the government 'FBT rubbish' was an overly generous tax break on car leases (100% private!) which became middle/upper class welfare.

welfare?
warfare

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

The where loss making when the dollar was 1.04, it is now 0.89. So unless you have Holden’s costings sheets in front of you, you shouldn't say things that are just plain guesses!!

They werent loss makers when the Oz dollar was 1.04 to the US dollar. They were loss makers a little while back, when Deveraux said locally made cars were loss makers.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Spammy

We should be thankfull we have an educated force of workers who can add value and growth at the highest level of engineering/ finance / education / medicine.

Back off the Kool-Aid dude if you really believe that developing countries cannot get educated.
Hands on manufacturing and value adding to raw materials are THE backbone to a strong and engaged economy.
Some outer melb suburbs have youth unemployment at 16% and growing.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

welfare?
warfare

Yup. I'm in the trenches battling for my piece of the pie.

I've never been on the dole, received family payments, got a first home owners grant or any other payment.
I have though paid over, at a rough calculation, over $500K in income tax alone. How dare I have a tax break on a new car that keeps locals employed to build it, maintain it and look after the paper work. How dare I.

Class warfare indeed.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

They werent loss makers when the Oz dollar was 1.04 to the US dollar. They were loss makers a little while back, when Deveraux said locally made cars were loss makers.

Considering the AUD has been 1.00 + for over 2 years, when exactly did he make this comment?? You can't seriously be saying a profitability comment made to the media over 2 years ago has any meaning in this debate? If it was within the last 2 years, the dollar as still dropped a long way from 1.00 even.

This is just my opinion, but those “unprofitable” exports are about to become gold mines for Toyota & Holden very soon!! I can’t see a bottom to the dropping AUD anytime before 0.80. Just wait for next Tuesday & if RBA drops interest rates, the AUD will drop another 2-3 cents in a few hours.. IMO of course!

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Spammy

We should be thankfull we have an educated force of workers who can add value and growth at the highest level of engineering/ finance / education / medicine.

But instead of supporting the small local companies who want to use those skills, we give Billions to 3 large foreign car companies... year after year after year after year after...

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

But instead of supporting the small local companies who want to use those skills, we give Billions to 3 large foreign car companies... year after year after year after year after...

I do agree that the money would be better spent in spreading the funds between smaller companies and thus spreading the risk.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Cuyper

Could of, should of... Most of us could see they needed to 10 years ago. But they didn't, pity such an obvious and easy decision was overlooked at the cost of two great companies. Holden still have a chance to fix the situation but they would want to hurry up and get a decent base model engine in the VF II, then downsize the car itself for the next model.

Maybe the small fact that for the last ten years...Australian built fords have basically been winning every and all comparisons like city and so on.....so why back then would it make sense to look into the future and start building a small car in Australia...when we allready have the world class leading ford focus...also the biggest seller in the world aswell. You'd be stark mad to do that back then......I remember Jeremy clarkson saying the turbo falcon lineup was the best performance sedans IN THEWORLD under 100k. So what's poor local small ford supposed to do.....dump the most amazing aussie line up of world class cars just because it looks like they will soon become niche cars. Pah...some of you clowns have no brains or respect for ford and what they have to work with in the current and past climate there is no doubt they have handled it better then big spending SHAMEFUL HOLDEN.......while still giving us class leading cars.
Fine go buy your crappy Hyundai i30 then with good economy.......dont blame me when you hang yourself from depression driving it around all day. Rant over.crickets on

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Spammy

So Ford Australia moving from building an outdated car that sells less than 600 inits per month into being the Asian centre of excellence for design/testing etc is a backward step??

Building relativeley low tech machines in a hot, smelly factory enviorment can be done more cheaply in other countries - so economic forces will push the manufacturing base to those countries.

We should be thankfull we have an educated force of workers who can add value and growth at the highest level of engineering/ finance / education / medicine.

21st century blacksmithing is not the sign of a developed country.

make a list for me of all the things the top 10 selling cars have, that falcon doesn't have!

people like you are part of the problem.

falcons problem isn't the product, its the segment it competes in.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

make a list for me of all the things the top 10 selling cars have, that falcon doesn't have!

.

Number 1 on the list:
- Buyers


The other nine things aren't as important

[prydey]

so buyers are technology??

you have a short attention span.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Spammy

21st century blacksmithing is not the sign of a developed country.

How developed do you think Sweden is?
One of the highest educated in the World
One of the greatest living standards.

Yet the population contributes over $300 per person to their auto industry, twenty times what Australians contribute to their's

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

so buyers are technology??

you have a short attention span.

point of order - your original question did not mention techology...happy to requote it for you if your memory is not that good

anyways back to my wildly amusing response which highlights the biggest thing missing from the Falcon..... ie buyers

Lost of people can make a better car /hamburger/coffee whatever but if you are competing against Mazda/ Maccas / starbucks then you need to know how to bring buyers thru your door.

[jpd80]

If Ford is smart, they would roll out Falcon and Territory with value packs for the latter half of this year.
Something like that would not cost great bucks while matching most but not all of VF's new features...

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

How developed do you think Sweden is?
One of the highest educated in the World
One of the greatest living standards.

Yet the population contributes over $300 per person to their auto industry, twenty times what Australians contribute to their's

Having spent considerable time in Sweden and having a relo who works in the Auto industry over there, I think I'm well qualified to respond to your points.

So for all those contributions they have Saab who has gone broke for the 5th time and doesn't build anything and Volvo which is owned by the Chinese.

As for Swedish education - I agree they all go to uni untill they are in their mid twenites...problem is they do nothing with that. They have loads of very well educated public servants...whereas Aussies have worked out to turn high level education and skills into profits.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Spammy

point of order - your original question did not mention techology...happy to requote it for you if your memory is not that good

anyways back to my wildly amusing response which highlights the biggest thing missing from the Falcon..... ie buyers

Lost of people can make a better car /hamburger/coffee whatever but if you are competing against Mazda/ Maccas / starbucks then you need to know how to bring buyers thru your door.

like i said, you really do have a short attention span. my original comments were quoting yours!!! you know, the one where you said the falcon is outdated and lacking technology??

up until recently corolla only had a 4sp auto. mazda 3 didn't even have bluetooth etc. things like cruise control etc that have been standard in falcon for years, only recently finding their way into the 'best sellers'.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

like i said, you really do have a short attention span. my original comments were quoting yours!!! you know, the one where you said the falcon is outdated and lacking technology??

up until recently corolla only had a 4sp auto. mazda 3 didn't even have bluetooth etc. things like cruise control etc that have been standard in falcon for years, only recently finding their way into the 'best sellers'.

outdated [ˌaʊtˈdeɪtɪd]
adj
old-fashioned or obsolete

nothing to do with bluetooth mate

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Having spent considerable time in Sweden and having a relo who works in the Auto industry over there, I think I'm well qualified to respond to your points.

So for all those contributions they have Saab who has gone broke for the 5th time and doesn't build anything and Volvo which is owned by the Chinese.

As for Swedish education - I agree they all go to uni untill they are in their mid twenites...problem is they do nothing with that. They have loads of very well educated public servants...whereas Aussies have worked out to turn high level education and skills into profits.

Volvo trucks is much bigger, and not owned by the Chinese.
Employs nearly 100,000 people.

When Australia stops making things, and cant dig crap out of the ground we're only going to end up with public servants and social workers also.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by prydey

up until recently corolla only had a 4sp auto. mazda 3 didn't even have bluetooth etc. things like cruise control etc that have been standard in falcon for years, only recently finding their way into the 'best sellers'.

Mazda3 had Bluetooth in 2008.
Toyota Corolla had cruise control in 2007.
Hyundai i30 iPod and cruise control in 2007.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Mazda3 had Bluetooth in 2008.
Toyota Corolla had cruise control in 2007.
Hyundai i30 iPod and cruise control in 2007.

Not standard.
Current Corolla still doesnt have cruise standard.
I had 1983 626 that had cruise control...

[prydey]

can't argue with a goldfish

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Volvo trucks is much bigger, and not owned by the Chinese.

Correct.
Ford sold Volvo cars to the Chinese - Ford never owned Volvo trucks who are still Swedish.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

When Australia stops making things, and cant dig crap out of the ground we're only going to end up with public servants and social workers also.

Manufacturing is less than 10% of GDP ...Services Sector is 70%, Mining is 20% Iron ore / coal etc by itself is only 5%

Sorry to have to bring real facts into the debate.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Not standard.
Current Corolla still doesnt have cruise standard.
I had 1983 626 that had cruise control...

Standard on the bottom of the line Corolla Ascent.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

can't argue with a goldfish

WHy don't you knock up a chart showing number of gears and blueteeth on one axis v's monthly sales over time on the other axis and see if that helps you win your argument

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Standard on the bottom of the line Corolla Ascent.

Well I must ring the dealer, because the dozens of Corollas we have at work didnt come with it.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Volvo trucks is much bigger, and not owned by the Chinese.
Employs nearly 100,000 people.

.

Really --- google suggets they employ about 20,000 people world wide -- no idea how many of those are herring chasers

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Well I must ring the dealer, because the dozens of Corollas we have at work didnt come with it.

Standard on the Hatch - option on the Sedan ....sort of odd

Either way it doesn't seem to stopped people buying them