Covid 19 -

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Protest or run amok? I've actually lost sight of their message. Actually I didn't even realise there was going to be a protest until I saw it on the news.

What are they after now? We have 25kms, unlimited exercise time, you can meet a friend to exercise etc. Tomorrow we may have further easing of restrictions. Other states that have had very few cases for a LONG time are only just beginning to open right up to everything.

If we can get this to manageable state, we get Melb Cup, Boxing Day test and Christmas opened. And early next year we get Aus Open and F1. There is a lot at stake to get this right NOW.

Seriously are you really saying these protests are jeopardising restrictions that can be lifted?
If that is the case then Chairman Dan should have been serious with the BLM protest march to set a proper example..

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Seriously are you really saying these protests are jeopardising restrictions that can be lifted?

No, not at all. Actually I think outdoor gatherings are quite low risk. What I'd like to know is, what is it that they want? I kinda got it with the first protest, but its not clear to me now.

It "seems" like they want the gov to open right up (something that other states have still yet fully done), or just vent their personal issues at someone else. IMHO, a cautious approach to opening up now will mean we can reap some big rewards in the next 6 months. Open up too quick and we might end up having some of those events with zero crowd.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

No, not at all. Actually I think outdoor gatherings are quite low risk. What I'd like to know is, what is it that they want? I kinda got it with the first protest, but its not clear to me now.

I honestly think people are just fed up with the length of the lock down and the way the government has mishandled this pandemic so they are venting their frustration.
I don't agree with the protests but can certainly understand the public frustration.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

From a pretty neutral (centre?) media outlet.

The facts don't support claims of a Brett Sutton cover-up over emails

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...up-over-emails

The Guardian neutral/centre???? yeah, nowhere near.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

and the way the government has mishandled this pandemic

another common phrase....

if you look at just about every other country with cities with serious outbreaks, the methods are the same or worse.

its just easy to criticise from the cheap seats but how many people would be willing to sign their name on some of the decisions that need to be made by a government?

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Me.. whinging about the Victorian government COVID restrictions?? Show me where I have done that?

Sure, it's been very difficult and frustrating at times, but I accepted the fact that it is what we all have to do so that we can get back to somewhat of a normality in VIC. But what has been more frustrating than the VIC restrictions is seeing brain dead, moronic f**kwits, like the above mob, put everything that others have worked hard for, just so they can get their 15 seconds of fame on social media and on the TV news.

It's ok Hippo, you "big man", you and your brain dead, moronic f**kwit mobs can continue with your "plight", you won't get a grain of sympathy to your "cause" from me. Quite the opposite effect actually.

What you and your "freedom" mobs have proven during this pandemic is that you are all a bunch of self-centred, self-entitled, self-conscious, self-indulgent brain dead, moronic f**kwits who are only concerned about one person. Yourself.

I'll endorse this ( but I would have preferred the absence of expletives).

The difficulty, as I see it, is that freedom of expression means that any sub-normal person (by which I mean anyone, who by their position clearly does not comprehend how this virus could decimate both our population and economy in that order) can have their say, even if that means that a totally unreasonable course of activity is encouraged.

I'll take this opportunity to commend the moderators and chairman for their forbearance in allowing a wide range of opinion to be seen - even if many of them are beyond the pale.

A couple of calculations:

At the moment about 8.5 million citizens/residents of the USA have been tested as positive of Covid 19. That is 1 in about 50 people who are living there. Since there are many more infected that are not detected the actual figure is lower than 1 in 50. Similar calculations can be done for many "western" countries in Europe with figures that are not quite so bad.

In Australia the same calculation provides a figure of 1 in 900 or thereabouts. In Victoria the figure is 1 in 320 or thereabouts. That means that, right now, any individual living in Victoria has something more than 6 times less chance of contracting the virus that would be the case if living in the USA

The USA has not seen anything like the restrictions that we have "endured".

Now the question I ask is " how many of the nay-sayers would have preferred to be living in the USA over the previous 7 months?(and if they would then:Why don't you move there?) Or do you prefer to live in Australia - and particularly in Victoria, where we are dealing with the potential for an outbreak that could see our state figure rise?"

My position is that the Victorian Government, in the face of opportunistic private enterprise companies accepting contracts that were clearly beyond their capabilities, have (almost) gotten us to a position where we ALL may be able to enjoy a greater degree of "normality" except for the problem of people who put their personal enjoyment in front of the welfare of the greater community.

I do not know how the current Victorian opposition might have reacted, but the attacks by Mr O'Brien, assisted by various members of the federal government do not give me any kind of feeling that they might have done better.

Cheers

[russellw]

Let's put this another way.

If you are an adult living in the USA you have a 10.9 in 10,000 chance of dying from COVID19. On the face of it, they aren't bad odds and they are better than Belgium (11.4/10,000) and Peru (13.4/10,000) but worse than Italy (10/10,000), the UK (8.6/10,000) and even India 1.1/10,000). However, in Australia those odds are far better again at 0.5/10,000 which makes the USA 20x worse than Australia.

Indeed, before the Victorian second wave mess, we were about line-ball with New Zealand where your chance of dying is 0.07/10,000 which is 7x better than where we are now but also 160x better than the USA.

Victoria hasn't fared as well as the rest of the country with the odds of dying here (counting adults only) 1.66/10,000 which is 3.3x the National average and both the infection rate per 100k (413) and the CMR (4.02%) are worse than the National average of 152 and 3.3% respectively - bearing in mind that the National average is being dragged down by the Victorian numbers anyway.

Even then, your chance of dying from COVID19 in the USA is 6.6x greater than Victoria.

That got me thinking about the rest of Australia and the numbers are surprising.
Victoria has had 74% of all Australian cases and 90.3% of all Australian deaths which shows just how much impact this 2nd wave has really had.

Looking at the remainder of the country in isolation (pun not intended) the figures are much happier:

7,148 cases or 54.4 cases per 100k adults (NZ is 52.44);
88 deaths or 0.673 deaths per 100k adults (NZ is 0.682); and
a CMR of 1.231% - even better than the 1.3% for New Zealand.

Let's pause a moment to compare those case numbers with a few other countries:

The USA has 4,184 cases per 100k which is 27x more than the Australian average, 10x more than Victoria and 76x more than the rest of Australia!

The UK has 1,598 cases per 100k which is 10.4x more than the Australian average, 3.8x more than Victoria and 29x more than the rest of Australia.

While we could argue that identified case numbers depend on the volume of testing, the number of deaths is a (largely) inescapable fact so if we look at deaths per 100k of total population we see that:
Australia has 3.55 per 100k;
Italy 61.29 (17.3x);
Argentina 62.70 (17.6x);
UK 65.65 (18.5x);
Mexico 68.17 (19.2x);
USA 69.26 (19.5x);
Ecuador 71.0 (20x);
Chile 72.42 (20.4x);
Brazil 73.64 (20.7x);
Spain 74.32 (20.9x)
Bolivia 75.53 (21.3x);
Belgium 91.35 (25.7x); and
Peru 103.21 (29x).

There are some (non-African) countries doing better than our 3.55:
British Virgin island (N America) 3.308;
Iceland (Europe) 3.224;
Antigua (N America) 3.08;
Pakistan (Asia) 3.04;
Nepal (Asia) 2.845;
Venezuela (S America) 2.669;
Latvia (Europe) 2.651;
Slovakia (Europe) 2.454;
Barbados (N America) 2.436;
Nicaragua (N America) 2.340;
Cyprus (Europe) 2.071;
Haiti (N America) 2.016;
Yemen (Asia) 2.008;
Myanmar (Asia) 1.908;
Uzbekistan (Asia) 1.629;
Uruguay (S America) 1.526;
Syria (Asia) 1.509;
Hong Kong (Asia) 1.401;
Japan (Asia) 1.339;
Cuba (N America) 1.130;
S Korea (Asia) 0.887;
Brunei (Asia) 0.864;
Tajikistan (Asia) 0.849;
Malaysia (Asia) 0.661;
Curaçao (S America) 0.609;
New Zealand (Oceania) 0.518; and
Singapore (Asia) 0.479.

.... although not many better than the 'rest of Australia excluding Victoria' 0.461)

Fiji (Oceania) 0.223;
Thailand (Asia) 0.085;
PNG (Oceania) 0.082;
Sri Lanka (Asia) 0.065;
Vietnam (Asia) 0.036; and
Taiwan (Asia) 0.029.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Victorian opposition seeking Sutto emails now...

Victorian Opposition asks Legal Services Commissioner to investigate lawyers over hotel quarantine inquiry documents

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...wyers/12806222

of course the Victorian Opposition Leader (what ever his name is) is a highly believable little character. He would have to be the worst they have put up so far as their leader, really inappropriate commentary every time he opens his mouth

He is so desperate to be elected and so desperate to make Andrews & Co look bad he will say anything, anything for a headline grab. He reminds me of the Opposition Leader in NZ who tried the same attack on Adern and look at how well that went for her

People want to see bipartisanship in times like this, not attack dogs, but it seems that attack is all that side of politics can do and it seems to be worldwide

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Me.. whinging about the Victorian government COVID restrictions?? Show me where I have done that?

Sure, it's been very difficult and frustrating at times, but I accepted the fact that it is what we all have to do so that we can get back to somewhat of a normality in VIC. But what has been more frustrating than the VIC restrictions is seeing brain dead, moronic f**kwits, like the above mob, put everything that others have worked hard for, just so they can get their 15 seconds of fame on social media and on the TV news.

It's ok Hippo, you "big man", you and your brain dead, moronic f**kwit mobs can continue with your "plight", you won't get a grain of sympathy to your "cause" from me. Quite the opposite effect actually.

What you and your "freedom" mobs have proven during this pandemic is that you are all a bunch of self-centred, self-entitled, self-conscious, self-indulgent brain dead, moronic f**kwits who are only concerned about one person. Yourself.

agree 100% - well said

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by russellw

Not up to them - it's up to the inquiry as to whether they want to see them. On the plus side, O'Brien and his negativity has been the best thing for ensuring no change of Government in this State in the foreseeable future.

quoted for truth. I didn't read this post before posting mine, well said Russ

Originally Posted by russellw

So. Let me get this clear. You are happily advocating breaking the law on the simple basis that doing something, no matter how imbecilic, is better than doing nothing?

So, in your mind, it was acceptable to attack the police (and their horses) because the looney fringe / protesters against anything feel a bit miffed about not being able to gather in large groups to drink their soy lattes? Assuming of course that any of them could actually afford one in the first place.

They want to be thankful that I wasn't in charge of the countermeasures.

No one has enjoyed the situation we find ourselves in. It's been tough both socially and economically and we are all looking forward to it ending or at least returning to something closer to normal but we wouldn't be even close to ending restrictions if the measures that have been taken so far hadn't been in place.

I'm going to break my own T&C's here because I believe that the following needs to be said.

So, here's a tip. You and your rabid looney mates can take your so-called civil liberties and move somewhere else where they might be more readily accepted. Like maybe one of the communist ruled nations or even somewhere with armed conflict so you can see first hand what deprivation of freedom is really about.

Attitudes like yours make me ashamed to be Australian.

and again, I agree 100% - well said

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

or just people with issues using this an excuse to run amok?

I reckon this is the most accurate

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by AlanD

My position is that the Victorian Government, in the face of opportunistic private enterprise companies accepting contracts that were clearly beyond their capabilities, have (almost) gotten us to a position where we ALL may be able to enjoy a greater degree of "normality" except for the problem of people who put their personal enjoyment in front of the welfare of the greater community.

The governments own recently enacted legislation clearly states you cannot contract yourself out of responsibility. To hand it over to "opportunistic private enterprise" without checking to see they were capable, is a failure of the entity contracting the work out.

If any of the nasty "opportunistic private enterprises" out in the mainstream
contracted out with your level of due diligence, workplace safety comes knocking on the door with jail terms when clearly foreseeable eventualities result.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by AlanD

My position is that the Victorian Government, in the face of opportunistic private enterprise companies accepting contracts that were clearly beyond their capabilities, have (almost) gotten us to a position where we ALL may be able to enjoy a greater degree of "normality" except for the problem of people who put their personal enjoyment in front of the welfare of the greater community.

I'm tending to think that this will be the escape hatch that the inquiry will deliver. Easy target, mention some recommendations to reform the industry, job done.

[Itsme]

Deleted

[FairmontGS]

Melbourne coronavirus restrictions announcement delayed by Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews after COVID-19 outbreak

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...steps/12811116

[Tickford.]

The same "journalist" who had before asked Andrews why he could not change the date of the Road Map to an earlier date, today asks why Andrews could not stick to the original date of the Road Map?

This bitch fight led by the PM against Andrews is a real comedy show. It's hilarious even.

Divide and conquer tactics starting to work against the PM's mob. It's certainly working for me. And I never voted for Andrews to be Premier. But I will 100% vote for him if he runs against Morrison for PM!

edit: I have, and urge anyone who would like, to please sign the petition below by the Australian Parliament. The media needs to be held to account.

Petition Reason
Our democracy depends on diverse sources of reliable, accurate and independent news. But media ownership is becoming more concentrated alongside new business models that encourage deliberately polarising and politically manipulated news. We are especially concerned that Australia’s print media is overwhelmingly controlled by News Corporation, founded by Fox News billionaire Rupert Murdoch, with around two-thirds of daily newspaper readership. This power is routinely used to attack opponents in business and politics by blending editorial opinion with news reporting. Australians who hold contrary views have felt intimidated into silence. These facts chill free speech and undermine public debate. Powerful monopolies are also emerging online, including Facebook and Google. We are deeply concerned by: mass-sackings of news journalists; digital platforms impacting on media diversity and viability; Nine Entertainment's takeover of the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald; News Corp’s acquisition (and then closure) of more than 200 smaller newspapers, undermining regional and local news; attempts to replace AAP Newswire with News Corp’s alternative; and relentless attacks on the ABC’s independence and funding. Professional journalists further have legitimate concerns around unjust searches, potential prosecution, whistle-blower protection, official secrecy and dispute resolution that should be comprehensively addressed. Only a Royal Commission would have the powers and independence to investigate threats to media diversity, and recommend policies to ensure optimal diversity across all platforms to help guarantee our nation’s democratic future.

Petition Request
We therefore ask the House to support the establishment of such a Royal Commission to ensure the strength and diversity of Australian news media.

https://www.aph.gov.au/petition_list?id=EN1938

[Trevor 57]

Interesting all the Right politicians, business leaders, industry leaders and some media demanding the reopening of Victoria. Will they put their hands up to take responsibility if Andrews opens early and we get a 3rd wave - HELL NO!!! they will run for cover. They just need to shut the **** up

Andrews did comment this morning about all these 'health experts' making comment - he said 'they are outside the tent', they have no idea what is going on inside the tent" or words to that effect - so he is also saying that they should shut the **** up

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Interesting all the Right politicians, business leaders, industry leaders and some media demanding the reopening of Victoria. Will they put their hands up to take responsibility if Andrews opens early and we get a 3rd wave - HELL NO!!! they will run for cover. They just need to shut the **** up

Andrews did comment this morning about all these 'health experts' making comment - he said 'they are outside the tent', they have no idea what is going on inside the tent" or words to that effect - so he is also saying that they should shut the **** up

Everyone is entitled to express an opinion after all we do live in a free democracy, at least I thought we did.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Andrews did comment this morning about all these 'health experts' making comment - he said 'they are outside the tent', they have no idea what is going on inside the tent" or words to that effect - so he is also saying that they should shut the **** up

I think that was Sutto Trev, but I agree, they do look and sound alike.

Meanwhile, here's Andrews' own Kevin Rudd/Tony Abbott

Jenny Mikakos accuses Daniel Andrews of 'paralysis' as Melbourne's coronavirus reopening announcement is postponed

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...tions/12811188

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT October 24th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

15 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.291% while active cases rise to 1,413. NSW recorded 5 cases, WA 4 with the balance in Victoria.

The Victorian State 14 day moving average is down to 5.21 with metro falling to 4.6 (9 unknown) and regional still at 0.2 with no unknown cases (including today). Victoria reported 7 new cases for the last 24 hours.

11 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.293% and active cases rise to 74.

The UK had a higher 23,012 new cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 174 deaths.

Just under 83k new cases in the USA yesterday and 903 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.621% and active cases up to 32.2% with the raw numbers rising and now over 2.8M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
It's the weekend so case numbers should be down a bit today -

Global deaths pass 1.15M with the last 50k taking 9 days;
Global cases set a new daily high of 490,737 (23/10);
North America set a new daily case high of 94,682 (23/10);
Colombia passes 1M cases;
The USA completes 132M, India 102M, Turkey 13M, and Czechia 2M tests;

Latvia (259)
Lithuania (474)
Serbia (757) - 31% up on the high yesterday
North Macedonia (647)
Luxembourg (862) - 30% up on the previous high
Greece (945)
Malaysia (1,228) - 41% up on the previous high
Bosnia (1,265) - now 5 days in a row
Georgia (1,941) - now 5 days in a row
Slovenia (1,961)
Croatia (2,242) - 33% up on the high yesterday
Austria (3,614) - 41% up on the high yesterday
Slovakia (2,890)
Portugal (3,669)
Belgium (17,568)
Italy (19,644); and
France (45,422) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Everyone is entitled to express an opinion after all we do live in a free democracy, at least I thought we did.

A free democracy. Freedom of speech. Novel concepts.

The reality is that we are actually a society where public opinion (and thus votes) are driven in whatever direction the relatively narrow media ownership chooses to drive it.

It's been getting progressively worse these last two decades and I'm not all that sure that we are that far removed from the 'only tell what we want you to know' mantra of State owned media organisations with the only obvious differences being that (1) we don't actually always know who is pulling the strings and what their agenda is; and (2) the fringe elements are still allowed their say even if it to a tiny percentage of the population who are possibly certifiable anyway.

Watch the 5 main news channels in Victoria tonight (7,9,10, ABC, SBS) and see what their slant will be on the Andrews postponement decision. In most cases their bias will be in the wording or the screen caption supporting the story. It's easy to do like this:

Supportive (of which I don't reckon you'll hear much): "Andrew's puts health concerns above politics to defer announcement"

Mildly supportive or uncertain: "Andrew's bold move to defer announcement" (replace bold with surprising etc.) - you could easily make it negative by changing bold to something less flattering.

Mildly against: "No relief for Victorians as Andrew's defers announcement"

Strongly against:"Victorians remain in lockdown as Andrew's defers announcement"

[T3rminator]

Interesting presser this morning. I don't think a 24hr wait is really that much of a problem after so many months of lock down. Apparently some business leaders are reporting that that every day of lock down results in "thousands of jobs" being lost, is there actually any evidence of this? Are businesses laying off thousands of staff every single day?

I feel he needs to at least give up something even if the results aren't flash. Possibly remove the 25km restriction, and allow small retailers, not seated in malls like Chaddy, to reopen with a covid safe plan. Otherwise....

I don't even want to think about what would happen if the northern suburbs come back with results showing clusters from 3 or 4 different sources......we might be in for an interesting week.

Interesting sledge from Jenny Mikakos - "paralysis in decision-making". This coming from someone who said the Cedars meat outbreak was "handled perfectly". . She was the weakest link...goodbye. Who wants to make a bet she will appear on Sky News for an interview very soon?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by russellw

A free democracy. Freedom of speech. Novel concepts.

The reality is that we are actually a society where public opinion (and thus votes) are driven in whatever direction the relatively narrow media ownership chooses to drive it.

It's been getting progressively worse these last two decades and I'm not all that sure that we are that far removed from the 'only tell what we want you to know' mantra of State owned media organisations with the only obvious differences being that (1) we don't actually always know who is pulling the strings and what their agenda is; and (2) the fringe elements are still allowed their say even if it to a tiny percentage of the population who are possibly certifiable anyway.

Watch the 5 main news channels in Victoria tonight (7,9,10, ABC, SBS) and see what their slant will be on the Andrews postponement decision. In most cases their bias will be in the wording or the screen caption supporting the story. It's easy to do like this:

Supportive (of which I don't reckon you'll hear much): "Andrew's puts health concerns above politics to defer announcement"

Mildly supportive or uncertain: "Andrew's bold move to defer announcement" (replace bold with surprising etc.) - you could easily make it negative by changing bold to something less flattering.

Mildly against: "No relief for Victorians as Andrew's defers announcement"

Strongly against:"Victorians remain in lockdown as Andrew's defers announcement"

Watched it and thought it amusing the journo's going on about Andrew's not announcing easing of restrictions in Victoria. He did right at the start with more regional restrictions lifted regarding gyms, weddings, churches and a couple smaller points.

I think he is handling these journo's rather well and answered the same stupid question several times over particularly from the idiot Rachel Baxeldale (from The Australian) who keeps banging on about the 25km travel limit that she is forced to endure.

[tweeked]

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Some interesting figures here on "excess mortality" (comparing total deaths to see if more people are actually dying) UK is interesting, I thought the new interpretation of a covid death was the reason for their massive shift in the death rate. In the first wave death form all causes was up over 100% (doubled), yet now with well over double the cases over a long period of time the overall death rate is only up 3%.

Something doesn't stack up, these sort of numbers point to something massively different in the outcome of contracting the virus, why is the medical fraternity mute on this? Are they holding back to protect us again? Just like "masks don't help", are they worried that the population wont take the virus as seriously if the mention these figures?

I think looking at these we can see the different way of counting deaths in the UK is not the reason for the massively lower numbers. It is just nowhere near as many people are dying from it.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by russellw

A free democracy. Freedom of speech. Novel concepts.

The reality is that we are actually a society where public opinion (and thus votes) are driven in whatever direction the relatively narrow media

ownership chooses to drive it.

It's been getting progressively worse these last two decades and I'm not all that sure that we are that far removed from the 'only tell what we

want you to know' mantra of State owned media organisations with the only obvious differences being that (1) we don't actually always know who is

pulling the strings and what their agenda is; and (2) the fringe elements are still allowed their say even if it to a tiny percentage of the

population who are possibly certifiable anyway.

Bang on. In 2016 Australia was ranked 4th in the world for media concentration when accounting for all platforms. China ranked 1, surprise surprise . New Zealand was right up there as well (can't recall the actual rank), which was surprising. Also interesting was that the US was ranked quite low, but after spending some time there I'm not surprised, they have hundreds of channels all driving different views, so at least viewers there have a choice to listen to different narratives and make up their own mind. I can't find the link to that study though

This study indicates we were ranked 3rd in Newspaper ownership in 2011, with a relatively high HHI trend increasing.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...dustry-squeeze

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Some interesting figures here on "excess mortality" (comparing total deaths to see if more people are actually dying) UK is interesting, I thought the new interpretation of a covid death was the reason for their massive shift in the death rate. In the first wave death form all causes was up over 100% (doubled), yet now with well over double the cases over a long period of time the overall death rate is only up 3%.

Something doesn't stack up, these sort of numbers point to something massively different in the outcome of contracting the virus, why is the medical fraternity mute on this? Are they holding back to protect us again? Just like "masks don't help", are they worried that the population wont take the virus as seriously if the mention these figures?

I think looking at these we can see the different way of counting deaths in the UK is not the reason for the massively lower numbers. It is just nowhere near as many people are dying from it.

I've noticed this, and I reckon its a combination of things. We now have a better knowledge of this virus and are better equipped to deal with it. I wonder how many patients were mistreated in the first wave that contributed to deaths. With varying restrictions in place, unlike the first wave, hospitals aren't being overwhelmed...yet.

But I honestly believe the biggest contributing factor is that the virus has mutated, as most viruses do. It has become more infections but less potent. Virus wants to spread, not kill. It can't spread if it kills the host. But who wants to take the gamble and let it rip?

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by russellw

Strongly against: "Victorians remain in lockdown as Andrew's defers announcement"

One better: ANGER AND DESPAIR: Andrews crushes hopes for eased restrictions

In capitals too!

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6204444355001

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Interesting sledge from Jenny Mikakos - "paralysis in decision-making". This coming from someone who said the Cedars meat outbreak was "handled perfectly". . She was the weakest link...goodbye. Who wants to make a bet she will appear on Sky News for an interview very soon?

A saying comes to mind: "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

Add corrupt - hideous, and the fury is multiplied.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

One better: ANGER AND DESPAIR: Andrews crushes hopes for eased restrictions

In capitals too!

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6204444355001

I'll take the points anyway. They would have been on my short list for the most rabidly anti-sentiment.

[Citroënbender]

This photo is begging for the slightest of photoshopping. :-)

Originally Posted by tweeked

Something doesn't stack up, these sort of numbers point to something massively different in the outcome of contracting the virus…

I think several factors, not excluding possible mutations. The prevalence of true, textbook, hysterical illness (quite capable of approaching fatality) as a factor earlier is an elephant in the room, and possibly the notional abandonment of sick; one readily gained the impression that in situations like Newmarch House, medical staff had largely “given up” on a number of people and were more focused on their death than saving them. Somehow the disease has mostly escaped critiquing of the psychology which inevitably shadows any serious illness.

In contrast to how the nation is staring down coronavirus, it’s interesting to note the Government is OK with an aged care (in-home care) shortfall of sixteen thousand allocations. I’d like to see/hear them say it’s just fine to be 16K beds short of readiness for an epidemic.