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08-09-2020, 08:49 AM | #6211 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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08-09-2020, 08:59 AM | #6212 | |||
Chairman & Administrator
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Quote:
The independent polls seem to be suggesting that most Victorians are reasonably OK with the approach being taken which did come as a bit of a surprise. I do expect the targets to be modified as we proceed because thus far in Australia only the NT and ACT have had > 30 case free days so it may well be the impossible dream.
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08-09-2020, 09:09 AM | #6213 | |||
Thailand Specials
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Like Mark McGowan and his '90% approval rating' with a sample size of under 1000 people. What was the sample size, what are the demographics who participated, what are their professions and where do they live. |
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08-09-2020, 09:13 AM | #6214 | |||
The 'Stihl' Man
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
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Oh wait, give it a few more weeks.
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Last edited by Polyal; 08-09-2020 at 09:38 AM. |
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08-09-2020, 09:55 AM | #6215 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 548
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Is that you Dan? So an alternate view is discussed and you call it a busted myth, I don't think so. He was in charge of that dogs breakfast. The responsibility stops with him he has said on numerous occasions.
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08-09-2020, 09:55 AM | #6216 | ||
Thailand Specials
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08-09-2020, 09:59 AM | #6217 | ||
BOSS 5.4L Enthusiast
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08-09-2020, 10:02 AM | #6218 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 548
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Yes I am aware of these polls and I am embarrassed by this. But all the average joes that I have spoken to point to a different feeling amongst the people.
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08-09-2020, 10:08 AM | #6219 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,658
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Here is one being developed in Adelaide at flinders, and was one of the first to successfully complete phase 1 human trials, but now being hampered by lack of federal funding.. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nin...0-d750342b1068 Federal govt tipping $10m into Oxford in the UK, but nothing in to a home grown product? Doesn't make sense to me.
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08-09-2020, 10:20 AM | #6220 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 372
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Quote:
The fall in the share price could also be caused by rumours about how well their vaccine really works. However the US govt just gave them $1.5billion so maybe not. I think that Moderna is one of the companies that has a deal with Bill Gates to use the production facilities he has set up for mass production. The secret to making big profits out of this virus will be the capacity to produce huge amounts of vaccine as quickly as possible. Are you sure that it is their own executives that are dumping stock? |
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08-09-2020, 10:37 AM | #6221 | ||
Chairman & Administrator
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44 new cases for Australia and 9 deaths sees the CMR rise to 2.895% while active drop to 2,957. NSW recorded 4 cases; Queensland 2, WA 1 with the balance in Victoria.
4 new cases and zero deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.351% and active cases rise to 118. The UK had 2,948 new cases yesterday and as we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines we are going to ignore those figures. Just over 31k new cases in the USA yesterday and 430 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.991% and active cases remain at 39.3% with the raw numbers rising again. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences. Other notable points: The USA completes 88M, India 49M and Morocco 2M tests; Ecuador amended their reporting methodology which reduced total cases by 8,200 but increased deaths by 3,780; Bolivia made an adjustment to recorded deaths with a 1,170 increase; Africa passes 30k deaths; Hungary (576), Tunisia (265), Libya (1,085) and Israel (3,331) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.
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Last edited by russellw; 08-09-2020 at 11:56 AM. |
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08-09-2020, 10:42 AM | #6222 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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08-09-2020, 10:50 AM | #6223 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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08-09-2020, 10:57 AM | #6224 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,918
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Quote:
Part of the problem is that police have not had sufficient training and experience in dealing with prolonged movement restrictions. No one would have anticipated the pandemic and what it might mean. I do have a mate who is an officer, she gets anxious every time she goes out, they are asked to enforce the "move on" instructions, but she is also aware of public perception. They have to make split second decisions on how to best react over and over again, many times a day. |
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08-09-2020, 11:15 AM | #6225 | ||||
Chairman & Administrator
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Quote:
I've seen 3 polls in the last two days, covering more than 150k respondents across a broad socio-economic spectrum as you'd expect from responsible polling and even those that normally show an anti-Government bias are still on the plus side of the ledger. About the only one I have seen that is even close is the News.com.au poll which has all of 7,375 respondents and is 53/47 in favour. Quote:
Semantics. Your original statement was: Lets not forget that the second wave is entirely of Dandrews' own making but now you've back-tracked to state that he is accepting responsibility for what has happened - a point I don't disagree with. The Oxford English dictionary definition for responsibility when used as an adjective is: Adj.: the state or fact of having a duty to deal with something or having control over something Indeed, you could safely argue that the degree of control over the events that an executive branch of Government actually exercises is quite removed, perhaps deliberately, from the implementation of their orders as we saw in the report into the Ruby Princess and will no doubt see in this present Victorian enquiry. To suggest that any one individual is entirely responsible as your comment did, is not only factually incorrect but simply displays a limited understanding of the operations of Government. That Andrews hasn't shirked from taking responsibility (used as a noun) for a series of events that were largely beyond his control and certainly well out of his purview, does him credit.
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08-09-2020, 11:23 AM | #6226 | ||
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08-09-2020, 11:38 AM | #6227 | ||
Thailand Specials
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08-09-2020, 11:43 AM | #6228 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
It was his governments mismanagement that caused the second wave. 100%. His governments mismanagement is well and truly proven by having the strictest lock down laws, yet is the only state to have covid still running rampant. DaN HaS dOnE a GrEaT jOb He hasn't shirked the media spotlight, which I will give him credit for, but he cannot shirk the responsibility for the mess the state is currently in. It rests on him, and the people he has working for him. |
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08-09-2020, 11:56 AM | #6229 | |||
Donating Member
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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08-09-2020, 12:13 PM | #6230 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I'm already following you on Twitter, can't wait for your appearance with Alan Jones or Paul Murray on Sky News
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08-09-2020, 12:20 PM | #6231 | ||
Bolt Nerd
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ojochal, Costa Rica (Pura Vida!)
Posts: 14,821
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As an “outsider” looking in from the other side of our planet, and reading this thread on a daily basis I think...
What is becoming increasingly disturbing is the unbelievable division this virus is causing? If you’re a “believer”, you’re labeled as someone incapable of making their own decisions and bowing to government control? If you’re a “denier”, you’re labeled as an irresponsible wacko that doesn’t care about their grandma/grandpa? I mean... Is THIS what Australia is becoming? For nearly 4 years we’ve mocked and smirked at the US with the incredible divide Trump’s win has caused on their population.... FFS... The sheer utter hatred and contempt that republican supporters have for democrat supporters, and vice versa is unparalleled! Is THIS where Australia’s future lies? “A country divided, is a country defeated” What happened to the great Aussie spirit of working together? Sad, Sad bloody times Eh?
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Current vehicles.. Yamaha Rhino UTV, SWB 4L TJ Jeep, and boring Lhd RAV4 Bionic BF F6... UPDATE: Replaced by Shiro White 370z 7A Roadster. SOLD Workhack: FG Silhouette XR50 Turbo ute (11.63@127.44mph) SOLD 2 wheels.. 2015 103ci HD Wideglide.. SOLD SOLD THE LOT, Voted with our feet and relocated to COSTA RICA for some Pura Vida! (Ex Blood Orange #023 FPV Pursuit owner : ) |
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08-09-2020, 12:28 PM | #6232 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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At todays press conference, Premier Andrews was asked "How has the roadmap to recovery impacted unemployment modelling and how many more Victorians do you expect to lose their jobs over the next few months?"
"It's too early for us to put a definitive number on that part." Unbelievable. So Andrews can use his super computer to model the number of cases and fatalities but has no detail on unemployment modelling when asked about the consequences of the lock downs, he still needs to consult with business and industry. Wow.
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08-09-2020, 12:51 PM | #6233 | |||
Budget Racer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,421
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Quote:
I think we are better than that. And from my limited travels in the USA so are they. Most people I know are sick of lock down and want it to end, but also understand why it is being done. Pretty much everyone has an opinion on how they would do it different/better...
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08-09-2020, 01:12 PM | #6234 | ||
Peter Car
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08-09-2020, 01:46 PM | #6235 | |||
Thailand Specials
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Maybe it's just a wrong end of the tracks thing relating to the industry I work in and Melbourne but there's not many how you describe. |
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08-09-2020, 02:30 PM | #6236 | |||
Rob
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Location: Woodcroft S.A.
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Quote:
If I speed in my car and get caught, then that must be the manufacturers fault for not putting systems in place to stop it There's your logic
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08-09-2020, 02:32 PM | #6237 | |||
Peter Car
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Not even close. I would have been embarrassed posting something so far from the point |
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08-09-2020, 02:46 PM | #6238 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
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Quote:
Perhaps Dan Andrews should've welded people's doors shut??
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08-09-2020, 03:45 PM | #6239 | ||||
Chairman & Administrator
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Quote:
We still seem unable to separate the individual from the body corporate. The public service (and indeed most Government departments) make a myriad of bad decisions or mistakes every day. Are these then deemed to be the 'fault' of Daniel Andrews? We've previously discussed the notion of ministerial responsibility that dictated that a minister would sacrifice themselves if their department made a monumental enough stuff-up. It, of course, went out of favour sometime in the 70's either because (1) it was a seriously outdated notion to begin with or (2) Government just got too big for it to be feasible or (3) the almost un-sackable public servants were actually the ones pulling the levers that led to the stuff-ups. If it were still in fashion, then the Minister for Jobs Precinct and Regions is the responsible minister anyway and not the executive branch of Government. Let me diverge for a moment. At a stretch it could be argued that because the executive branch of Government (cabinet) selects the ministerial positions it should bear some responsibility for those who turn out to be bad choices and we do sometimes see that in the corporate world (albeit rarely) when a Board has chosen a CEO who turns out to be a dud and someone falls on their sword. I'm inclined, however, to think that it differs because the actual power in any ministerial portfolio actually rests with the permanent Departmental heads which is not the case in the corporate world. However, it isn't in fashion any more than publicly blaming public servants is and for evidence let me point to the report from the Ruby Princess bungle which created a fair portion of the first wave in this country. While the report acknowledged that mistakes had been made at the 'lever-pulling' level, it also excused them on the basis that the public servants were doing their best. Personally; looking at the systemic failures in that process, I very much doubt that their best was anywhere near what we have a right to expect but they escape culpability anyway. Likewise, that report acknowledged that the mistakes were too far removed from the executive branch of Government (= the politicians) that it laid no blame on them either. You can argue until you are blue in the face as to whether that is morally correct but the fact remains that is how it is these days. My question to you then is when did we wholeheartedly adopt the American 'populist' view of politics? Quote:
So let me give you an example (a real one) from the Corporate world where it is still common for titular heads (read CEO's) to get the shove when things go pear shaped. The only real differences in that environment are that (1) the 'voters' (shareholders) don't have to wait for an election to express their views; (2) Boards are often quick to avoid a share price melt-down and (3) the senior executives aren't a protected species like public servants. The Banking Royal Commission cost 3 of the 4 CEO's at the big banks their job along with more than 200 senior executives but only one single Boards member (the NAB Chairman) actually resigned over the report. Given that the Board is the equivalent of the executive branch of Government and the Chairman the equivalent to a Premier, only one of them (Ken Henry from NAB) was sufficiently embarrassed by the findings to resign although (1) he was probably offered the opportunity to resign rather than be sacked and (2) he got singled out for a savage caning in the report over his conduct during the RC and his position would have been untenable anyway. In conclusion. If you don't like what the Andrews Government has done you have three options: 1. Vote against them at the next election; 2. Hope the current hotel quarantine inquiry slams him hard enough that he loses the support of his party; or 3. Suck it up. I'm sure it won't come as a surprise when I say I've never voted Labour in 44 years of voting but every time I see negative Nancy (O'Brien) on the TV, I want to throw something heavy at it and I may well change the voting habits of a lifetime.
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08-09-2020, 04:06 PM | #6240 | ||
Cabover nut
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Basically since social media started here.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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