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17-08-2019, 09:32 AM | #781 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I know that you and many of your kind are deaf to this but think of the revenue from a billion cars each year most of it like 90% exported overseas year after year......that is our reality, that is what Aussie Govts have decreed by not getting involved... |
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17-08-2019, 09:40 AM | #782 | |||
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17-08-2019, 09:48 AM | #783 | ||
Shenanigans..............
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Originally Posted by Ben73 Ok back on topic I think I've said this before, but Australian car manufacturing may have stood a better chance if they built Hatchbacks, medium SUVs and 4x4 dual cab utes. That's all the people want these days it seems. Given the other thread, can someone render an AU1 Forte hatchback? Last edited by marty351; 25-11-2019 at 08:24 PM. |
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17-08-2019, 09:48 AM | #784 | |||
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unfortunately people with no vision cannot see beyond the cheap and easy solution. We are at the dawn of a new era with vehicles yet we are no longer at the cutting edge of it... |
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17-08-2019, 09:52 AM | #785 | |||
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different types of different vehicles down the same line . This was once thought impossible until manufacturers standardised their build sequence across different vehicles. Places like Valencia, Spain builds up to six different types of Ford vehicles in varying mixes. The toughest thing for us was FTAs, oh they work well for our neighbors selling us goods but the moment we try to sell any back to them, up go the "legal" taxes and levies that prevent it. It's what killed off the proposal of Focus manufacturing in Australia, the moment they heard about not going to Thailand, they announce those vehicles would be subject to tax. The ink wasn't dry on our FTA and Territory was slapped with a tax in Asian countries. Last edited by jpd80; 17-08-2019 at 09:58 AM. |
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17-08-2019, 04:10 PM | #786 | ||||
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https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...alization-here Also, I was in an idyllic location talking to young mechanical engineering students from the 'States recently, and their future was exciting: electric coming on, job prospects after graduation, all systems go. What can we say to our young who study in this field, apart from "be prepared to travel"? One young Aussie mech engineering graduate I talked to on a ski lift (lifestyles of the rich & Sprintey...) could not see much opportunity after his holiday and would have to go abroad. Quite sad when you think about what we had. We don't really save as consumers on a new Corolla or a new Thai ute, either. We pay top dollar. Quote:
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17-08-2019, 05:28 PM | #787 | ||
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The simple fact is that successive Australian governments, of both colours, have pursued what they believe to be "Free Market" economics. In particular lowering the impediments to imports, and reducing incentives for Australian Manufacturers.
The issue is that practically no other country reciprocates. All our major trading partners protect some or all of their industries in some way. This can be blanket bans or massive tariffs on certain imports, short-selling of their currency (China, and Japan previously) or other sneakier measures such as "luxury goods" taxes. But of course our Pollies are aware of this. There are a few reasons why we still pursue "Free Trade." The "Economy" is essentially divided into 3 sectors, Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary. Primary is basically Mining & Agriculture, Secondary is often referred to as the "Manufacturing" sector, and Tertiary as the "Services" sector. Australia has traditionally had a massive Primary sector, very small Manufacturing sector, but a large Services sector (by GDP). For a long time this actually made us quite unique amongst OECD nations. (Developing nations normally distinguished by big Primary sectors and not much else.) Hence sacrificing our Manufacturing sector, has oft been seen as a relatively small price to pay. Also, many FTAs, and their predecessors, are pursued for Political reasons. Some I agree with, some I don't. Sucking up to America, generally a good idea. Encouraging China's dependence on Maritime trade, is probably currently the greatest protection against war in the Pacific. (Although I sometimes wonder if we aren't feeding the dragon that will one day devour us?) Our perpetual need to promote Australia as some kind of regional power in ASEAN, is I feel a sad joke, but that's just my opinion. And lastly, there is the domestic politics. Traditionally manufacturing workers, especially heavy industry, have been cast-iron Labour voters. So simple fact is that the Libs are quite happy to see those industries dismantled. They certainly see no votes in saving them. The problem for Labor, is the Greens irrational hatred for heavy industry. I don't profess to understand exactly why Labor chooses the precise path it does, but clearly it involves some attempt to garner either green votes, Greens preferences, or Greens Senate support. One of the ironies, is that I consider myself slightly pro-environment, at least in a practical sense. I believe that instead of shipping ore (and coal and LNG) o/s to be smelted in dirty & dangerous smelters. We should build clean, state of the art smelters HERE, and only export the (much smaller) final metal. I also believe that our addiction to cheap disposable Chinese crap is not only wasteful but harmful to the environment. |
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17-08-2019, 07:14 PM | #788 | |||
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17-08-2019, 09:41 PM | #789 | ||
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Great post Dazz completely agree.
In the last election, Joel Fitzgibbon's seat (I think) in Hunter Valley was nearly rolled by One Nation. That area is coal country and currently its very busy with new mines going in. ON and Palmer picked up big in the north QLD seats that lost Labor the unloseable election. These were working class people who might have seen labor representing inner urban greenies instead of them. Kind of makes sense with the outcome of the Button Plan too. So ALP has a problem, how to reconcile the greenies with the mad SJWs with the traditional workers. Here's a link of this problem to be reconciled, for the lulz: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-...y-qld/11051390 If you take a look at One Nation industrial/manufacturing/trade policy, it looks like old school labor, and it mentions protecting industry.
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18-08-2019, 07:44 AM | #790 | ||
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Without deep dive into politics, I believe conservative governments around the world
are now so right wing with policy that it's driving Labor and the Democrats nuts and forcing an over reaction that's far too left (socialist) for most voter's liking. This is the real reason why both will struggle to win respective elections anytime soon.. back on Holden, the only thing they can do is just keep selling whatever products they have with heavier emphasis on SUVs, just simply selling vehicles or getting vehicles that dealers are able to sell to buyers is key here as well as knowing buyer preference, Acadia needs a diesel. It still amazes me that GM will build a Corvette in RHD yet is incapable of giving Holden either a factory RHD Camaro or 4-door Alpha sedan that would be a closer replacement for VF Commodore. This could be a way of restoring the "glue" for sales, a return of high series buyers and their extended families showing renewed interest in Holden products..... |
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18-08-2019, 04:03 PM | #791 | ||
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I wonder in the next coming decades as India becomes more opulent whether GM, Ford etc might regret not having facilities that mass produce right hand vehicles.....
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18-08-2019, 05:23 PM | #792 | ||
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18-08-2019, 06:28 PM | #793 | ||
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Re manufacturing, sadly some don't understand the influence of manufacturing industry as well as they think they do.
The contribution made by the automotive industry to Australia with engineering know-how more than justified the taxpayer funds used to support it. The skill-set involved in the design and execution of automotive electronics packaging translates across to many other disciplines and has done for decades. I think you have to experience it in practice to understand it not just quote some articles in the newspapers. The current international situation demonstrates why some self sufficiency is needed. It is changing and changing fast. Unfortunately Australia's leadership across the political spectrum in the last 20 years has been sorely lacking and now we are reduced to begging the USA to bolster our meagre 28 days of fuel supply reserve. Pathetic. Bill.
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19-08-2019, 09:50 AM | #794 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
They used to make Corollas, but stopped years ago
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19-08-2019, 11:38 AM | #795 | |||
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It definitely helped but wasn't the only factor as I believe a few things happened together protecting Australia from sliding into recession.
1. While mining investment, commodity prices and mining jobs fell during the key period of the global financial crisis, the mining boom placed Australia in a strong economic and fiscal position ahead of the crisis, and helped accelerate the post-crisis recovery. 2. Lending a hand were a low exchange rate and stimulus spending in China, which helped sustain mining exports during the crisis. 3. The government's swift and decisive response was also a key reason Australia did not follow most of the developed world into recession. Quote:
removed all barriers to Toyota just importing them from low cost plants elsewhere, I bet they pocketed all the savings from that too. |
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19-08-2019, 11:07 PM | #796 | ||
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Hi Boys,
The big SUVs killed off the station wagons. my wife has a VE Commodore station wagon and its a great car ( not as good as my Mondeo). we have made some mistakes we as the Politicians and I think one of the biggest mistakes was closing down our Fuel Refinerys and not making our own fuel. Caltex in Kurnell closed down in 2014 and now its a Fuel Import Terminal still run by Caltex of course. We are currently dependent on imports for more then 90% of its fuel needs which is wrong. |
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20-08-2019, 09:02 AM | #797 | |||
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Quote:
I'm not talking about adding a system to an engine & car designed to run on petrol. I'm talking Purpose built.
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20-08-2019, 01:41 PM | #798 | |||
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And for your info the koreans, germans, yanks (legacy workers, not new hires)etc auto workers wages are higher than ours were. If anything with the aussie dollar being historically lower than the US dollar, our wages were a fair bit lower in real terms with the big manufacturers trading in US dollars. With the aussie dollar at 67 cents our wages are cheap for the US companies who still employ people here. One of the biggest issues the industry faced were the size of the factories. The new mega factories can pump out 250,000 + cars a year. Broady was maxed out at around 100,000. |
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20-08-2019, 04:21 PM | #799 | ||
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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21-08-2019, 07:51 PM | #800 | ||
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It is a very simple equation.
(Money Invested by Australian Govt) < ( Money Generated By Industry in the form of Taxation / GST / Fees) The new Equation is (Money from Australian Govt) = (Welfare)
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22-08-2019, 01:30 PM | #801 | ||
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Just look at the revenue drain out of the country,
It should be painfully obvious as to what’s going on when dealers make barely a few hundred dollars off the sale of most new cars, regardless of their origin. The govt happily gives up on price transferrring just to Keep the peace with out major exports of mineral resources. Free trade by a$& |
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27-08-2019, 05:12 PM | #802 | ||
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27-08-2019, 05:45 PM | #803 | ||
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Cost of doing business in Australia is not just high wages, it is also:-
IR laws 3 levels of government red tape meaning multiple bureaucrats with many powers wanting time and money. High taxes at state and federal level (company tax, payroll tax, capitol gains tax,.....) All of the above caused me to set up an office in Singapore. Had no choice. With regard to making cars in Australia, it does not make sense as the unit cost of production is far to high. we all end up paying a lot more in subsidies or purchase price and this cost is reflected throughout the economy so we also pay in other ways (cost to business for vehicles is higher). Trade between countries means that we export what we are good at and import products that another country is good at. We export biomedical, IT, coal, iron ore, rare earths, etc. Government subsidies for any industry have never worked (remember the government buying car companies in UK). Unfortunately bureaucrats never send money efficiently and it costs all of us (yes, I have worked for state & federal departments before I set up my own business so I have seen it first hand). The car industry was simply not viable - volumes far too small. Better off now being a design centre and importer. |
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02-09-2019, 07:23 PM | #804 | ||
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It continues...........
https://www.caradvice.com.au/788729/...olden-equinox/ "Holden is hoping a simplified range will give its Equinox mid-sized SUV a sales boost for the 2020 model year."...................."increase from $27,990 drive-away to more than $32,000 before on-road costs with the revised line-up."
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03-09-2019, 08:22 AM | #805 | |||
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03-09-2019, 08:36 AM | #806 | ||
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they will drop them to $27,990 soon enough after just don't be a muppet that buys one at full price
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03-09-2019, 08:37 AM | #807 | |||
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They drop the poverty spec models which have specifications that nobody wants, move the vehicle up-market to include stuff as standard that buyers want. They are not going to sell the extra fruit at the previous lower price, they are not Santa Claus. Result, they 'increase' sales of specific models. Simple, really. Just smoke, mirrors and creative accounting. Did some-one mention 'customers and buyers' ? Oops, forgot about that. |
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03-09-2019, 10:04 AM | #808 | ||
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Ford drops the entry level Fiesta and increases the ST by 6k and it's marketing genius, Holden drops its entry level SUV and ups the price of its upper spec model and it's good luck with that...
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03-09-2019, 11:43 AM | #809 | |||
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and included more equipment as standard on their high spec offerings, covered by increasing prices. Is any of that marketing genius or simply offering products with good ROI in markets that "don't matter" to the vehicles' survival? I don't expect either modes to drag that many sales but what those moves do is strengthen resolve that cheap, down market vehicles have no place in our market anymore, vehicles must be well appointed and more importantly, what buyers actually want. Holden still doing the deep dive into discounting its vehicles to move stock, getting those discounts out of Ford is impossible, it's like blood from a turnip. Last edited by jpd80; 03-09-2019 at 11:53 AM. |
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03-09-2019, 12:47 PM | #810 | |||
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