Covid 19 -

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Multiple citizenships, too easy. Thought you had that option? My loyalty to Australia is to my neighbours, my friends, to indigenous Aussies, even to the people I dislike personally - not to a government doctrine that belongs in the old Eastern Bloc.

The gay nomads found a legal loophole to leave in that they are “not ordinarily resident in Australia”. One of the exempted categories for heading overseas. Coincidentally, to Italy which is gearing up to accept vaccinamacated people.

No, where I am originally from does not allow dual citizenship. However, regardless of citizenship or PR, you can't just come and go as you wish. You can only leave if you can show that you meet the criterias. And just saying you won't be back for 3 months (one of the criterias), without other cause, is not sufficient as far as I am aware, I know people who have been rejected on that basis. If you have dual nationality, you could just claim you are leaving to reside at another destination I suppose.

Even if i had the choice, I'm quite happy here. Although I do miss my nephew and niece, they were due to come back July, but all flights cancelled due to outbreak in their transit destination.

Speaking of neighbours, our neighbouring countries are being hit with bigger waves than previous. I don't think some people appreciate the risk of an outbreak. Hence why I am supportive of the international border restrictions, and the necessary evil of snap lock downs where there is a local breach. I do however find it interesting that some can support one but not the other.

[lumen8]

Well there are two sides to international border restrictions... outbound and inbound.

Inbound is the risk. And obviously more outbound leads to more inbound, which is why both are shut.

That said, on the outbound.... if its for longer than 3 months, perhaps even longer like 6, and you accept you cant get back in easily, can demonstrate you can support yourself and wont be whining about not being allowed back in, I think that should be ok.

[slowsnake]

excluding Australian cricketers and/ or American movie stars!..lol

[T3rminator]

A bit of positive spin on current scenario, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I am hoping we end this lock down sooner than 14 days. If its extended based on current trend and numbers, I'll be first to jump to the "other side".

Inside the war room: Why Victoria is winning the COVID battle

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...05-p57ydb.html

The evidence so far suggests that these changes, combined with good leadership and the extraordinary efforts of people like Jay Caruso, who worked 15-hour days in the South East war room at the peak of the outbreak, have given Victoria a level of COVID protection beyond what anyone who witnessed last year’s failures could have imagined.

‘Remarkable’: Economic experts predict quick bounce from lockdown woes
https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...03-p57xxw.html

Experts from the ANZ and consulting giants EY and KPMG are all tipping the state’s economy will regain its pre-lockdown momentum once the restrictions in force for Melbourne are lifted.

Work by KPMG, based on the state’s extended 2020 lockdown, suggests the current restrictions will cost Victoria about $125 million a day, much lower than early industry estimates.

KPMG chief economist Brendan Rynne said while workers were having to weather this lockdown without the federal government’s JobKeeper wage subsidy, fewer businesses were being forcibly shut this time.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT June 6th, 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

10 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 3.017%.

No cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.969% and active cases 17.

The UK had a lower 5,653 cases yesterday and 13 deaths.

Just under 18k new cases in the USA yesterday and 126 deaths sees CMR at 1.789%.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)

Taiwan (476); and
Mongolia (1,393)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for their 10 day average and none drop below.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

However, regardless of citizenship or PR, you can't just come and go as you wish.

Unless of course you happen to be Scotty from marketing - and either related to him, or part of his entourage. After holidaying in New Zealand (just for a chat), he is now packing his bags for his European vacation this week visiting the UK and France, then stopping over in Singapore on his way back.

He should be put in hotel quarantine (preferably in Melbourne), which is his preferred method of quarantine for returning travellers, on his return. What's the chance of that happening?

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Unless of course you happen to be Scotty from marketing - and either related to him, or part of his entourage. After holidaying in New Zealand (just for a chat), he is now packing his bags for his European vacation this week visiting the UK and France, then stopping over in Singapore on his way back.

He should be put in hotel quarantine (preferably in Melbourne), which is his preferred method of quarantine for returning travellers, on his return. What's the chance of that happening?

Have you had both jabs? Prime Minister of Oz doing his job and doing the rounds, Who would have thought! And why would he go into quarantine in Vic? Pretty sure he would use any other states Quarantine system before that one.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

And why would he go into quarantine in Vic?

He will be much safer in Melbourne.

VIC is the only state currently undertaking daily nasopharyngeal (RT-PCR) testing of all hotel quarantine workers. Which is the gold standard of COVID testing.

NSW on the other hand, (and only since January '21 mind you) have resorted to only daily rapid saliva testing, with weekly nasopharyngeal tests, and only for some of their quarantine workers.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...06-p56s6u.html

Saliva PCR testing is not as accurate as the nasopharyngeal PCR test. False negatives are likely. This is not new news. Plenty of research available to back these findings. Why the heck are NSW doing daily rapid saliva testing when there is data to prove it is not that accurate??

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/cli...e-as-widesprea


As for the current Melbourne lockdown continuing until Friday, I'm all for it. Melbourne, being the sporting capital of Australia, has some world class sporting events coming up. The MotoGP at Phillip Island. The F1 GP at Albert Park. And some might even consider the AFL GF a world class event (I don't). We in VIC need to do everything we can to nail this down, and keep it nailed down.

Unfortunately though, VIC is currently dealing with two highly infectious virus strains. One that was released by our neighbour to the west, and the other potentially also leaked by our neighbour to the north (still under investigation). We are paying the price for major **** ups by incompetent hotel quarantine systems of other states.

While VIC is doing the right thing now after learning the hard way, other states seem to have missed the lessons learnt by VIC and are playing chicken with the virus.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Unless of course you happen to be Scotty from marketing - and either related to him, or part of his entourage. After holidaying in New Zealand (just for a chat), he is now packing his bags for his European vacation this week visiting the UK and France, then stopping over in Singapore on his way back.

He should be put in hotel quarantine (preferably in Melbourne), which is his preferred method of quarantine for returning travellers, on his return. What's the chance of that happening?

Why bother getting vaccinated if you still have to quarantine when you travel to covid live areas

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

He will be much safer in Melbourne.

VIC is the only state currently undertaking daily nasopharyngeal (RT-PCR) testing of all hotel quarantine workers. Which is the gold standard of COVID testing.

NSW on the other hand, (and only since January '21 mind you) have resorted to only daily rapid saliva testing, with weekly nasopharyngeal tests, and only for some of their quarantine workers.

Thats all well and good. Vic has finally learnt after its 4th lockdown- is that what your saying?

Going off case numbers though, i rekon he would be better off coming back to his home state.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

Has Vic has finally learnt after its 4th lockdown- is that what your saying?

Yes. There's a level of introspection now from the Victorian ALP and their public service-appointed apparatchiks . As discussed and acknowledged earlier, they've reached the end of the road insofar as plausible excuses will go. So Premier Merlino has been actively forging closer ties with the Feds whilst ex-premier andrews is absent.

Although after years of defunding and centralizing the public health system even the best intentions of redemption may fall short.

Deputy CHO Allen Cheng says Melbourne’s COVID-19 lockdown remains a ‘day by day proposition’

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...tion-c-3029416

Extra 100,000 COVID-19 vaccines being sent to Victoria as state battles outbreak

https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...1-1f823cfd3bf6

[Citroënbender]

Included in Victoria’s head count for their current outbreak is a nursing home resident who’s apparently received both doses of vaccine. I understand from how the news article portrayed it, they are nonetheless in hospital as a precaution.

There’s no clarity on whether their last dose was too recent for achieving full efficacy or if there were other contributors to their hospitalisation (as opposed simply to isolation in care).

But if the statistics are going to start including “fully vaccinated” people, perhaps they deserve a distinct category.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

Thats all well and good. Vic has finally learnt after its 4th lockdown- is that what your saying?

No. We started doing things right after our second lockdown in August/September last year. Other states are still dragging their feet and haven't learnt a thing!

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Yes. There's a level of introspection now from the Victorian ALP and their public service-appointed apparatchiks . As discussed and acknowledged earlier, they've reached the end of the road insofar as plausible excuses will go. So Premier Merlino has been actively forging closer ties with the Feds whilst ex-premier andrews is absent.

Although after years of defunding and centralizing the public health system even the best intentions of redemption may fall short.

Blah, blah, blah... what a load of gibberish! Talking a load of ****. Try sticking to issues in your own state. There's plenty there for you if you open your eyes. Oh wait... you can't see what you don't want to see is it?? Wrong political party is it??


[If you have a question for the moderators you can PM us. You may not like the outcome though]

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Included in Victoria’s head count for their current outbreak is a nursing home resident who’s apparently received both doses of vaccine. I understand from how the news article portrayed it, they are nonetheless in hospital as a precaution.

There’s no clarity on whether their last dose was too recent for achieving full efficacy or if there were other contributors to their hospitalisation (as opposed simply to isolation in care).

But if the statistics are going to start including “fully vaccinated” people, perhaps they deserve a distinct category.

We are told, to achieve full efficacy, you need to wait for 3 weeks for Pfizer and 3 months for AZ. They brought the 2nd doses "forward" for these aged care residents on the day it was announced that there was a case. What does that do for efficacy in the long run?

It was reported the case today was asymptomatic, hospital as a precaution and is the standard procedure now. So that's a good start.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

No. We started doing things right after our second lockdown in August/September last year. Other states are still dragging their feet and haven't learnt a thing!

Yet we dont have the same issues Vic does?
Not sure im understanding your point?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Or is there different rules for members with "coloured" usernames?

Try the donate button. And not make grievances against moderators / admins in public They are throwing bones, you don't always have to fetch.

I do find it funny that some of these loyals are so confident and satisfied with their own state's handling, that they feel they have to inundate this thread with propaganda against other states.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Try the donate button .

It’s not “donate” - it’s “give back to the AFF community”. Try it one day... I’m sure you’ve got a spare $20

[PG2]

The next person who questions the ethics of a moderator in this thread or any other thread within this forum can have a 7 day holiday.

Also, be careful if you want to PM one of us. The above will apply.

Quite frankly, I am sick of it. We donate our time to administer this forum so we all can have somewhere to 'hang out' and share our experiences. We don't expect anything in return and that includes being abused or having our ethics questioned.

At the end of the day, us moderators are human and we do the best we can.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

Yet we dont have the same issues Vic does?

You don't?? You sure? Who are you referring to when you say "we"?

We as in NSW? No hotel quarantine leaks there? Did you manage to contain it within NSW? Did it spread to VIC?

We as in South Australia? No hotel quarantine leaks there? Did you manage to contain it within SA? Did it spread to VIC?

To date, 21 quarantine failures have occurred between April 2020 and June 2021 in Australia:

3 in Queensland
8 in New South Wales
2 in South Australia
5 in Victoria
3 in Western Australia

NSW winning that one.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

Yet we dont have the same issues Vic does?
Not sure im understanding your point?

It’s difficult for the true believers. They’ve reached the reckoning where Dan-isms will no longer pass for truth. Hence new Premier Merlino’s truce with the Feds.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Included in Victoria’s head count for their current outbreak is a nursing home resident who’s apparently received both doses of vaccine. I understand from how the news article portrayed it, they are nonetheless in hospital as a precaution.

There’s no clarity on whether their last dose was too recent for achieving full efficacy or if there were other contributors to their hospitalisation (as opposed simply to isolation in care).

But if the statistics are going to start including “fully vaccinated” people, perhaps they deserve a distinct category.

While I understand the Vaccine has never been sold as full preventative to contracting Covid, this is where the big push for all ages to get it somewhat loses me.

By all means the aged and vulnerable should be first in line to get it if they do wish to do so, my grandparents have had their first AZ and I think that was a logical decision when weighing up the pro/cons.

But at the presser today a point was made how those in care homes don’t contribute to social immunity due to their isolation from community and that it was the younger people that needed to get the injection, to me this position seems illogical for the initial basis for restriction was to protect the vulnerable.

Should we not be throwing all the vaccines at those aged 60 and over, with the intention of cracking back into normality?

The recorded infections of the vaccinated have shown that chasing zero cases even once jabbed will not be achievable, so what’s the actual immediate to intermediate aim here?

[lumen8]

Meanwhile, in the UK...

Matt Hancock says there are 'plenty of good reasons' to give Covid jabs to children amid reports that jabs for 12 to 15-year-olds will be rolled out in August ahead of the new school year

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ly-August.html

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

You don't?? You sure? Who are you referring to when you say "we"?

We as in NSW? No hotel quarantine leaks there? Did you manage to contain it within NSW? Did it spread to VIC?

We as in South Australia? No hotel quarantine leaks there? Did you manage to contain it within SA? Did it spread to VIC?

To date, 21 quarantine failures have occurred between April 2020 and June 2021 in Australia:

3 in Queensland
8 in New South Wales
2 in South Australia
5 in Victoria
3 in Western Australia

NSW winning that one.

[T3rminator]

Lets play follow the leader.

NSW government to lodge proposal for federally-funded quarantine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-...tine/100193822

Interestingly I read somewhere else that they are proposing for the commonwealth to both fund and operate the facility. The commonwealth gave an emphatic no to operating the Victorian proposal.

And I also wonder if the 30,000 wanna returnees will change their minds once vaccine roll out is completed where they are at. That would then impact the ROI on these investments.

And I'm curious why New Zealand aren't having these issues as frequently as we do.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

You don't?? You sure? Who are you referring to when you say "we"?

We as in NSW? No hotel quarantine leaks there? Did you manage to contain it within NSW? Did it spread to VIC?

We as in South Australia? No hotel quarantine leaks there? Did you manage to contain it within SA? Did it spread to VIC?

To date, 21 quarantine failures have occurred between April 2020 and June 2021 in Australia:

3 in Queensland
8 in New South Wales
2 in South Australia
5 in Victoria
3 in Western Australia

NSW winning that one.

Hmmm.wonder which state took more Indians?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

He will be much safer in Melbourne.

VIC is the only state currently undertaking daily nasopharyngeal (RT-PCR) testing of all hotel quarantine workers. Which is the gold standard of COVID testing.

NSW on the other hand, (and only since January '21 mind you) have resorted to only daily rapid saliva testing, with weekly nasopharyngeal tests, and only for some of their quarantine workers.

.

To discourage self entitlement obsessive people I recommend a deep Covid test....so deep as to emulate a prostate check, let's see how many essential travellers that discourages?

[oldel]

I don't know how this virus has the ability to bring out stupidity but it sure does. Everything from denial of airbourne particles from WHO, intial governments responses elsewhere, having to learn lessons the hard way (over and over, no one learning from elsewhere, have to stuff up themselves first), freedums, state rivalry...it's unbelievable.

I feel sorry for Vics, I don't feel the need to attack them due to their bad luck, their gov etc.
Relax, maybe support some by buying an otto and spike beanie this winter - melbourne made wool beanie, instead of other imported or china rubbish

[George V]

Originally Posted by oldel

I don't know how this virus has the ability to bring out stupidity but it sure does. Everything from denial of airbourne particles from WHO, intial governments responses elsewhere, having to learn lessons the hard way (over and over, no one learning from elsewhere, have to stuff up themselves first), freedums, state rivalry...it's unbelievable.

I feel sorry for Vics, I don't feel the need to attack them due to their bad luck, their gov etc.
Relax, maybe support some by buying an otto and spike beanie this winter - melbourne made wool beanie, instead of other imported or china rubbish

We need a common credible enemy; if there is none, then ......

Cheers,
George V

[Charliewool]

https://thecostaricanews.com/169-peo...ng-vaccinated/

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by oldel

I don't know how this virus has the ability to bring out stupidity but it sure does. Everything from denial of airbourne particles from WHO, intial governments responses elsewhere, having to learn lessons the hard way (over and over, no one learning from elsewhere, have to stuff up themselves first), freedums, state rivalry...it's unbelievable.

I feel sorry for Vics, I don't feel the need to attack them due to their bad luck, their gov etc.
Relax, maybe support some by buying an otto and spike beanie this winter - melbourne made wool beanie, instead of other imported or china rubbish

I feel sorry for the Victorian folk too, but this is a classic example of the man on the streets not caring " she'll be right mate " attitude towards voting!
Victorians voted in their Government and trusted these people to protect, to manage or basically do the right thing!
They don't mind the big fat pay check, now earn the bloody thing, that's the man on the streets taxes paying your private education for ya kids!

Cheers Billy.