Holden want extra 265mil to stay

[ivorya]

Weren't they laughing at Fords Response to pull out just months ago?

Didn't they also say that 'We can make cars here in Australia and still be profitable?'

I'm feel sorry for the workers but Holden can go to hell!!!

[Gadgetman]

This is the best blame the government for us hitting the wall stunt I have ever seen. Well done Holden. Your PR department has taken the easy way out and come out smelling like Roses as well.

[jpd80]

Just an observation but last time Holden received funding, the first thing they did was downsize production and the work force.
No wonder governments are getting gun shy of giving car makers funding to secure jobs and continuing employment in this country.

That is after all why funding was given in the first instance...

[KIWI-1]

Here's an idea.
Take the $1.45 billion required to employ 50,000 people in vehicle and parts manufacturing.
Give 1445 people $1 million per annum as a gift on the condition that they each employ 35 staff.
If they make $1 between them we will be better off as a country than we are at the moment!

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

This is the best blame the government for us hitting the wall stunt I have ever seen. Well done Holden. Your PR department has taken the easy way out and come out smelling like Roses as well.

Government purchases continued to decrease with sales down 27.2 per cent (3461) compared to June 2012.

http://www.fcai.com.au/news/news/201...-for-june-2013-

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by burnz

Government purchases continued to decrease with sales down 27.2 per cent (3461) compared to June 2012.

So the Governments should spend $100 million per month buying cars for the sake of it as well as the $120 million per month supporting the vehicle and parts manufacturing industry?

[burnz]

there buying cars why not home grown?

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by burnz

there buying cars why not home grown?

Sorry, I must have missed the bit where it says:
Government purchases of Australian produced vehicles continued to decrease with sales down 27.2 per cent (3461) compared to June 2012.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Weren't they laughing at Fords Response to pull out just months ago?
Didn't they also say that 'We can make cars here in Australia and still be profitable?'

I'm feel sorry for the workers but Holden can go to hell!!!

That is just a load of rubbish!!

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Do Holden have overseas plants?

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

No one else in the world is pining for Falcodores.

Holden have been assembling (ckd) Caprice in China for years, rebadged as the Buick Park Avenue.
Holden also made the purchase of the dissolved Daewoo Auto Plant, at the time calling it Holden Daewoo, now known as GM Daewoo.

And YES, folks are pining for these cars, especially in the middle east where Commodore/Statesman had huge success.
* Had there not been a fear of cannibalising US product, both our locals could have gone much much further.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just an observation but last time Holden received funding, the first thing they did was downsize production and the work force.
No wonder governments are getting gun shy of giving car makers funding to secure jobs and continuing employment in this country.

That is after all why funding was given in the first instance...

Not true, funding was given with full knowledge restructuring was needed and some employees would lose their jobs.
This was actually one of the conditions placed on Holden by the govt, understanding changes were needed to take the business forward.

[mik]

Originally Posted by imugli

Lorraine Wreford, Donna Bauer, Inga Peulich, Mitch Fifield, Murray Thompson. Know them all personally and know they all work tirelessly in their communities, 7 days a week for 48 weeks of the year (in fact probably more).

No disrespect intended mate and That's good to know there are some hard working pollies out there, and commendable of them, never the less so they should.
A hell of a lot of the population work for about a third or less $$$$ than many of these politicians in jobs with far more back breaking and dangerous work, and also for long hours and with little or no perks compared to those behind a desk with the maximum danger being that of a paper cut .........and yet with all the benefits of a government job.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is just a load of rubbish!!

Sorry to hurt your feelings but you must have missed the video clip of all the Holden Management, on the VF press drive all hovered around the car when the decision to close Fords Door.
Let me say this, they weren't very upset..... quite a few smug/smerking looking faces there.

[KIWI-1]

Mr Marshall ridiculed the negotiations, saying: "The simple fact is there is no signed contract - how can the Premier make a commitment to hand over $50 million of our money without a signed contract?" he said.

[deadfish2]

id prefer the government to spend 2.5 billion to support manufacturing in Australia rather then the 2.5b this soft touch government have blown the budget out on boat people

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by mik

No disrespect intended mate and That's good to know there are some hard working pollies out there, and commendable of them, never the less so they should.
A hell of a lot of the population work for about a third or less $$$$ than many of these politicians in jobs with far more back breaking and dangerous work, and also for long hours and with little or no perks compared to those behind a desk with the maximum danger being that of a paper cut .........and yet with all the benefits of a government job.

I know this is OT, so I apologise in advance to the mods, but I really think this needs to be said.

mik, if you think that being a pollie is such an easy ride and you could do a better job having a say in the running of this country, then why aren't you doing it? There are no educational requirements, you don't need to be street smart, you don't necessarily require any particular experience, so what's stopping you?

It's easy to say that their life is so good and they have it easy if you have never experienced it, but you're not prepared to give it a go? Doesn't make much sense, mate. Just sounds like you're having a whinge, tbh.

Craig H

[UberKnee]

Despite all the publicity, praise and export for the VF it has become obvious through several reports that Holden are still losing or making barely any profit.

GM ******* love Handouts though.

If the gubment going to give them that much money just to stay local then Holden need to focus on the big sellers, people will buy Commodores no matter what, the media and public love them. The big sellers are SUVs thesedays.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by fte50

Holden have been assembling (ckd) Caprice in China for years, rebadged as the Buick Park Avenue.
Holden also made the purchase of the dissolved Daewoo Auto Plant, at the time calling it Holden Daewoo, now known as GM Daewoo.

And YES, folks are pining for these cars, especially in the middle east where Commodore/Statesman had huge success.
* Had there not been a fear of cannibalising US product, both our locals could have gone much much further.

No Falcon/Commodore would cannabalise the US market. Yanks love their 2 door Muscle cars and their 4 door Trucks, Falcadore is neither one of those. 4 door cars dont sell well in the states, people just buy Trucks.

[GTP-814]

tell them to go to their parent company in the US & ask for a free handout. Why should tax payers GIVE the money away.
Different story if it was a loan with interest against a bank guarantee, but Holden would stick their necks on the line

[fte50]

Yes Uberknee in part your correct, but I don't mean taking their truck sales etc, I'm referring to the Victoria, Taurus etc.
And given they love their pickups & stuff, imagine a Pursuit or Maloo ute - they would be all over em.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Sorry, I must have missed the bit where it says:
Government purchases of Australian produced vehicles continued to decrease with sales down 27.2 per cent (3461) compared to June 2012.

Actually, one of the more productive ways governments used to assist Holden and Ford
was to buy up considerable fleets as very low prices, run them for two years and then sell them off
for around the price they were purchased at, giving the public, taxis and rental companies access to
affordable low klm vehicles.

I would much rather the government go to local manufacturers and agree to buy set amounts
of locally produced vehicles each year in preference to all the usual forms of govt assistance.
To me guaranteeing x amount of production each year is of far ,more importance to the
critical mass of car makers and suppliers. Somewhere along the line, governments forgot
how best to support industries without being so out of pocket.

The best way to support manufacturing is to actually buy their products, not subsidise inefficiency.
Buy tons of cars and turn them over every two years and don't be out of pocket.

[borough]

Time to close the doors at Elizabeth for the last time. If the government gives GM $275mill they will be back tomorrow asking for more. I feel for the workers, however once they are in the dole queue I hope they reflect in what a great job the unions have done in their last EBA, pity they don't have jobs anymore.

The government needs to work with Ford and GM to keep their engineering operations open. As for the manufacturing, let it go the way of just about everything else.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by fte50

Not true, funding was given with full knowledge restructuring was needed and some employees would lose their jobs.
This was actually one of the conditions placed on Holden by the govt, understanding changes were needed to take the business forward.

Well judging by the South Australian premier's response, I think he was kept in the dark....

On topic,
This has to be the absolute worst time to play out this stupid melodrama on prime time,
Holden should be channeling all efforts into the VF, so why don't they STFU and just do that.

[eb2fairmont]

Weatherill's a dimwit anyway. He'd have trouble turning the light switch on, let alone find where the state administration centre is.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Weatherill's a dimwit anyway. He'd have trouble turning the light switch on, let alone find where the state administration centre is.

Never the less, funding came from SA on the understanding that employment would be maintained.

It seems funny that not so long ago $275 million in funding help seal plans for a further ten years of production
but now, not so long afterwards, the plan is in doubt unless funding is significantly increased and wages reduced....

What am I missing?

[mik]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

I know this is OT, so I apologise in advance to the mods, but I really think this needs to be said.

mik, if you think that being a pollie is such an easy ride and you could do a better job having a say in the running of this country, then why aren't you doing it? There are no educational requirements, you don't need to be street smart, you don't necessarily require any particular experience, so what's stopping you?

It's easy to say that their life is so good and they have it easy if you have never experienced it, but you're not prepared to give it a go? Doesn't make much sense, mate. Just sounds like you're having a whinge, tbh.

Craig H

Fair comment, and I would love to give it a go if circumstances allowed , I am an oldish fart and I have experienced plenty and been through the school of hard knocks, I reckon I have something to offer ,maybe in the future?
But I stand by what I said , although I should probably should have toned my dissatisfaction with the main decision makers in canberra moreso than the locals, that said, I don't believe it's rocket science, if you continually add extra cost to industry it will begin to fail(already happening), if you instead grease the wheels of industry(cut their costs) they kick on and employ people which keeps people off the dole and with a proper pay packet that then spend a portion of which also helps the economy,
look over the last six years of gov policy.............. it doesn't look like they have done too much greasing on the wheels of industry.
I do still think in general pollies Have a pretty good wicket compared to the average wage earner, overly so in some cases.

[malazn mafia]

Should relabel their ads:

VF Commodore: Shakes Heads, Doesn't Change Minds.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Actually, one of the more productive ways governments used to assist Holden and Ford
was to buy up considerable fleets as very low prices, run them for two years and then sell them off
for around the price they were purchased at, giving the public, taxis and rental companies access to
affordable low klm vehicles.

I would much rather the government go to local manufacturers and agree to buy set amounts
of locally produced vehicles each year in preference to all the usual forms of govt assistance.
To me guaranteeing x amount of production each year is of far ,more importance to the
critical mass of car makers and suppliers. Somewhere along the line, governments forgot
how best to support industries without being so out of pocket.

The best way to support manufacturing is to actually buy their products, not subsidise inefficiency.
Buy tons of cars and turn them over every two years and don't be out of pocket.

Agree ...... instead of just a lump sum hand out, there are just so many basic ways that the billions can be used to assist both the direct manufacturer and all the off shoots at the same time.

Years ago all g'ments, local and national bought Fords and Holdens. Also the larger companies and rentals bought regular amounts. Hertz, Euro etc are overloaded with Hyundai and Nissan .... Telstra use to be all Falcon's, one my of BA's was a Telstra car ..... you knew when was coming towards you because you couldn't turn the lights off!

Every 2 years they were off loaded. Usually for $22,000 drive away price for low K cars through the dealers.

A scheme of buying wouldn't cost the billions they hand out. It keeps the wheels in motion across the board!

Offer way better incentives for Companies to buy Aus cars.

Discount rego by $200 for an Aust car for private buyers, decent incentives for taxis to be LPG Aust cars, ALL g'vment cars to be Aust, private companies to have tax cuts and better tax write off ..... so many other ways but not with brown paper bags through the front door. Give them a billion but ask for cars in return. Buy them!

It is really basic stuff and have never ever understood why they cannot do any of this. So many reps call on our company now with Hyundai's and VW's. Why can't the incentives be indirect rather than just a handout? Get something in return.

I own a company and have company cars. Every single one is a Ford (apart from the 4 tonne truck). BUT there is no incentive to buy them. If there was a tax cut, no GST .... something ...... I wouldn't be tempted to look elsewhere. They can. very very easily and quickly increase sales overnight and it wouldn't cost them any more than they are spending now but there would be a visible return on their investment!!!!!

[Itsme]

Quite agree^^^^
Can never understand why our Federal, State & Local governments do not support our industry, talk is cheap on their part.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well judging by the South Australian premier's response, I think he was kept in the dark....

On topic,
This has to be the absolute worst time to play out this stupid melodrama on prime time,
Holden should be channeling all efforts into the VF, so why don't they STFU and just do that.

You are right about the timing. I think a combination of the reality that Tony Abbott will get in and the Liberals are on a course to close car manufacturing down (no loss of votes to do it), less than great comments from many Americans to the SS styling and the added cost of keeping the Commodore relevant enough to Australians. HQ has got nervous and wants some guarantees of government support.

I think that Mike D here has been told to make it an issue. He comes across as a smart man, so I doubt he would otherwise get involved in this dog and pony show in the middle of the VF launch. He is trying very hard to keep it all low key with the government and the unions, but journalists like Joshua Dowling are never going to leave it that way.