Will the Holden brand survive?

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

The Button Plan ended up being the nuclear button plan to the entire car industry here.....

And Keating said it was and still stands by it today, one of the best things to happen to Australia and the automotive industry.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

Probably but I didn't get defeated by a retired fat dude...... Yeah old folks here remember your original thumbnail....

I'm not retired.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I worked for a company that operated a coal mine in a remote corner of Borneo.
There was no other industry or employer within a hundred miles. There was small scale fishing, and some really hard subsistence agriculture trying to make things grow on what was mostly bare rock. Prior to the mining boom, the coal price was actually tanking, and we were going to put the mine on C&M. The local Governor unilaterally granted us a series of massive tax breaks in order to keep the mine open.
When the price rebounded, the taxes came back, and brought some friends.
If you want to invest hundreds of millions building a mine, or factories, or a smelter, most countries (including USA) do what they can to assist and smooth the process.

But Australia has inherited the old British ideology, where the role of governments is to stop things happening.
Australia COULD have an auto industry, still. We could restart tomorrow, and do it profitably, exporting cars across the Indian and Pacific. In fact our natural advantages in many areas would make it relatively simple, if our governments would do even a fraction of what other nations do.

Australian Gov, when it comes to mining, still gives massive subsidies to these companies while, these mines, gives people work and no tax to the gov.

The Aus Gov could provide subsidies to other manufacturing/workplaces but according to their ideologies, buying something cheaper, from another country, is always better.

We, the consumer, are to blame as well. We always seem to gravitate to the cheaper item.

It's disappointing that the auto manufacturing has disappeared. It times of war, eg, these factories could be retooled for army vehicles, ammunition etc.

For another thread...……..A lot off topic!

[Cav]

A good analysis ...



Combined, all three brands have lost more than $1.5 billion on their local manufacturing operations over the past decade, despite receiving more than twice that in taxpayer funding over the same period.

So, who’s to blame for this predicament?

Federal Governments who created low import tariffs and signed Free Trade Agreements that gave cheap foreign cars the upper hand?

The unions that demanded better wages and conditions for their workers?
Or the bosses at the international headquarters of the car companies who treated Australian governments like a cash machine?

The truth is all of these factors share at least some responsibility for the industry’s demise, along, sadly, with the buying public and fleet operators who swapped patriotism for a broader choice of more affordable, more desirable, and more suitable imported cars.

Successive governments from both sides of politics created the economic environment that Australia now finds itself in: a nation with high wages, low import tariffs and a strong currency.

These three factors make it impossible to profitably export cars, especially when you’re surrounded by Asia-Pacific countries that don’t need Australian-made vehicles because they’re making their own — for one-quarter of the labour cost.


https://www.couriermail.com.au/why-a...b40d8d0f0711c7

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by bungarra

And Keating said it was and still stands by it today, one of the best things to happen to Australia and the automotive industry.

It's almost like they were a 5th column trying to destroy the place. The biggest burden fell on the working people who were in the auto industry - as tariffs fell their jobs got eradicated. It's just stunning that the policy came from the side of politics that is supposed to look out for workers. You can stick it to the evil bosses, but if there's no job at the end you lose and they lose.

Originally Posted by Romulus

Exactly. The Globalists thought it was business as usual with Hillary winning the 2016 election, they never thought she'd loose. Except, she did, Trump is not a career politician beholden to anyone, he's systematically restoring businesses in the US, people are getting their jobs back, their economy is going great. Trump's brought vaChina to its knees, they're having to root out their deep state operatives in order to avoid further tariffs which only hurt itself.

Australia on the other hand is going down the gurgler, aided and abetted by all the political parties.

I reckon we will see the same play out in Australia eventually - some departments will be at war with the ideals of others, then electorally we will swing in to join the tide going on in the US, UK etc. We're just one cycle behind them, maybe 7-10 years. Absolutely everything has been sacrificed to keep prosperity going, keep the housing bubble, keep out of recession since 1990. Sometimes you just have to let the things happen. The price we've paid is lost our industry, house prices to the moon locking out young locals, sold off university places of young locals, rented out our future. Surely a recession once in a while would be better?

Here's Donny in a 1980 (1980!) interview - note how consistent his views are over 40 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAgJAxkALyc

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

The Button Plan ended up being the nuclear button plan to the entire car industry here.....

If you want an industry you have to nurture and support it. You can't play free trade if everyone else is protecting their industries.

Cav that was a good link.

[Sprintey]

Also, the only hope for Holden would have been if the billionaire auto parts entrepreneur (think he owns a GM transmission plant in Belgium) was able to buy the Aussie production. That deal didn't go through.

If it did, they would still be making the RWD VF platform, there would be no FWD Commodore fiasco, Aussie who buy patriotically would still have an option, affordable RWD performance fans would still have an option (RWD wagon fans too!) - and there would still be large scale auto value-adding going on in SA. GM might benefit too, selling V8 motors and V6s to the concern with none of the manufacture/distribution risks. For the billionaire, the risk would be selling VF as a sedan as the segment continues to shrink, so the smart money would suggest they would have an SUV based on the platform at advanced development stage about now.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Also, the only hope for Holden would have been if the billionaire auto parts entrepreneur (think he owns a GM transmission plant in Belgium) was able to buy the Aussie production. That deal didn't go through.

If it did, they would still be making the RWD VF platform, there would be no FWD Commodore fiasco, Aussie who buy patriotically would still have an option, affordable RWD performance fans would still have an option (RWD wagon fans too!) - and there would still be large scale auto value-adding going on in SA. GM might benefit too, selling V8 motors and V6s to the concern with none of the manufacture/distribution risks. For the billionaire, the risk would be selling VF as a sedan as the segment continues to shrink, so the smart money would suggest they would have an SUV based on the platform at advanced development stage about now.

GM Didn't want someone to Buy Holden, & show them how It should('ve) be(en) Done.........

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Also, the only hope for Holden would have been if the billionaire auto parts entrepreneur (think he owns a GM transmission plant in Belgium) was able to buy the Aussie production. That deal didn't go through.

If it did, they would still be making the RWD VF platform, there would be no FWD Commodore fiasco, Aussie who buy patriotically would still have an option, affordable RWD performance fans would still have an option (RWD wagon fans too!) - and there would still be large scale auto value-adding going on in SA. GM might benefit too, selling V8 motors and V6s to the concern with none of the manufacture/distribution risks. For the billionaire, the risk would be selling VF as a sedan as the segment continues to shrink, so the smart money would suggest they would have an SUV based on the platform at advanced development stage about now.

Therein lies part of the problem, Aussies aren't patriotic when it comes to parting with their cash, they're price focused primarily.

Part of the demise of the automotive industry is unelected government bureaucrats and government sector employees, who've never created either a single job in their lives, or 'worked' a single day in their lives, conjuring up policies which disadvantaged local manufacturing to the advantage of overseas suppliers. The Falcon Ecoboost was a specific vehicle that came to mind, it met the 'CO2' emission target of less than 200g/km, so government agencies reduced the target for fleet vehicles, local produced vehicles were never going to get a look in.

[lra]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Silly. You can get good money for old printed material.

Really ?? I took 240kg of old motoring magazines dating back to early 1970's to the recycling dump last year. Advertised them on a couple of forums (not this one) for nix. Got the same amount of replies.
Guess what ? I didn't even miss them when they were gone.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by bungarra

And Keating said it was and still stands by it today, one of the best things to happen to Australia and the automotive industry.

Problem was, they never changed it to suit market conditions. It stayed the same the whole time. They should have adapted the tariff rates only if it was feasible to do so. So when times got tough they still had some protection.

When times eventually got tough tariffs kept dropping and the tariff protection was gone. Completely stupid.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Also, the only hope for Holden would have been if the billionaire auto parts entrepreneur (think he owns a GM transmission plant in Belgium) was able to buy the Aussie production. That deal didn't go through.

If it did, they would still be making the RWD VF platform, there would be no FWD Commodore fiasco, Aussie who buy patriotically would still have an option, affordable RWD performance fans would still have an option (RWD wagon fans too!) - and there would still be large scale auto value-adding going on in SA. GM might benefit too, selling V8 motors and V6s to the concern with none of the manufacture/distribution risks. For the billionaire, the risk would be selling VF as a sedan as the segment continues to shrink, so the smart money would suggest they would have an SUV based on the platform at advanced development stage about now.

Was never going to happen in a million years. Why would GM allow someone to use their IP to compete against them for sales?

[hayseed]

GM now have one less RHD market/factory...

Holden's well & truly DONE..Just have to wait for the Death Notice..


https://www.drive.com.au/news/great-...tm_medium=link

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Cav

A good analysis ...



Combined, all three brands have lost more than $1.5 billion on their local manufacturing operations over the past decade, despite receiving more than twice that in taxpayer funding over the same period.

So, who’s to blame for this predicament?

Federal Governments who created low import tariffs and signed Free Trade Agreements that gave cheap foreign cars the upper hand?

The unions that demanded better wages and conditions for their workers?
Or the bosses at the international headquarters of the car companies who treated Australian governments like a cash machine?

The truth is all of these factors share at least some responsibility for the industry’s demise, along, sadly, with the buying public and fleet operators who swapped patriotism for a broader choice of more affordable, more desirable, and more suitable imported cars.

Successive governments from both sides of politics created the economic environment that Australia now finds itself in: a nation with high wages, low import tariffs and a strong currency.

These three factors make it impossible to profitably export cars, especially when you’re surrounded by Asia-Pacific countries that don’t need Australian-made vehicles because they’re making their own — for one-quarter of the labour cost.


https://www.couriermail.com.au/why-a...b40d8d0f0711c7

Most of the big losses incurred were plant write downs, the rest of the losses only prove that all the money was expended here and not hived off to the USA.
The money stayed here, now there’s a 30 billion a year funnel out of Australia.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by hayseed

GM now have one less RHD market/factory...

Holden's well & truly DONE..Just have to wait for the Death Notice..


https://www.drive.com.au/news/great-...tm_medium=link

That’s the thing I notice, GM is pulling back everywhere, not just here and Europe. If Korea folds then that’s GM international in tatters.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s the thing I notice, GM is pulling back everywhere, not just here and Europe. If Korea folds then that’s GM international in tatters.

Technically GM has been dead since 2009. US taxpayer's money was used to create another company called GM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motors...dation_Company

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s the thing I notice, GM is pulling back everywhere, not just here and Europe. If Korea folds then that’s GM international in tatters.

The focus is china and north america. Just a matter of time before they are the only 2 areas GM service.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s the thing I notice, GM is pulling back everywhere, not just here and Europe. If Korea folds then that’s GM international in tatters.

They are not supporting RHD markets


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[blue sleeper]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

I'm not retired.

r/Whoosh....

[DFB FGXR6]

https://www.caradvice.com.au/821637/...rns-to-toyota/

GM must have really done a number on Buttner.

[dunga]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

https://www.caradvice.com.au/821637/...rns-to-toyota/

GM must have really done a number on Buttner.

I wonder if he will has any trouble getting the dpf fixed

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by dunga

I wonder if he will has any trouble getting the dpf fixed

He'll take it straight to Berrima Diesel for that......

[ebv8]

gone!

https://www.caradvice.com.au/827459/...XS0mgOKieXLI9g

[Yellow_Festiva]

Yep, just heard it on the wireless...

Sent from my LG-M700 using Tapatalk

[RHR]

Earlier than expected but not surprised.

[Fordman1]

Wow 😮

Was going to happen but regardless it’s a shock.

[rods falcon]

Just imagine if you brought into a dealership 10 - 15 years ago - Would have paid top dollar for goodwill, now worth nothing. Feel sorry for the dealers and employees.

[ebv8]

so much for the 7 year free scheduled serving

"To receive the benefit of the Service Price, Customers must have the Scheduled Service performed at an authorised Holden Dealer."

[xr8territory]

WOW. I knew it was coming but seeing the headline on the news and suddenly realising it is final, makes me feel rather melancholy.

[Sprintey]

And so we have the answer to the thread. The indigenous motor company that was painstakingly built, co-funded, and grown with policy by the adults who lived through the Great Depression (in 1969 Holden had their own ship and were exporting to SE Asia); then saw the protections stripped away as their children came into power; now gone and their grandchildren will have to go offshore if they want to value-add or have an automotive career with a major car co. We are back to where we started before Chifley launched that first Holden 48-215...

Edit: in truth, 2017 was that time, but now the brand is gone too.

[Craig@AUDI]

Farewell old friend/Foe

[Bossxr8]

Was just a matter of time.

I wonder how much money GM wasted making the C8 Corvette in RHD?

I was surprised to see they even shut down Lang Lang and the design studio considering they were doing work on a range of GM products that are not dependant on which side of the car the steering wheel was on.