The greatest ever Australian performance car

[XR6WGN]

"no automatic transmission option and no stop-start fuel saving system"

Well there you go - I won't be buying one!!

[Chopped]

I was just thinking, out of all the very collectible race homologalated Aussie production cars that have raced at Bathurst, this car would have to be the most race ready of the lot. Yet will never be remembered for it's track time, but more so it's performance.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Chopped

I was just thinking, out of all the very collectible race homologalated Aussie production cars that have raced at Bathurst, this car would have to be the most race ready of the lot. Yet will never be remembered for it's track time, but more so it's performance.

As much as this thread regarding top speed is fun (all we have left to argue given Ford and Holden in AUS is essentially no more), you have to give credit to HSV- their commodore v8s were always given proper braking, and engineered properly with intercoolers and cooling from the get go.

Ford and FPV gave a ripper engine in the Miami, but the car was always seriously undercooked on the brakes department. I suppose they built to a budget and the reality that 96% of owners would not use the potential and those that progressed to track days etc would upgrade their brakes on their own dime.

But that recent 6 hours race at Bathurst (standard road cars but allowing special tunes) said everything, the Ford GT Miami labelled " GTF" hauled well, but within 2 laps its brakes were frying, which allowed the Commodore idiot to catch it and loose it overtaking the Falcon, taking them both out.

HSV for a price just put in decent rotors and monster AP callipers from the start-so I agree with you chopped.

Ford/FPV gave us a raw undercooked package with the Miami Falcon, you really have to spend another $20,000 on suspension, brakes, intercooler, tune, driveshaft, bushes, to get it to the point that it would be a really capable machine in terms of being able to do hard laps reliably around Bathurst etc.

But saying all that, I still love my raw undercooked FGX XR8.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by asagaai

As much as this thread regarding top speed is fun (all we have left to argue given Ford and Holden in AUS is essentially no more), you have to give credit to HSV- their commodore v8s were always given proper braking, and engineered properly with intercoolers and cooling from the get go.

Ford and FPV gave a ripper engine in the Miami, but the car was always seriously undercooked on the brakes department. I suppose they built to a budget and the reality that 96% of owners would not use the potential and those that progressed to track days etc would upgrade their brakes on their own dime.

But that recent 6 hours race at Bathurst (standard road cars but allowing special tunes) said everything, the Ford GT Miami labelled " GTF" hauled well, but within 2 laps its brakes were frying, which allowed the Commodore idiot to catch it and loose it overtaking the Falcon, taking them both out.

HSV for a price just put in decent rotors and monster AP callipers from the start-so I agree with you chopped.

Ford/FPV gave us a raw undercooked package with the Miami Falcon, you really have to spend another $20,000 on suspension, brakes, intercooler, tune, driveshaft, bushes, to get it to the point that it would be a really capable machine in terms of being able to do hard laps reliably around Bathurst etc.

But saying all that, I still love my raw undercooked FGX XR8.

Spend 20k on a Miami GT and it still would be a chunk cheaper than a GTS was.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Spend 20k on a Miami GT and it still would be a chunk cheaper than a GTS was.

Take it in for a roadworthy and emissions test and ADR approval and see if you can drive it out of the pits.....or whether you need to tow it home.
So many LOLs...

As a local modern factory production offering with warranty , this last HSV is the best overall package of performance /engineering and probably investment potential . Still can't understand the arguments against it...... methinks sour grapes and apple cider is on the menu.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Take it in for a roadworthy and emissions test and ADR approval and see if you can drive it out of the pits.....or whether you need to tow it home.
So many LOLs...

As a local modern factory production offering with warranty , this last HSV is the best overall package of performance /engineering and probably investment potential . Still can't understand the arguments against it...... methinks sour grapes and apple cider is on the menu.

Totally missed my point.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Totally missed my point.

I get the point.........
Its the same flawed argument as spending 5K on an XR6T which makes it "better" than an F6 and how spending 10K on an XR8 makes it "better" than a GTF.

The bitsas can be "perceived" better by the owners but end of the day - its the factory offering that forms the basis for these kind of accolades. ( Cant believe I said that - as I've modified the $%^& out of everything ive ever owned - but end of the day - its the truth.. )
It is what it is.....Ford also had its chance to go out with something extraordinary as well and retire with an amazing performance legacy - but we got the beancounter special instead.
Anyways..............

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by smoo

1: Wow, it took the third page for someone to bust out this old myth again. For someone championing 'tech' I'd thought you'd be the last person rooting for the Falcon.
2: Clutching at straws to try and undermine a great send off for the last hero Holden and Aussie Muscle cars in general. If only Ford/FPV went to such lengths to give us something to remember... sticker pack specials don't count and no one will remember the GTF or R spec in ten years time.


3: I can remember back in 04/05 one eyed Ford fans jumping in the dohc band wagon once the BA was launched (while the Boss was getting raped by the LS1)... where were they ten years earlier when every other maker was offering them to the market apart from FoA/Holden

1: Ok Smoo! Urban Legend has it. That you were the Super Genius, that designed and built the Polariser for the Brock Commodore. Am I right?
Also it a shame that Ford Australia killed the Falcon. As it was rugged and tuff and built for Australian conditions.

2: I think you will find in years to come, that the Performance Models of both Ford and Holden will be remembered by young and old.

3: There is another old saying that goes "Their is no substitution for cubic inches. Unless it's Blown or Turbo Charged." Yes the 5 Litre Boss engine was getting flogged by the 6 Litre LS1. But it wasn't until the FG with it's 5 Litre Super Charged Motor. That was the game changer.
And, Yes other Car Makers have offered these types of engines decades ago. lol.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by MethodX

1: Guess the Corvette and the Camaro Z21 must be bad then...
2: All the classic Ford muscle cars are crap now, and count for nothing.
Crush 'em.

3: Youre boat anchor Clevo's are nothing, by your rationale..

Who cares if they are operated by remote control, V8, and the right sound.

4: Thanks for the advice.

1: No! But I am surprise that the Corvette and the Camaro Z21. Still use 20th Century Engine Designed (ie, pushrods) in the 21st Century. I would have thought that GM would have gone down the same type of path as Ford. Using or experimenting with Quad Cams Heads on their LS Motors.

2: No. All Classic Ford Muscle Cars are and always will be desirable classics. As everyone would at some stage. Would like one.

3:The Ford Cleveland Motor is Legendary. Considering that Cleveland started its life as a truck motor. And some bright engineers at Ford. Had seen the potential of this motor and put some Hi Performance Parts on it. And earned it's place in the history of Racing and Muscle Cars.

4:"Thanks for the advice" Any Time.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

1: No! But I am surprise that the Corvette and the Camaro Z21. Still use 20th Century Engine Designed (ie, pushrods) in the 21st Century. I would have thought that GM would have gone down the same type of path as Ford. Using or experimenting with Quad Cams Heads on their LS Motors.

Ok...

Fords modular engine is self still a 20'th century engine (dates back to 1991)...

Now, it seems you are stuck on the notion of "DOHC=Modern!" Both OHC and OHV both appeared in the first decade of the 1900's...with the first OHC engine beating the OHV engine...

That out of the way, GM have had OHC am engine's in the past (Northstart DOHC V8 used by Caddies etc) and the Vette itself featured a DOHC 5.7 in the early 1990's...

Now, since we are talking about technology, the current LS engine features all the tech of any other "modern" engine, such as:

-Variable cam phasing/timing
-Active Fuel Management/displacement on demand.
-Direct injection.

Given the GM engine can meet the stringent CAFE standards, plus still make plenty of power, the "outdated pushrods" are proving there worth and on that point, the current Camaro ZL1 makes more power, but has the same fuel figures as the GT350 Mustang...

There is the age old adage: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". In this case, the GM LS engine shouldn't be criticized for its lack of a 110 year old cam design...its proven it capable of matching OHC engines...

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

1: No! But I am surprise that the Corvette and the Camaro Z21. Still use 20th Century Engine Designed (ie, pushrods) in the 21st Century. I would have thought that GM would have gone down the same type of path as Ford. Using or experimenting with Quad Cams Heads on their LS Motors.

2: No. All Classic Ford Muscle Cars are and always will be desirable classics. As everyone would at some stage. Would like one.

3:The Ford Cleveland Motor is Legendary. Considering that Cleveland started its life as a truck motor. And some bright engineers at Ford. Had seen the potential of this motor and put some Hi Performance Parts on it. And earned it's place in the history of Racing and Muscle Cars.

4:"Thanks for the advice" Any Time.

Makes me wonder why all Fords currently running in the Supercars are running old skool S.V.O engines and still managing to be competitive.

Perhaps it's just a case of stick with what you know or more likely the fact that it's the only way to have a nice linear torque curve.

They have the option of a non blown Miami but seem to all stick to a version of the old clevo.

Why complicate things when you don't have to.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Makes me wonder why all Fords currently running in the Supercars are running old skool S.V.O engines and still managing to be competitive.

Perhaps it's just a case of stick with what you know or more likely the fact that it's the only way to have a nice linear torque curve.

They have the option of a non blown Miami but seem to all stick to a version of the old clevo.

Why complicate things when you don't have to.

But the point remains for all out performance 4 valves beats 2. Or has F1 been wrong all these years going multi valve. Oh yes F1 cannot get around this by increasing capacity, as they are limited in terms of engine volume.

On the road manufacturers can resort to cubes-cheaper. But for ultimate performance 4 valves beats 2, engine volume being equal.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by XR6WGN

no automatic transmission option...

Yep, I reckon they got the auto/manual allocation spot on.

[XR6WGN]

Yeah me too - I was only joking that they made mention of the lack of the Stop / Start Fuel saving system.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

1: No! But I am surprise that the Corvette and the Camaro Z21. Still use 20th Century Engine Designed (ie, pushrods) in the 21st Century. I would have thought that GM would have gone down the same type of path as Ford. Using or experimenting with Quad Cams Heads on their LS Motors.

2: No. All Classic Ford Muscle Cars are and always will be desirable classics. As everyone would at some stage. Would like one.

3:The Ford Cleveland Motor is Legendary. Considering that Cleveland started its life as a truck motor. And some bright engineers at Ford. Had seen the potential of this motor and put some Hi Performance Parts on it. And earned it's place in the history of Racing and Muscle Cars.

4:"Thanks for the advice" Any Time.

1. GM have seen than a pushrod V8 with well designed combustion chambers can have just as good performance as an OHC engine.
And be cheaper to manufacture, lower in mass, have a lower centre of gravity, and be safer in an accident, No as much top heavy mass to come crashing through the firewall.

2. By the rationale of your lot of 77 crusties, the classic Fords and the Clevo are rubbish. Stone age tech.
After all the Yanks got rid of the Cleveland didn't they.

3. Yes thanks for the advice, its always a good laugh to see you lot whine.

[Iggle Piggle]

So that's it then...our last chance to punch on over locally-produced performance cars.

Was a good ride - shame it had to end.

[Sioso]

And so it begins....

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...t-300k-107020/

Australia’s fastest, most-powerful homegrown vehicle has a price tag to match. Just ask owners

Opportunistic HSV GTSR W1 owners have already begun trying their luck on the used car market, advertising highly-prized examples before they have even reached showrooms.

Two 474kW LS9-powered W1s have been advertised on Carsales with a circa 100 per cent markup – one for $299,999, the other for $320,000. Those prices are considerably up on the vehicle’s already-exorbitant $170,000 (plus on-road costs) new car sticker price, verifying the Commodore-based juggernaut as a genuine modern classic.

Speaking with motoring.com.au, HSV spokesman Damon Paull said there was little HSV could do to stop individual profiteering.

“We sell vehicles to dealers who sell them to customers. We’ve encouraged our dealers to consider to reward the customers who’ve been loyal to them,” he said.

Selling a ‘build number’ is common practice in today’s new vehicle market. It is especially prevalent where limited production is in place, as seen on recent examples including the Porsche 911 R.

The W1 has been deemed HSV’s greatest homegrown effort, lauded by the press and attracting almost unprecedented interest from enthusiasts.

The W1 - along with many other last-hurrah HSV, Holden and Ford models - has been earmarked by valuation experts as potential future earner.

Production of the W1 began in April and will continue through to September. Paull confirmed that owner vehicles were yet to be shipped to dealers.

Meantime, Paull confirmed that “only four or five” more HSV GTS models were due to roll through the factory before the nameplate is set to be put into retirement.

The lead timing and structure of HSV's Victorian manufacturing operations means that the GTS-R could become the last 'ground-up' vehicle to be built and delivered in Australia. You can only imagine the speculation around that car's value.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by Sioso

And so it begins....

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...t-300k-107020/

Australia’s fastest, most-powerful homegrown vehicle has a price tag to match. Just ask owners

Opportunistic HSV GTSR W1 owners have already begun trying their luck on the used car market, advertising highly-prized examples before they have even reached showrooms.

Two 474kW LS9-powered W1s have been advertised on Carsales with a circa 100 per cent markup – one for $299,999, the other for $320,000. Those prices are considerably up on the vehicle’s already-exorbitant $170,000 (plus on-road costs) new car sticker price, verifying the Commodore-based juggernaut as a genuine modern classic..

Maybe there trying to make enough to buy the true greatest ever australian performance car.......... the gtho ???

[arronm]

300K PPFFTTTT. I am selling mine for 1,000,000.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by Sioso

“We sell vehicles to dealers who sell them to customers. We’ve encouraged our dealers to consider to reward the customers who’ve been loyal to them,” he said...

Wonder if any of those 'customers' trying to cash in are dealer's or dealer's family?

Maybe some hefty dealer delivery fees.

[malazn mafia]

For that amount of money, one would think they would at least get matching colour panels? Those front guards are just shocking and something you'd expect on a North korean built Daepoo

[roddy1960]

G'day...This will always go down in history now as the greatest Australian ENGINE of all time..Absolutely no doubt whatsoever...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFSR...g#t=125.703703 ...Overall car re the topic is a lot more subjective.
The Barra Turbo is a gem....always ....fantastic..The stock torque from the turbo is there from 1900-5200 rpm at full tap if you want it ..Can't get much better than that..What's even better is that she's bloody durable and has huge scope as far as 1000 hp (supercar catagories) if you want to spend a few bob ..Even the Holden diehards love the mighty Barra T..
...Cheers Rod..

[Express]

There is an article in the Drive section of yesterdays (5 May) Sydney Morning Herald about classic cars as an investment and of course the overseas models that have a wider international appeal are the main subject matter but it did make reference to our local product and I’ve quoted that section.

You can go to the link to read the full article.


http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/c...03-gvxw0x.html

Australian models

If you're an Aussie V8 fan, look away now.

Much of the value in collectable cars in Australia comes from overseas interest as high-end dealerships such as Sydney's Classic Throttle Shop and Melbourne's Dutton Garage regularly buy and sell cars from the UK, Asia and America for customers at home and abroad.

While that 911 R is a desirable car on every corner of the earth, the last Australian HSV GTS-R W1 - a car that costs $169,900 plus on road costs ($200,000-plus on the real world) - has limited appeal outside our shores.



2017 HSV GTSR W1


Shaun Baker, general manager of Dutton Garage, says high prices paid for Australia's last Ford Falcons and Holden Commodores represent "a very big bubble that will burst".

"Australia is a very small market," he says.

"Don't jump on the bandwagon thinking that you're going to make money."

Holden offered buyers of its final Motorsport, Director and Magnum V8-powered models a chance to have their cars delivered in protective plastic. But Baker says they are "rubbish" investments compared to cars with a global appeal.

Classic Throttle Shop spokesman Jay McCormack diplomatically says he is "not quite sure" of the investment potential of late-model Holdens.

But both salesmen are convinced by high-quality European prospects.

"These cars are commodities now. It's sad, but that's the way it is," Baker says.

"The demand will always be there. People are buying them as blue chip investments. They're not driving them - they look at the clock.

"This isn't mum and dad in the suburbs, these are blue chip investors."

McCormack agrees, saying potential investors should consider cars with appeal beyond Australia's shores. McCormack says Japanese models from the 1990s have strong potential for the future - cars such as Subaru's original two-door WRX STI models as well as Australian-delivered Nissan GT-Rs and tech-laden curiosities that may strike a nerve with millennial enthusiasts in years to come.



WRX


"Cool, iconic Japanese cars from the late 1980s and early 1990s are seeing a larger rise - definitely Nissan products and Toyota products which are quite cool," McCormack says.

"That's probably where a bit of the focus is."

Fundamentally, McCormack says people should buy something they enjoy first, because "there is no proven science or formula to buying something that's instantly going to appreciate".


.

.

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...This will always go down in history now as the greatest Australian ENGINE of all time..Absolutely no doubt whatsoever...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFSR...g#t=125.703703 ...Overall car re the topic is a lot more subjective.
The Barra Turbo is a gem....always ....fantastic..The stock torque from the turbo is there from 1900-5200 rpm at full tap if you want it ..Can't get much better than that..What's even better is that she's bloody durable and has huge scope as far as 1000 hp (supercar catagories) if you want to spend a few bob ..Even the Holden diehards love the mighty Barra T..
...Cheers Rod..

Very true,I know a few die hard Holden guys who are mechanics and tune quite a few decent cars...They have a huge respect for the Barra, they tune a Barra ute that is pretty well sorted and they rave about it,the rest they don't have much emotion for...but they aren't investors,but then again neither am I...but there's no doubt the Barra will be an iconic engine.
I'm in this hobby for fun,not money. Personally I view speculators are a whole different breed of "enthusiast" Surely and savvy investor would be putting their money into a proven appreciating asset,be it 4 wheeled or other,one that has a global attraction, as for the speculators?? Whatever

[jakkes]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

1: No! But I am surprise that the Corvette and the Camaro Z21. Still use 20th Century Engine Designed (ie, pushrods) in the 21st Century. I would have thought that GM would have gone down the same type of path as Ford. Using or experimenting with Quad Cams Heads on their LS Motors.

2: No. All Classic Ford Muscle Cars are and always will be desirable classics. As everyone would at some stage. Would like one.

3:The Ford Cleveland Motor is Legendary. Considering that Cleveland started its life as a truck motor. And some bright engineers at Ford. Had seen the potential of this motor and put some Hi Performance Parts on it. And earned it's place in the history of Racing and Muscle Cars.

4:"Thanks for the advice" Any Time.

please redo your research the cleveland was designed from moment it was designed on paper... as a light easy to manufacture cost effective "performance engine" it was not a truck engine
351w,351m,400c are full size car and truck motors

[Express]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

1: No! But I am surprise that the Corvette and the Camaro Z21. Still use 20th Century Engine Designed (ie, pushrods) in the 21st Century. I would have thought that GM would have gone down the same type of path as Ford. Using or experimenting with Quad Cams Heads on their LS Motors.

Chevrolet Corvette factory tours suspended for 18 months


Autoblog
Reese Counts
3 days ago




© Sanford Myers for General Motors


A new Corvette is coming, and preparations for its inauguration are already under way at GM's Bowling Green Assembly Plant in Kentucky. According to The Bowling Green Daily News and the National Corvette Museum website, factory tours will be suspended for 18 months beginning June 16. While there has been no official explanation for the closure, a year and a half seems like enough time to rework the factory tooling for a mid-engine sports car.

Yes, automotive publications have been predicting the reveal of a mid-engine Corvette for half a century, but numerous spy photos show that GM is working on something special. Additionally, we have reason to believe that the Corvette's V8 will move away from pushrods, finally adopting a free-revving DOHC layout. While GM has worked Merlin levels of magic to make pushrods possible in this day and age, the move to overhead cams was going to occur eventually. In addition to the mid-engine platform, the factory might be installing a new DOHC engine production line.

Of course, the halting of tours might simply be to hide the new C7 Corvette ZR1 that we've seen running around. The truth is likely somewhere in between, since we believe both cars are coming and 18 months is far too long to rework the plant for another variant of the C7, even if it is the hot and ready ZR1. If the ZR1 is everything we expect it to be, it's going to be one hell of a way to close out this generation of Corvettes.

2018 will mark the sixth year of production for the C7 generation, a short lifecycle when compared to past Corvettes. The thing is, the C7 has roots going all the way back to 1984 and the introduction of the C4. Since then, the car has been undergoing heavy alterations and modifications, but the lines can be traced back. The real question has nothing to do with camshaft placement or factory tour dates. What we really want to know is, where does a leaf spring go on a mid-engine car?


.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/...2hq?li=BBnb7Kz


See the link for comments

.

[Express]

A short article that shows rarity and world wide appeal plays a big part in making a car worth big money as there can only ever be one of these and it's only a 6 cylinder.

Don't forget that auction date, May 20th.

The First Mustang Coupe Is Headed to Auction


The Drive
Eric Brandt
6 days ago




© Mecum


While the very first Ford Mustang convertible is rightfully parked in the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn, Michigan, the first hardtop, Mustang number 00002, is in private hands with 94,000 miles on the clock. It's the first Mustang to have a VIN and it was cobbled together with a 170 cubic-inch Falcon engine, a three-speed manual Fairlane transmission, and a Ranchero 3.50:1 rear end.

It was first sold up in the Yukon and it's owned by a guy named Bob Fria. Bob is about to add about a half million dollars to his net worth by selling this Mustang at Mecum in Indianapolis. He acquired the car in 1997 and gave it a thorough restoration that took about two years. It's easy to see it was carefully restored. It has a dark Caspian Blue paint job, a blue interior, and it looks like it could have been built yesterday. Even if it wasn't the second Mustang ever built, this would be one valuable pony.

Since it was basically built just to be in showrooms, it doesn't have a lot of options. It has an AM radio, backup lights, whitewall tires, and not much else. It has a few quirks that set it apart from a normal production Mustang like a straight gear shifter rather than the bent one that came in every other Mustang.

With an expected selling price between $450-650K USD, it's likely that this is the most valuable six-cylinder Mustang in the world. If you're a Mustang fan with that kind of dough burning in your pocket, look for this unassuming piece of history at Mecum on May 20th with lot number S125.


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http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthu...OUB?li=BBnb7Kz


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[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Express

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/...2hq?li=BBnb7Kz


See the link for comments

.

glad i got in early this year. was a fantastic tour

[FoureverFord]

Hi Guys & Girls, Just joined this forum yesterday & got my ok to participate today. While looking around I saw this thread, sparked my interest. I know it may not compare today in modern auto circles, but the 1971 XY GTHO Phase 3 falcon was the fastest production saloon car in the world, 142 mph, that's walk in to the showroom & drive out the door. No other Australian built car has or will ever (since Ausssie doesn't build cars anymore) be able to compare. It has a legacy like no other car in the world. Even sitting still, they just look fast & mean

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by FoureverFord

Hi Guys & Girls, Just joined this forum yesterday & got my ok to participate today. While looking around I saw this thread, sparked my interest. I know it may not compare today in modern auto circles, but the 1971 XY GTHO Phase 3 falcon was the fastest production saloon car in the world, 142 mph, that's walk in to the showroom & drive out the door. No other Australian built car has or will ever (since Ausssie doesn't build cars anymore) be able to compare. It has a legacy like no other car in the world. Even sitting still, they just look fast & mean

G'day ...Agree totally on the comments abot the iconic GTHO.....and welcome to AFF ...It's a great way to talk all things Ford and a ton of other motoring topics , not to mention other stuff too...Glad to see a new member...Have a ball....Cheers Rod