Covid 19 -

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

As the vaccine race is entering the home straight I thought i would put up something to identify the front runners and monitor their progress. I'll add to this as the race progresses. Feel free to add if you wish.
Here's the leaders
AZD 1222 Developed by Oxford University/ Astrazeneca, currently in Stage 3 trials in multiple sites worldwide and already in mass production in India. Expected delivery date late Oct. This vaccine is manufactured using a modified Adinovirus, conventional tech used with many other vaccines.
MRNA 1273 Moderna/NIH, At a similar stage to the Oxford one but mass production may not be at the same level. Expected delivery date is Nov/Dec. This vaccine uses the new RNA technology
BNT 162B2 Biontech/Pfizer/Fosun Another vaccine well into its Stage 3 trials. based on RNA tech and committed to a Dec delivery.
All the above require two shots approx four weeks apart.

The next two, Russian and Chinese products, skipped Stage 3 trials which are normally needed to get regulatory approval and went straight to wider distribution
Gamaleya/Sputnik 5 This is the one Putin's daughter got, a conventional vaccine based on the Adinovirus. Wider distribution in Russia starts this week.
Sinovac This is the main Chinese product although I think they actually have two at the same stage. They started vaccinating their military some time ago.

Uni of Qld/ CSL Not up with the leaders but still in contention. Another RNA based vaccine with CSL gearing up to manufacture in Australia.
Merck Trailing the field, not even at stage 1 trials yet but worth a mention as they have an oral vaccine in development; good news for those who don't like jabs.

Mass production is the big question. Very few places have the capacity to take on the manufacture of billions of doses of these vaccines. India is one of the places where large numbers of vaccines are already produced and has started to produce the Oxford vaccine in large quantity. I imagine the political pressure to have something ready before Nov 3 is intense; if somehow it goes badly well it won't matter because the election will be over by then.

What's going on with Moderna and it's vaccine? Seems their share price has been in steady decline since July, why are their executives selling their shares? I'm reading their vaccine has infringed on an exisiting patent.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by ute83

Lets not forget that the second wave is entirely of Dandrews' own making.

Let's not forget that we have already debunked that myth multiple times over.

The independent polls seem to be suggesting that most Victorians are reasonably OK with the approach being taken which did come as a bit of a surprise.

I do expect the targets to be modified as we proceed because thus far in Australia only the NT and ACT have had > 30 case free days so it may well be the impossible dream.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by russellw

Let's not forget that we have already debunked that myth multiple times over.

The independent polls seem to be suggesting that most Victorians are reasonably OK with the approach being taken which did come as a bit of a surprise.

I do expect the targets to be modified as we proceed because thus far in Australia only the NT and ACT have had > 30 case free days so it may well be the impossible dream.

The polls also said Hillary Clinton was going to be the next president of the USA and Brexit wasn't going to pass

Like Mark McGowan and his '90% approval rating' with a sample size of under 1000 people.

What was the sample size, what are the demographics who participated, what are their professions and where do they live.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The polls also said Hillary Clinton was going to be the next president of the USA and Brexit wasn't going to pass

Like Mark McGowan and his '90% approval rating' with a sample size of under 1000 people.

What was the sample size, what are the demographics who participated, what are their professions and where do they live.

You are clearly in the wrong line of business, hit the streets my man.

Oh wait, give it a few more weeks.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by russellw

Let's not forget that we have already debunked that myth multiple times over.

Is that you Dan? So an alternate view is discussed and you call it a busted myth, I don't think so. He was in charge of that dogs breakfast. The responsibility stops with him he has said on numerous occasions.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

You are clearly in the wrong line of business, hit the streets my man.

Oh wait, give it a few more weeks.

For sure - I need a talkback drive show on AM radio and then a show on Sky News at 8PM

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

For sure - I need a talkback drive show on AM radio and then a show on Sky News at 8PM

Time for a Franco Cozzo podcast.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by russellw

The independent polls seem to be suggesting that most Victorians are reasonably OK with the approach being taken which did come as a bit of a surprise.

Yes I am aware of these polls and I am embarrassed by this. But all the average joes that I have spoken to point to a different feeling amongst the people.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

As the vaccine race is entering the home straight I thought i would put up something to identify the front runners and monitor their progress. I'll add to this as the race progresses. Feel free to add if you wish.
Here's the leaders
AZD 1222 Developed by Oxford University/ Astrazeneca, currently in Stage 3 trials in multiple sites worldwide and already in mass production in India. Expected delivery date late Oct. This vaccine is manufactured using a modified Adinovirus, conventional tech used with many other vaccines.
MRNA 1273 Moderna/NIH, At a similar stage to the Oxford one but mass production may not be at the same level. Expected delivery date is Nov/Dec. This vaccine uses the new RNA technology
BNT 162B2 Biontech/Pfizer/Fosun Another vaccine well into its Stage 3 trials. based on RNA tech and committed to a Dec delivery.
All the above require two shots approx four weeks apart.

The next two, Russian and Chinese products, skipped Stage 3 trials which are normally needed to get regulatory approval and went straight to wider distribution
Gamaleya/Sputnik 5 This is the one Putin's daughter got, a conventional vaccine based on the Adinovirus. Wider distribution in Russia starts this week.
Sinovac This is the main Chinese product although I think they actually have two at the same stage. They started vaccinating their military some time ago.

Uni of Qld/ CSL Not up with the leaders but still in contention. Another RNA based vaccine with CSL gearing up to manufacture in Australia.
Merck Trailing the field, not even at stage 1 trials yet but worth a mention as they have an oral vaccine in development; good news for those who don't like jabs.

Mass production is the big question. Very few places have the capacity to take on the manufacture of billions of doses of these vaccines. India is one of the places where large numbers of vaccines are already produced and has started to produce the Oxford vaccine in large quantity. I imagine the political pressure to have something ready before Nov 3 is intense; if somehow it goes badly well it won't matter because the election will be over by then.

Here is one being developed in Adelaide at flinders, and was one of the first to successfully complete phase 1 human trials, but now being hampered by lack of federal funding..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nin...0-d750342b1068

Federal govt tipping $10m into Oxford in the UK, but nothing in to a home grown product? Doesn't make sense to me.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Romulus

What's going on with Moderna and it's vaccine? Seems their share price has been in steady decline since July, why are their executives selling their shares? I'm reading their vaccine has infringed on an exisiting patent.

In July Moderna lost a case where they challenged the patent held by another company saying that the patented process should be unpatentable. As far as I know Moderna never had a patent of their own on this particular process. I think they did that to try and avoid having to pay royalties to that company if their vaccine was successful. However they lost and now the royalty payments will take a big slice out of their profits.

The fall in the share price could also be caused by rumours about how well their vaccine really works. However the US govt just gave them $1.5billion so maybe not. I think that Moderna is one of the companies that has a deal with Bill Gates to use the production facilities he has set up for mass production. The secret to making big profits out of this virus will be the capacity to produce huge amounts of vaccine as quickly as possible.

Are you sure that it is their own executives that are dumping stock?

[russellw]

44 new cases for Australia and 9 deaths sees the CMR rise to 2.895% while active drop to 2,957. NSW recorded 4 cases; Queensland 2, WA 1 with the balance in Victoria.

4 new cases and zero deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.351% and active cases rise to 118.

The UK had 2,948 new cases yesterday and as we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines we are going to ignore those figures.

Just over 31k new cases in the USA yesterday and 430 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.991% and active cases remain at 39.3% with the raw numbers rising again. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The USA completes 88M, India 49M and Morocco 2M tests;
Ecuador amended their reporting methodology which reduced total cases by 8,200 but increased deaths by 3,780;
Bolivia made an adjustment to recorded deaths with a 1,170 increase;
Africa passes 30k deaths;

Hungary (576), Tunisia (265), Libya (1,085) and Israel (3,331) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[ford71V8]

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by prydey

Here is one being developed in Adelaide at flinders, and was one of the first to successfully complete phase 1 human trials, but now being hampered by lack of federal funding..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nin...0-d750342b1068

Federal govt tipping $10m into Oxford in the UK, but nothing in to a home grown product? Doesn't make sense to me.

Yes there is potentially the situation that a foreign government might end up securing access to a vaccine despite it being developed here

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Here's the video....

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...ideo-c-1297980

Not a great look ey. Reminds me of tram inspectors. 5 cops surrounding 2 elderly ladies. The "snatching" was not what I had imagined, from all the noise going around I thought there may have been a bit of rough play. Did he give it back, have they made a complaint? What is the lady holding? Looks like some kind of sign, there to incite a protest at the shrine? Not accusing just asking. Unless we know the full story its hard to judge, but I admit, the optics are not great.

Part of the problem is that police have not had sufficient training and experience in dealing with prolonged movement restrictions. No one would have anticipated the pandemic and what it might mean. I do have a mate who is an officer, she gets anxious every time she goes out, they are asked to enforce the "move on" instructions, but she is also aware of public perception. They have to make split second decisions on how to best react over and over again, many times a day.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The polls also said Hillary Clinton was going to be the next president of the USA and Brexit wasn't going to pass

Like Mark McGowan and his '90% approval rating' with a sample size of under 1000 people.

What was the sample size, what are the demographics who participated, what are their professions and where do they live.

You remind me of the Energiser Bunny. Both polls for Brexit and Clinton were close and inconsistent in the days leading up to those events as was the Scottish referendum if you want to drag in something else totally unrelated.

I've seen 3 polls in the last two days, covering more than 150k respondents across a broad socio-economic spectrum as you'd expect from responsible polling and even those that normally show an anti-Government bias are still on the plus side of the ledger. About the only one I have seen that is even close is the News.com.au poll which has all of 7,375 respondents and is 53/47 in favour.

Originally Posted by ute83

Is that you Dan? So an alternate view is discussed and you call it a busted myth, I don't think so. He was in charge of that dogs breakfast. The responsibility stops with him he has said on numerous occasions.

It has nothing to do with an alternate view. You are welcome to any view you care to hold but if you want to present that view here then do so with sound and reasoned arguments not placard waving platitudes.

Semantics. Your original statement was: Lets not forget that the second wave is entirely of Dandrews' own making but now you've back-tracked to state that he is accepting responsibility for what has happened - a point I don't disagree with.

The Oxford English dictionary definition for responsibility when used as an adjective is:

Adj.: the state or fact of having a duty to deal with something or having control over something

Indeed, you could safely argue that the degree of control over the events that an executive branch of Government actually exercises is quite removed, perhaps deliberately, from the implementation of their orders as we saw in the report into the Ruby Princess and will no doubt see in this present Victorian enquiry.

To suggest that any one individual is entirely responsible as your comment did, is not only factually incorrect but simply displays a limited understanding of the operations of Government.

That Andrews hasn't shirked from taking responsibility (used as a noun) for a series of events that were largely beyond his control and certainly well out of his purview, does him credit.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The polls also said Hillary Clinton was going to be the next president of the USA and Brexit wasn't going to pass
.

You forgot the bit about Bill Shorten being our PM Too......

Just goes to prove, There's only one poll that counts..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

You forgot the bit about Bill Shorten being our PM Too......

Just goes to prove, There's only one poll that counts..

Ask Sportsbet about that one

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ute83

Is that you Dan? So an alternate view is discussed and you call it a busted myth, I don't think so. He was in charge of that dogs breakfast. The responsibility stops with him he has said on numerous occasions.

Amazing that people still peddle that view.

It was his governments mismanagement that caused the second wave. 100%.

His governments mismanagement is well and truly proven by having the strictest lock down laws, yet is the only state to have covid still running rampant.

DaN HaS dOnE a GrEaT jOb

He hasn't shirked the media spotlight, which I will give him credit for, but he cannot shirk the responsibility for the mess the state is currently in. It rests on him, and the people he has working for him.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Amazing that people still peddle that view.

It was his governments mismanagement that caused the second wave. 100%.

His governments mismanagement is well and truly proven by having the strictest lock down laws, yet is the only state to have covid still running rampant.

DaN HaS dOnE a GrEaT jOb

He hasn't shirked the media spotlight, which I will give him credit for, but he cannot shirk the responsibility for the mess the state is currently in. It rests on him, and the people he has working for him.

In your opinion. There are those who don't see it the same as you.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

For sure - I need a talkback drive show on AM radio and then a show on Sky News at 8PM

I'm already following you on Twitter, can't wait for your appearance with Alan Jones or Paul Murray on Sky News

[Charliewool]

As an “outsider” looking in from the other side of our planet, and reading this thread on a daily basis I think...
What is becoming increasingly disturbing is the unbelievable division this virus is causing?
If you’re a “believer”, you’re labeled as someone incapable of making their own decisions and bowing to government control?
If you’re a “denier”, you’re labeled as an irresponsible wacko that doesn’t care about their grandma/grandpa?
I mean... Is THIS what Australia is becoming?
For nearly 4 years we’ve mocked and smirked at the US with the incredible divide Trump’s win has caused on their population....
FFS... The sheer utter hatred and contempt that republican supporters have for democrat supporters, and vice versa is unparalleled!
Is THIS where Australia’s future lies?
“A country divided, is a country defeated”
What happened to the great Aussie spirit of working together?
Sad, Sad bloody times Eh?

[Romulus]

At todays press conference, Premier Andrews was asked "How has the roadmap to recovery impacted unemployment modelling and how many more Victorians do you expect to lose their jobs over the next few months?"

"It's too early for us to put a definitive number on that part."

Unbelievable. So Andrews can use his super computer to model the number of cases and fatalities but has no detail on unemployment modelling when asked about the consequences of the lock downs, he still needs to consult with business and industry. Wow.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

As an “outsider” looking in from the other side of our planet, and reading this thread on a daily basis I think...
What is becoming increasingly disturbing is the unbelievable division this virus is causing?
If you’re a “believer”, you’re labeled as someone incapable of making their own decisions and bowing to government control?
If you’re a “denier”, you’re labeled as an irresponsible wacko that doesn’t care about their grandma/grandpa?
I mean... Is THIS what Australia is becoming?
For nearly 4 years we’ve mocked and smirked at the US with the incredible divide Trump’s win has caused on their population....
FFS... The sheer utter hatred and contempt that republican supporters have for democrat supporters, and vice versa is unparalleled!
Is THIS where Australia’s future lies?
“A country divided, is a country defeated”
What happened to the great Aussie spirit of working together?
Sad, Sad bloody times Eh?

Fear not Charliewool, most of us still understand the sensible decisions that benefit most Australians come from the centre of politics. There is a lot of noise from the fringe, if we pay it too much attention we are in danger of heading down the toxic path the US finds it's self.

I think we are better than that. And from my limited travels in the USA so are they.

Most people I know are sick of lock down and want it to end, but also understand why it is being done.

Pretty much everyone has an opinion on how they would do it different/better...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

In your opinion. There are those who don't see it the same as you.

Proof is in the pudding. How can he be doing a great job when Victoria is such a cluster fug?

Logic, not even once.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

As an “outsider” looking in from the other side of our planet, and reading this thread on a daily basis I think...
What is becoming increasingly disturbing is the unbelievable division this virus is causing?
If you’re a “believer”, you’re labeled as someone incapable of making their own decisions and bowing to government control?
If you’re a “denier”, you’re labeled as an irresponsible wacko that doesn’t care about their grandma/grandpa?
I mean... Is THIS what Australia is becoming?
For nearly 4 years we’ve mocked and smirked at the US with the incredible divide Trump’s win has caused on their population....
FFS... The sheer utter hatred and contempt that republican supporters have for democrat supporters, and vice versa is unparalleled!
Is THIS where Australia’s future lies?
“A country divided, is a country defeated”
What happened to the great Aussie spirit of working together?
Sad, Sad bloody times Eh?

I think you're looking back at Australia through rose tinted nostalgia glasses from an era long gone by, that isn't the Australia that I've known or experienced.

Maybe it's just a wrong end of the tracks thing relating to the industry I work in and Melbourne but there's not many how you describe.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Proof is in the pudding. How can he be doing a great job when Victoria is such a cluster fug?

Logic, not even once.

If I speed in my car and get caught, then that must be the manufacturers fault for not putting systems in place to stop it

There's your logic

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

If I speed in my car and get caught, then that must be the manufacturers fault for not putting systems in place to stop it

There's your logic

Gotta love the analogies that have nothing to do with the original point

Not even close. I would have been embarrassed posting something so far from the point

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Gotta love the analogies that have nothing to do with the original point

Not even close. I would have been embarrassed posting something so far from the point

Enlighten everyone then why the actions of those not complying is the fault of somebody else?

Perhaps Dan Andrews should've welded people's doors shut??

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Proof is in the pudding. How can he be doing a great job when Victoria is such a cluster fug?

Logic, not even once.

So here is some logic for you.

We still seem unable to separate the individual from the body corporate.

The public service (and indeed most Government departments) make a myriad of bad decisions or mistakes every day. Are these then deemed to be the 'fault' of Daniel Andrews?

We've previously discussed the notion of ministerial responsibility that dictated that a minister would sacrifice themselves if their department made a monumental enough stuff-up. It, of course, went out of favour sometime in the 70's either because (1) it was a seriously outdated notion to begin with or (2) Government just got too big for it to be feasible or (3) the almost un-sackable public servants were actually the ones pulling the levers that led to the stuff-ups.

If it were still in fashion, then the Minister for Jobs Precinct and Regions is the responsible minister anyway and not the executive branch of Government.

Let me diverge for a moment. At a stretch it could be argued that because the executive branch of Government (cabinet) selects the ministerial positions it should bear some responsibility for those who turn out to be bad choices and we do sometimes see that in the corporate world (albeit rarely) when a Board has chosen a CEO who turns out to be a dud and someone falls on their sword. I'm inclined, however, to think that it differs because the actual power in any ministerial portfolio actually rests with the permanent Departmental heads which is not the case in the corporate world.

However, it isn't in fashion any more than publicly blaming public servants is and for evidence let me point to the report from the Ruby Princess bungle which created a fair portion of the first wave in this country. While the report acknowledged that mistakes had been made at the 'lever-pulling' level, it also excused them on the basis that the public servants were doing their best. Personally; looking at the systemic failures in that process, I very much doubt that their best was anywhere near what we have a right to expect but they escape culpability anyway.

Likewise, that report acknowledged that the mistakes were too far removed from the executive branch of Government (= the politicians) that it laid no blame on them either.

You can argue until you are blue in the face as to whether that is morally correct but the fact remains that is how it is these days.

My question to you then is when did we wholeheartedly adopt the American 'populist' view of politics?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not even close. I would have been embarrassed posting something so far from the point

If I could be bothered, I'd quote some of your posts in this thread that would qualify from a logical stand-point but it would be an exercise in futility.

So let me give you an example (a real one) from the Corporate world where it is still common for titular heads (read CEO's) to get the shove when things go pear shaped. The only real differences in that environment are that (1) the 'voters' (shareholders) don't have to wait for an election to express their views; (2) Boards are often quick to avoid a share price melt-down and (3) the senior executives aren't a protected species like public servants.

The Banking Royal Commission cost 3 of the 4 CEO's at the big banks their job along with more than 200 senior executives but only one single Boards member (the NAB Chairman) actually resigned over the report.

Given that the Board is the equivalent of the executive branch of Government and the Chairman the equivalent to a Premier, only one of them (Ken Henry from NAB) was sufficiently embarrassed by the findings to resign although (1) he was probably offered the opportunity to resign rather than be sacked and (2) he got singled out for a savage caning in the report over his conduct during the RC and his position would have been untenable anyway.

In conclusion. If you don't like what the Andrews Government has done you have three options:

1. Vote against them at the next election;
2. Hope the current hotel quarantine inquiry slams him hard enough that he loses the support of his party; or
3. Suck it up.

I'm sure it won't come as a surprise when I say I've never voted Labour in 44 years of voting but every time I see negative Nancy (O'Brien) on the TV, I want to throw something heavy at it and I may well change the voting habits of a lifetime.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I think you're looking back at Australia through rose tinted nostalgia glasses from an era long gone by, that isn't the Australia that I've known or experienced.
.

Basically since social media started here.