ACA - On the QLD'er who didn't keep left

[Keepleft]

Can't group all 'asians' together as one though - just as you can't group all 'whites', some nations just do better in this regard. . .

Now in Hong Kong, people are taught to use the left lane on a motorway, are told in their driver manual to move back to the left lane once they have passed traffic in the middle lane, or right lane. Just like in NSW, England and EU (mirror reverse).

The Hong Kong driver manual will form, or gradually is forming the mainland China road code manual, to be read by all candidates. China has upped its freeway speed limits from 110km/h to 120km/h.

On the other hand, yes, there are many asian nations that simply do not impose or require the discipline we have here applied to high-speed roads. This will change, but does take time, I know Malaysia and Singapore insist on people keeping left, much complaint about middle lane drivers just like here, you only need visit a Malay driving forum to see this.

The Philippines have similar (keep left- 'right') signage on their expressway, but much work is needed on both those and the l.a.w.

[XA-Coupe]

Having been on a hong kong and a chinese freeway I can tell you virtually no one does 100 let alone 120 .. most people seem to top out around 80. Though they seem to have a far better keep left discipline. Living in a Communist dictatorship has to have an effect on drivers attitude.

Oh, if you want to have a cererbral haemmorage go for a spin in Cambodia .. particularly in Siem Reap.. there is no keep left..right... give way ..or any other rules... but the general speed is 35-40 kph so they have plenty of time to react when something unexpected happens.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Can't group all 'asians' together as one though - just as you can't group all 'whites', some nations just do better in this regard. . .

Now in Hong Kong, people are taught to use the left lane on a motorway, are told in their driver manual to move back to the left lane once they have passed traffic in the middle lane, or right lane. Just like in NSW, England and EU (mirror reverse).

The Hong Kong driver manual will form, or gradually is forming the mainland China road code manual, to be read by all candidates. China has upped its freeway speed limits from 110km/h to 120km/h.

On the other hand, yes, there are many asian nations that simply do not impose or require the discipline we have here applied to high-speed roads. This will change, but does take time, I know Malaysia and Singapore insist on people keeping left, much complaint about middle lane drivers just like here, you only need visit a Malay driving forum to see this.

The Philippines have similar (keep left- 'right') signage on their expressway, but much work is needed on both those and the l.a.w.

You know what it is laziness.
My mum very close friend is overseas right now teaching English in Beijing, Know he said there first language is prefers to be English. When they are there they speak English, But when they move country's they loose it for some reason when they are fully capable of speaking great English, He puts it down to laziness or no pressure on them so slip into old ways.

[GasoLane]

For Keep Left
I remember being in an RTA office a few years ago and whilst reading some posters I noticed that it was (is?) possible for foriegn speaking people to obtain a NSW license through an interpreter if the applicant couldn't speak English.

When I mentioned that all that was needed there was for the interpreter to know the rules the lovely lady behind the counter said. "Not at my window they dont! the applicant answers in English or they dont get anything!!" which cracked me up but is this still possible?

[Full Spectrum]

That reminds me 2 years new years night 2 young Chinese teenagers were walking down the street talking Chinese, When my mum and i got close to them they started to talk English and said happy new year to us in very strong Aussie accenats... Hey hows it going happy new years mate shrimp on the Barby stuff.

[Sledgehammer]

Back on subject.....The guy was a complete tosser, I hate it when they cruise in the Right lane and will not move over to allow anyone to pass as if they own the road.

And we all know who actually owns the road dont we..........

[pertuan]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

For Keep Left
When I mentioned that all that was needed there was for the interpreter to know the rules the lovely lady behind the counter said. "Not at my window they dont! the applicant answers in English or they dont get anything!!" which cracked me up but is this still possible?

I think that just shows that some interpreters are dishonest. They shouldnt be helping the guy taking the test.

Back on topic: What I hate more than people who choose to cruise on the right lane below the limit are people who choose to match speeds with the guy on the LEFT lane. Essentially producing a moving road block with no way to get around.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

For Keep Left
I remember being in an RTA office a few years ago and whilst reading some posters I noticed that it was (is?) possible for foriegn speaking people to obtain a NSW license through an interpreter if the applicant couldn't speak English.

When I mentioned that all that was needed there was for the interpreter to know the rules, the lovely lady behind the counter said. "Not at my window they dont! the applicant answers in English or they dont get anything!!" which cracked me up but is this still possible?

A person undertaking a license test can organise an interpreter, yes, but the interpreter is NOT to answer questions. The "Road Users Handbook" is printed in many languages. It is considered one of the worlds best, so much so that RTA were recently aproached at government level by the Kingdom of Jordan asking if we'd mind if they used some of our pages etc in their domestic version! Indeed some of our NSW text I use in the New York State driver manual (NYSDMV), where it is NYS-legal to so impart, the use of rear fog lights (SAE J1319) for example.

The interpreter availability is a national thing where each state authority can arrange one for a candidate, this has more to do with how the jurisdiction 'imparts' its test, 'the questions etc'.

People often say vis; 'how can a *$%#@$ foreigner expect to drive on our bl^^$y roads when they can't e$%^* read #$@%@#$ english'??

The reason is 'our traffic', is internationalised - that is lane layouts, coloured bus lanes, hatched intersections, MOST all road traffic signs, 'side-of-road' driving expectation, etc, is all passed onto the citizens of the world via the United Nations process through the - "Road Traffic, Road Signs and Signals" Conventions.

They are adopted (contracted) by states parties and pass into national legislation. The idea being that when a person driving in one country then visits another, the expectation he or she can have on-road, - is one of similarity!

White lines you see on video footage from around the world, is a UN thing - each rule is adopted following widespread working party (WP) consultation, comprising the worlds leading safety, industry and traffic engineers.

This Convention also dictates such items as all 'signalling requirements' to be given by a road user, lane use - 'to keep to the outer most lane', lighting and when certain lights must be used (nightfall-sunrise), and a multitude of other detail, right down to warning triangles and hazard lights, crash reporting requirements and so on.

You local driver manual is only doing the job of imparting what is international requirement, sometimes however the state employees 'forget' about all this stuff, these are typically the newbies utterly ignorant where a certain 'rule' arrives from or why.

* I look forward to the day when we have a single national driver manual, with other learner tuition books remaining state issue.

Example, the sign PROHIBITING certain types of vehicle (horses, pedestrians etc) form motorways arrives to us from the UN Road Traffic Conventions. Now, where a state of Australia fails to post the sign, such state then fails its responsibility, I could say that where a person such as a cyclists is killed on a motorwway - that the authority *could* be found negligent for failing its contractural duties.

Example of another error we are about to adopt in the new Australian Road Rules update due later this year relates to this:

We will soon allow the use of hazard-warning lights to be automatically activated in conjunction with an alcohol interlock device. In fact, our use of hazard warning lights as currently highlighted in the existing ARR's contravenes much of the signalling requirements of the UN Conventions, where their use is treated 'as designed';- "to give other traffic an urgent signal of an on-road hazard or emergency", certainly NOT as defact rear fog lights, NOR to warn road-users of ice-cream vehicles and therefore the risk of kids staggering about. (Zig-Zag amber are permissible under UN).

Australia is one of the very very few countries of late that have gone off on a path of 'unique design and requirement', this can and will put us at risk when we drive with the rest of the world team, OR when they visit us.

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

In Victoria we have the law keep left 80kp/h and above. This should be enforced 60kp/h above or when more then 1 lane is present.
I don't won't to sound racist or anything but i know the Asian drivers love right hand lands. Until recently i thought they didn't have a clue how to drive. Then i learnt they are taught that way it's a disgrace, Keep in the right lane as to avoid cars turning left and cars parked on the left side, You do not need to brake as much less frustrations you then get to your destination at the speed limit easier. This is what they are taught......

I find that its not necessarily asians or any other race, but I've noticed that many luxury car drivers are obnoxious, arrogant, selfish and drive like they're the only cars on the road.

My pet peev is when people don't indicate, or don't indicate correctly when negotiating a round-about.

:

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

A person undertaking a license test can organise an interpreter, yes, but the interpreter is NOT to answer questions.

So in effect the license apllicant HAS to learn English, if only enough to read the road rules?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by AshMan

I find that its not necessarily asians or any other race, but I've noticed that many luxury car drivers are obnoxious, arrogant, selfish and drive like they're the only cars on the road.

My pet peev is when people don't indicate, or don't indicate correctly when negotiating a round-about.

:

Ohh! that was hurtfull! (see avatar!)

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

So in effect the license apllicant HAS to learn English, if only enough to read the road rules?

The interpreter will 'interpret' a question posed in English to the candidate, but will not give answers, or are not supposed to do so. Non english speakers will often attend driving schools run by folk who speak their lingo, AND they can most often read the driver manuals in their own language.

Some tests can be taken in certain languages, this however depends on the jurisdiction and its administrative capabilities.

I DO support the requirement at international level that English is 'the-business' language of the world, certainly recognised so in China and India, Pakistan etc and so on where it is mandatory, something the French are NOT pleased with :-)

Example, this is draft 'Tok Pisin' text regarding the use of rear fog lights which is to be included into the Papua New Guinea driver manual, I hope by 2012. It would be 'interpreted' by a person for a Papuan - Motu language driver candidate should a question be asked "when may a rear fog light be used'?

"Supos motaka, trak bilong yu igat switch mak olsem, "(=" nem bilong em 'baksait klaud light'. Yu ken putim, supos igat planti klaud na ren tasol, or planti smok'.

You can see here the gradual adoption of using ISO symbols in driver tuition in the lighting field, something we may begin doing at Australian level within years.

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Ohh! that was hurtfull! (see avatar!)

No hurt intended, mostly talking about euro posers (had two incidents with two seperate lexus' today) and BMW, MERC and the like.

Mind you, we have a Bently GT that fuels up at work, the owner is a champ and took me for a spin the other day...

Just depends on the person I spose.

[Firefox7]

Originally Posted by gregxr8

i was sent this in an email.

Haha...

It's actually a true story and it did happen. However the Workcover inspector lost his job over this. Why....Police are not obligated to wear a Hi-Visability vest unless they feel it is warranted depending on the role or the situation. A Hi-Visability vest is an easy target for those that carry firearms and choose to use them.



Cheers

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by AshMan

I find that its not necessarily asians or any other race, but I've noticed that many luxury car drivers are obnoxious, arrogant, selfish and drive like they're the only cars on the road.

My pet peev is when people don't indicate, or don't indicate correctly when negotiating a round-about.

:

Yes them too.

Yes i must admit to seeing brand news cars without blinkers maybe the factory doesn't ad them now a days:P. Too posh and lazy to obey the road rules.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by AshMan

No hurt intended, mostly talking about euro posers (had two incidents with two seperate lexus' today) and BMW, MERC and the like.

Mind you, we have a Bently GT that fuels up at work, the owner is a champ and took me for a spin the other day...

Just depends on the person I spose.

Hmm, I'll have to think about that....... Up until about 6mths ago I had two XJ Jags ('74 & '78 both V12's) :evil_laug

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Hmm, I'll have to think about that....... Up until about 6mths ago I had two XJ Jags ('74 & '78 both V12's) :evil_laug

I think of cars like that as classics...

Like I said, depends on the person.

[deesun]

Originally Posted by AshMan

No hurt intended, mostly talking about euro posers (had two incidents with two seperate lexus' today) and BMW, MERC and the like.

Mind you, we have a Bently GT that fuels up at work, the owner is a champ and took me for a spin the other day...

Just depends on the person I spose.

My experience lately has been;
1 Woman 35 - Hyundai
2 Woman 50 - Benz;
3 Woman 19 - Laser;
4 Woman 35 - Hyundai
5 Woman 45 - ?
6 Man 40 - ?
My experience also tells me to drive on the freeway with my headlights on and people see you comming more often.
As for your friend in the Bently, you haven't seen him out on the freeway yet. So hoo knows.
I think the rules should read 80kph and above NOT above 80kph.

[new2ford]

Nothing like the morning school run to see it all. I saw the road safety trifecta this morning. First a woman (in a Toyota of course) stops right on the stop line of the school pedestrian crossing and lets her daughter out and makes her cross in front of her car - where she is blocking the view to following traffic. (I pulled up beside her which sent her into a tizz thinking her daughter was about to be run over - I hope it makes her think before she does that again, but unfortunately lots of parents do this.) Then she follows me onto the Pacific Highway where I see in my mirror that she moves directly into the right lane and stays there for several km. Two dangerous acts already but no law enforcement.

Then down the highway a former neighbour who's in the police dog squad pulls into the highway in his police car. Immediately everybody slows down to 55 including a right lane hog who's right in front of the police car and boxes him in then for a few km!

This thing with speed - the great revenue-raiser - has got everybody so focussed on that (and unfortunately its only the speed limit they're focussed on, not what is a safe speed for the conditions) that all this other incompetent dangerous driving gets by scot free. This woman's actions were all at slow speed yet she was far more a threat to other road users than somebody who goes 15kph over the speed limit on a wide open highway on a sunny day. Seems to me the whole driver education thing is up the duff. Together with the emphasis on speed limits rather than what is a safe speed in the circumstances.

[OLDFORDNUT]

hear hear, i agree 100%, as ive said on another forum,
we have same speed limits onas we did 20 years ago with much better roads, much better brakes and handling, much more tar and wider roads even in bush yet we are treated like morons by our own government,
go figure.
we have 1/3 the road toll of 20 years ago at same time we have tripple the amount of cars on road as back then,
we really should be rewarded for being better and safer yet the opposite has happened,

[EvilChief]

Hats off to the young police officer how he kept it professional and polite and executed his job well. ******** driver should have kept his mouth shut and copped the $45 fine, do the crime to the fine ... but he needed to be arrogant about it and got what he deserved.
I sometimes get pretty ****ty with drivers who driver 90 in a 110 zone in the right lane and legally i am not allowed to overtake them ... so what is the point of a dual/overtaking lane if i can use it. A valid fine IMO.

[dogbreath_48]

Someone must have a link to the video somewhere? All this talk and i missed it :(

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by nicholas

hear hear, i agree 100%, as ive said on another forum,
we have same speed limits onas we did 20 years ago with much better roads, much better brakes and handling, much more tar and wider roads even in bush yet we are treated like morons by our own government,
go figure.
we have 1/3 the road toll of 20 years ago at same time we have tripple the amount of cars on road as back then,
we really should be rewarded for being better and safer yet the opposite has happened,

I know what its like driving in hervey bay, alot of the backroads (some dirt some not) are equivalent of 4 lanes wide (2 either way) and yet on most of them you are limited to 60km and sometimes less.

Why not give some of the responsibility back to the motorists?

[northey]

Originally Posted by AshMan

Why not give some of the responsibility back to the motorists?

Yeah I agree but unfortunately most are too stupid or ignorant to even move into the left lane. How could they possibly do something that required a thought?

[ADSXR8]

Originally Posted by AshMan

Thats cool, I was just going by the previous statement.

There are alot of these catch 22 laws though.

I agree. I quote the info from the RTA website, and although friend keepleft clarified this, its wasn't that clear on the website.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

Hats off to the young police officer how he kept it professional and polite and executed his job well. ******** driver should have kept his mouth shut and copped the $45 fine, do the crime to the fine ... but he needed to be arrogant about it and got what he deserved.
I sometimes get pretty ****ty with drivers who driver 90 in a 110 zone in the right lane and legally i am not allowed to overtake them ... so what is the point of a dual/overtaking lane if i can use it. A valid fine IMO.

Evil - You can overtake them in a marked lane to the left, at which point your keeping left:-)

All very untidy nonetheless and the right lane blocker *must* signal in advance and move on over, then cancel the signal once fully in. In EU, people see you approaching and move on over *before* you arrive on the doorstep, usually without causing you to slow down.

THEN, where a slower vehicle approaches an even slower vehicle, AND sights an even faster vehicle on rear approach, the discipline in Germany is that the vehicle will not move out and disrupt the higher flyer.

The higher flyers do their bit by letting slower traffic join the motorway stress free - by indicating well in advance of the interchange on ramp their intention to move into the middle or right lane to let them in, as all should.

Smooth and tidy does it. Some people need to practice this, as clearly some are well meaning but very untidy in their efforts.

It is VERY easy to be lazy and not indicate, or use too few flashes, but to do the indicator job properly we teach folk to indicate before moving the wheel, the blinker then stays on till fully in the next lane. Ditto return. Becomes habit without second thought with time.

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

It is VERY easy to be lazy and not indicate, or use too few flashes, but to do the indicator job properly we teach folk to indicate before moving the wheel, the blinker then stays on till fully in the next lane. Ditto return. Becomes habit without second thought with time.

It's a shame aussies can't practice some patients and discipline such as you have stated above.

God knows that if everyone wasn't so competitive and hell bent on getting where they wanted to go before everyone else, the country would be a much better place, and old senior citizens wouldn't be getting beaten by impatient truck drivers.

[Keepleft]

JUST to update ADSF6's post in relation to NSW penalties, the latest up date was July 2006, I've highlighted adjustments to the first penalty, and at the bottom issued three links, small Pdf files.

Originally Posted by ADSF6

Snip -
In respects to NSW fines,

KEEPING LEFT
Drive in right lane on road with speed-limit over 80 km/h $179 3 points Australian Road Rules
Rule 130 (1)(a)&(2)

Now, $231 and you still earn three demerit points, the same penalty applies when you ignore a keep left unless overtaking sign, REGARDLESS of posted speed limit (or (//) should this be re-introduced), and there IS some RTA desire for NT like application in certain locales. (See link below under 'General').

but also

OVERTAKING
Overtake to left of vehicle $128 2 points Australian Road Rules
Rule 141 (1)

No change, rem - this applies when there is no marked lane to your left.

So, in NSW you are breaking the law undertaking, as much as the person sitting in the right hand lane.

This is the case when there is NO marked traffic lane to the left AND this is a national road rule, hence requirement. That said, on a multi-lane road, freeway et al, you should be in the left lane rather than the middle if it is clear for some distance, and when your otherwise passed by traffic in the left lane.

Links, penalties as applied as at July 2006:
General driving offences:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...ts_general.pdf

Parking offences:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...ts_parking.pdf

Speed:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...s_speeding.pdf

[GasoLane]

The person that thought this up has them back to front!
'Undertaking' on the left with no marked lanes is to me far more dangerous than someone not keeping left on two or moremarked lanes.

It looks like another example of our road rule makers not being in real world... ie:in the office not on the road.

-like the staysafe people that at one stage even suggested banning all overtaking on single lane roads! -

Originally Posted by Keepleft

JUST to update ADSF6's post in relation to NSW penalties, the latest up date was July 2006, I've highlighted adjustments to the first penalty, and at the bottom issued three links, small Pdf files.



Now, $231 and you still earn three demerit points, the same penalty applies when you ignore a keep left unless overtaking sign, REGARDLESS of posted speed limit (or (//) should this be re-introduced), and there IS some RTA desire for NT like application in certain locales. (See link below under 'General').



No change, rem - this applies when there is no marked lane to your left.



This is the case when there is NO marked traffic lane to the left AND this is a national road rule, hence requirement. That said, on a multi-lane road, freeway et al, you should be in the left lane rather than the middle if it is clear for some distance, and when your otherwise passed by traffic in the left lane.

Links, penalties as applied as at July 2006:
General driving offences:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...ts_general.pdf

Parking offences:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...ts_parking.pdf

Speed:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...s_speeding.pdf