Covid 19 -

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by HIPO

Another interesting vid in regards to covid etc.... an alleged recording of Aus. Fed. Police commisioner by a whistleblower...

Originally Posted by lumen8

Do you think that is his voice though? Some say it isnt.

It could just be a vigilante trying to gather police together who are against what is going on.

Or it could be a honeypot to identify such people.

Whatever the case, this is the stuff that ASIO and the fed police are there to stop... they are there to protect the government, so cant see much coming from that... other than arrests carried out on them (not by them)... and those people getting put on terror lists.

(yes ive watched the vid in its entirety on ********)

I've got a bridge to sell you blokes!.....

[PG2]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Venues NSW wants vaccine passports for live sport from 2022



https://www.2gb.com/venues-nsw-stand...ort-from-2022/

I can see where this is heading. ​

Essentially, more and more exclusions will be introduced for the unvaccinated and it will end up with politicians saying, "We are not making people get vaccinated, but you will not be allowed out in public for non essential means unless you have a vaccination passport."

It will end up that you will have to carry it everywhere with the politicians bleating, "You will not have to carry your passport everywhere... you can get the app on your phone."

[russellw]

Originally Posted by PG2

I can see where this is heading. ​

Essentially, more and more exclusions will be introduced for the unvaccinated and it will end up with politicians saying, "We are not making people get vaccinated, but you will not be allowed out in public for non essential means unless you have a vaccination passport."

It will end up that you will have to carry it everywhere with the politicians bleating, "You will not have to carry your passport everywhere... you can get the app on your phone."

... and we'll track your movement every time you use the app but of course we'll only use the data for the intended purpose 'contact tracing' and we won't make the data available to any other branch of Government (unless of course we are asked to but only then if they have a really, really good reason) and we'll keep your data very secure - or at least as secure as we can manage (which based on our current track record, is probably marginally less secure that putting it in your kids money box) and we'll respect your privacy in accordance with the guidelines published somewhere hard to find that are full of exclusions.

Trust me, I'm from the Government.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by PG2

I can see where this is heading. ​

Essentially, more and more exclusions will be introduced for the unvaccinated and it will end up with politicians saying, "We are not making people get vaccinated, but you will not be allowed out in public for non essential means unless you have a vaccination passport."

It will end up that you will have to carry it everywhere with the politicians bleating, "You will not have to carry your passport everywhere... you can get the app on your phone."

True but what options are there? I dont mind it, people still have a choice even if its a forced one (and thats a matter of perspective).

Business and society cant keep on locking down indefinitely. If we have vaccinated only events then you would think those places would then not need to worry about numbers, masks, spacing etc..the current system is a logistical nightmare and there are huge losses running at 50% capacity.

If people dont want the jab, fine, but just watch it on TV.

My concern is the backlash, look at France, sure they love a riot but its going to cause an even bigger rift than now.

[hayseed]

Sums It up Pretty well, I reckon..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_0zFEtPbiA

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT August 1st 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

251 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 2.688%.

3 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.905%.

The UK had a lower 24,139 cases yesterday and lower 65 deaths for a CMR of 2.206%.

A lower 54,030 new cases in the USA yesterday and lower 242 deaths sees CMR at 1.760%.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)
Asia passes 900k deaths;

Kazakhstan (7,803);
Cuba (9,747); and
Japan (12,343);
... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period and none drop below.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by russellw

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT August 1st 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

251 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 2.688%.

3 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.905%.

The UK had a lower 24,139 cases yesterday and lower 65 deaths for a CMR of 2.206%.

A lower 54,030 new cases in the USA yesterday and lower 242 deaths sees CMR at 1.760%.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)
Asia passes 900k deaths;

Kazakhstan (7,803);
Cuba (9,747); and
Japan (12,343);
... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period and none drop below.

The CMR's over the last 6 months would be interesting. A lot of that early data was skewed due to huge numbers of cases not being diagnosed. Not asking you to do the work Russ, just stating that where it is at ongoing makes interesting numbers when looking at the risk/benefit of opening up, especially the CMR's from countries with over 50% vax rates.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by tweeked

The CMR's over the last 6 months would be interesting. A lot of that early data was skewed due to huge numbers of cases not being diagnosed. Not asking you to do the work Russ, just stating that where it is at ongoing makes interesting numbers when looking at the risk/benefit of opening up, especially the CMR's from countries with over 50% vax rates.

I did post the global CMR's a few pages back but it's probably too early to get definitive data for high vax rate countries yet.

What I can say, from the UK analysis thus far, is that CMR appears to drop significantly as the UK has dropped from around 1.8% over the pandemic duration to 0.44% in the current wave.

I'm not sure that the UK is a great example for global assessment, if only because we know their methodology for counting COVID mortalities is flawed compared to the WHO recommendations but it is still an indicator given their methodology hasn't changed.

It's why Florida will be another useful litmus test. They are over 10M vaccinated which is 48% of the total population but well over 50% of the adult population and as they have abandoned all restrictions we can gauge how their CMR changes. I'll need another two weeks to accumulate enough data to draw any meaningful conclusions and I suspect that their methodology might also flawed given their overall CMR is only 1.48% despite the high percentage of 70+ in the population but the early data is suggesting that it has only fallen slightly but take that with a large grain of salt!

[russellw]

Florida is going to be another place to watch. Despite having a new record of 21,683 cases in a single day yesterday their Governor (tipped to be a Presidential candidate next go round) has stated that there will be no lockdowns, restrictions or even compulsory masks based on his 'let the people decide' motto.

They had got down to below 2k cases / day through June and early July but case numbers have risen almost every day since 8th July with more than 110k cases in the last week alone.

To put that in perspective, their population is only 4M less than ours and I'd hate to even think what would happen here if we had > 20k cases a day.

They have been reasonably fortunate, for a State with such a high percentage of aged persons, to have a CMR that is down around 1.48% but they have just edged over 100 deaths / day and that is likely to worsen in the next few weeks.

I'm going to start watching that with the same methodology I'm using for the UK.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Venues NSW wants vaccine passports for live sport from 2022



https://www.2gb.com/venues-nsw-stand...ort-from-2022/

What if a vaxxed person spreads it to a un-vaxxed person? Which happens. Or are people only going to turn on the un-vaxxed because feelings?

You can see what is going to happen here, the high and mighty vaxxed will turn on the un-vaxxed from their high horses. But if they are vaxxed, why do they care if someone chooses not to? It's a personal choice.

I can see the authorities causing a great divide over this.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What if a vaxxed person spreads it to a un-vaxxed person? Which happens. Or are people only going to turn on the un-vaxxed because feelings?

You can see what is going to happen here, the high and mighty vaxxed will turn on the un-vaxxed from their high horses. But if they are vaxxed, why do they care if someone chooses not to? It's a personal choice.

I can see the authorities causing a great divide over this.

It’s going to be an interesting next 6-12 months, Health passports open up some interesting future possibilities.

Outside of age which nobody beats, obesity is a leading co-morbidity for Covid mortality on US statistics, not to mention all the other related issues that block up our health system considering Australia has a similar problem with obesity rates.

Maybe we should be using a “Health” passport to guide more than just vaccination status.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What if a vaxxed person spreads it to a un-vaxxed person? Which happens. Or are people only going to turn on the un-vaxxed because feelings?

You can see what is going to happen here, the high and mighty vaxxed will turn on the un-vaxxed from their high horses. But if they are vaxxed, why do they care if someone chooses not to? It's a personal choice.

I can see the authorities causing a great divide over this.

This topic has caused divide from day dot. No jab no play policy.

"Herd immunity" is why people care whether or not people who can be vaxxed, get vaxxed. Once we hit that magical number, which scientists seem to collectively think is around that 90% mark, it becomes less of a problem if the remaining 10% are unvaxxed.

But if we had 20-30% people not wanting to be vaxxed, the virus will still find it easy to move around, and will likely mutate, causing problems for everyone all over again.

Why is there no "Australian" variant? Because we haven't allowed the virus to move uncontrollably in our environment. But we have the South African, Indian, UK strain etc.

[Citroënbender]

While data is up for discussion, I’m having trouble finding a running tally of NSW cases where isolation status is “under investigation”.

Every day we’re fed a number, but where can I see the resolved data? That’s assuming they don’t just sweep the unresolved cases into the wastebasket every night and let them be.

[russellw]

Health 'passports' for anything other than International travel are going to open up a whole range legal issues that will be wrangled about for the next decade or more unless the Government extends the current public health orders to include other classes of workers other than those already included.

It's a decidedly rocky road to head down but I'm sure some countries will try.

[HIPO]

I know i cant stand getting this stuff rammed down our throats,by the likes of channel "get the jab" 9.

Also with there being shortages of the vax for some, how come the relevant patents aren't being dropped?

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by HIPO

Also with there being shortages of the vax for some, how come the relevant patents aren't being dropped?

Because they do not need to be, that is not the issue.

If someone wants to produce it, they can under license. We make AZ under license. But they need to have the facilities and technical capabilities to do it. Just like we could not just make an RNA vaccine, even we did not have the ability and infrastructure to.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Because they do not need to be, that is not the issue.

If someone wants to produce it, they can under license. We make AZ under license. But they need to have the facilities and technical capabilities to do it. Just like we could not just make an RNA vaccine, even we did not have the ability and infrastructure to.

Astra Zeneca supplied the United Kingdom with patent free vaccine at cost price, guess what?...Pfizer and Moderna tried to stop em in court, then they went to the EU and tried to convince them that a 3rd booster shot of Pfizer was needed!.$$$$$$$$$$



Cheers Mr W

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Astra Zeneca supplied the United Kingdom with patent free vaccine at cost price, guess what?...Pfizer and Moderna tried to stop em in court, then they went to the EU and tried to convince them that a 3rd booster shot of Pfizer was needed!.$$$$$$$$$$



Cheers Mr W

It doesn't change the fact that the RNA vaccines are a commercial product that can be purchased.

On Pfizer and Moderna, do you have a source for this? I cannot find anything other than the EU taking AZ to court for not supplying within time.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

It’s going to be an interesting next 6-12 months, Health passports open up some interesting future possibilities.

Outside of age which nobody beats, obesity is a leading co-morbidity for Covid mortality on US statistics, not to mention all the other related issues that block up our health system considering Australia has a similar problem with obesity rates.

Maybe we should be using a “Health” passport to guide more than just vaccination status.

Excellent point. If I had a crack at an obese person for taking up a hospital bed, i'd be called out for fat shaming. But if a person chooses not to be vaxxed, it's ok to attack them?

It's a personal choice.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It doesn't change the fact that the RNA vaccines are a commercial product that can be purchased.

On Pfizer and Moderna, do you have a source for this? I cannot find anything other than the EU taking AZ to court for not supplying within time.

You won't find it, some of these things are not for public view, the info come from my brother in the UK, he is well connected in UK and EU, I posted his email where he mentioned it in this thread, only after the moderator complained about this NSW v Victoria rivalry, the mod asked for real first hand effects of Covid-19 on the average person, have emailed him for more info, big pharma is a cut-throat business, but got a little reading matter for you, not much but interesting all the same!

Aditya Goenka, University of Birmingham
January 28, 2021 6.37pm GMT
Hopes that rolling out vaccines would control the the pandemic have been dealt a blow by an emerging dispute between the EU and AstraZeneca. The manufacturer has said that because of production problems in Belgium, it will not be able to supply as many vaccines as expected to the EU, but that its supply to UK will be unaffected.

In response, the EU has said it should be given a share of AstraZeneca doses manufactured in Britain, and politicians have suggested it could control exports of other vaccines – such as Pfizer’s – out of the bloc. This is despite the European Medicines Agency not yet having authorised the AstraZeneca vaccine, although approval is expected soon. But the EU still faces questions over its slow vaccine rollout.

It was clear from the outset that it would take a very long time to make enough vaccines to meet demand. In this context, the EU, UK, USA and Canada ordered enough doses to vaccinate their populations several times over. These orders were placed as a way of hedging bets, as it wasn’t clear which vaccines would be successful.

But on January 22 2021, AstraZeneca revealed that the order placed by the EU would come up short. In the first quarter of 2021, AstraZeneca said it would deliver 31 million vaccine doses to the bloc, rather than 80 million as stated previously. The EU president and health commissioner immediately pushed back against the decision.


On January 26, AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot gave an interview to the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, explaining the situation in more detail. There are two stages to vaccine production, he said: the production of the drug substance (the vaccine itself) and production of the final product (putting the vaccine in vials for use). These steps are carried out in different locations in different countries.

Mr Soriot said that there have been teething problems with the first step, as the yield of the vaccine-production process is often not high enough. This has been resolved in UK plants, as they started production earlier due to the UK signing its supply agreement with AstraZeneca three months before the EU. But these issues are yet to be resolved at the Belgian plant supplying Europe.

The EU doesn’t believe its citizens should be kept waiting for vaccines when UK supplies haven’t been cut. MikeDotta/Shutterstock
However, AstraZeneca feels that issues with the production of the drug substance will be resolved. From February, it estimates global production will increase to 100 million doses a month, with EU facilities accounting for 17% of this supply. But in the meantime, it is continuing to scale up production in the UK to 2 million doses a week, with Britain’s schedule not expected to be affected by problems elsewhere.

Despite meetings with AstraZeneca to understand the delayed deliveries, EU officials are not satisfied with this. Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides has said: “We reject the logic of first come, first served. That may work at the neighbourhood butcher’s, but not in contracts and not in our advanced purchase agreements.”

The EU has implied that the shortfall in vaccine availability is due to AstraZeneca selling vaccines to other countries, and that it should make good the shortfall by restricting supply to UK.

But what exactly was agreed?
The EU hasn’t disclosed exactly what its advanced purchase agreement with AstraZeneca is. The agreement secures a number of doses, and individual member states can order these once the vaccine’s use has been authorised. In AstraZeneca’s view, it agreed to supply vaccines according to its “best effort”, rather than committing to delivering a certain number of doses by a certain date. It expects to meet its future quarterly targets for the EU, should the European Medicines Agency authorise the vaccine.

Some, such as Germany’s health minister Jens Spahn, have said that in the meantime the EU should stop exporting other vaccines made on the continent, such as the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. For now the EU is only upping requirements as far as making manufacturers declare their exports. But export bans may follow.

It may seem strange that the EU is getting worried about a vaccine that it hasn’t yet approved, especially as there are concerns in Europe about its efficacy. But there are factors at play in the background. The US is not exporting vaccine doses manufactured domestically, as Donald Trump signed an executive order to restrict the use of US-produced vaccines to the US alone. The current push for vaccination under President Joe Biden suggests that the US will not be backtracking on exporting vaccine doses any time soon.

Pfizer has also reduced supply of its vaccine in Europe as it looks to upscale its production capacity. Meanwhile, vaccine development by the Louis Pasteur Institute and Merck in France has been abandoned, while the French medical giant Sanofi is also struggling with its programme. The EU is seeing multiple hedged bets failing.

Tensions have boiled over in the Netherlands, with protests against coronavirus restrictions taking place across the country. EPA-EFE
The EU is lagging behind the US and UK in vaccinating its population. Part of this is due to its slowness in ordering and approving vaccines, but to some extent it’s also down to potential over-reliance on the AstraZeneca vaccine. With civil unrest in Netherlands against lockdown, there’s growing pressure to increase the rate of vaccination in order to lift such restrictions.

There’s also an edge to this controversy because the UK’s delivery of AstraZeneca vaccines is unaffected. In the aftermath of Brexit, it’s easier for the EU to pick on the supply chain that’s working for UK rather than targeting, say, the one that’s working for the US. There are already export bans on medicines from the UK to EU and a trade war may be brewing.

But the question of who should get the vaccine, the UK or the EU, is really a controversy that should be avoided. Vaccine nationalism that one feared would happen is clearly here, and if left unchecked, is going to create new stress points that will hinder the coordinated pandemic response.


Cheers B

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Because they do not need to be, that is not the issue.

If someone wants to produce it, they can under license. We make AZ under license. But they need to have the facilities and technical capabilities to do it. Just like we could not just make an RNA vaccine, even we did not have the ability and infrastructure to.

There are good facilities etc. OS that could handle it.

[yakcam]

It will be interesting to see what health insurance providers are going to do. Will they insure a non vaccinated person? Probably, but I'm sure it will be at an insanely inflated price.

[CyberWasp]

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

I think there are provisions to protect public health. If you work in the sex industry, you'd probably have to prove you are STD free. We employ people in certain countries that have to prove they are drug free, and require them to do blood tests as proof, its legal.

As for jabs, its not new...no jab no play legislation.

https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/publi...sked-questions

[Citroënbender]

It’s possibly easier for private entities offering a discretionary product or service, to discriminate.


P.S. Imagine if a vaccine lottery included prizes of a complete, registrable Ph3 reproduction, and similar other Aussie classics?

[Citroënbender]

Doubled up, apologies.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

It really depends on the requirements of your industry I guess, all that you mention above (and more that you haven't) has to be declared when signing on to the ship as crew, as master I'm the one legally bound to request it and the on-signing crewmember is legally bound to provide it.......it's in the crewmembers (and crewmates) best interest to do so.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

It really depends on the requirements of your industry I guess, all that you mention above (and more that you haven't) has to be declared when signing on to the ship as crew, as master I'm the one legally bound to request it and the on-signing crewmember is legally bound to provide it.......it's in the crewmembers (and crewmates) best interest to do so.

Im sure like other we get heat temped every day, if you are over you have 10mins or so to have another go, if still over then on your way.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Im sure like other we get heat temped every day, if you are over you have 10mins or so to have another go, if still over then on your way.

Twice a day, am & pm.

[DoubleTrouble]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

You are not going to inspect anyone's confidential health file details, vaccination details are easily accessed by your medicare card which only tell you your date when you were immunised whether flu or covid shots.