Commodore to get 3.0L V6 - Page 2

Chilliman · 10-06-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

out of interest...where did your info come from?? How reliable is it and more importantly....what is the torque. That is what really matters for large cars particularly for the 3.0 DI engine.

IF the info on Wikipedia is to be believed then between 290Nm and 302Nm

Mr Hardware · 10-06-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebloodxr8

Alloytech= torqueless wonder
I had the "pleasure" of a drive in a VE rental last month, gutless wheezing piece of crap.
The normal work rental is an Aurion, and its an absolute screamer, smooth and economical compared to the Rattletech.
The wife has a VY with an Eco motor, which is still no where as smooth as a ford offering, but at least it has some sort of soul and a bit of low down torque.
I can't wait to see Holdens next advancement in engine design.

Little twin cam screamers suit light weight cars or front drives like the Aurion, not a Commodore.

My thoughts exactly.
I'm glad my experiences (reply #1) are shared by more than just me.
The motor drives like a jap 4-cyl. You need to rev its head off to get it to move. Takes the pleasure out of driving.
People can bag out the ecotec till the cows come home, but up against the alloytec, the ecotec looks like a muscle motor.

galaxy xr8 · 10-06-2009, 08:32 PM

Well look at it this way people, if Holden release a slugish/torqueless engine in the future, atleast it might mean we won't see as many "P" plater's wrapped around a tree in the not to distant future.

kuzman89 · 11-06-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

A hollowed out cat will never make it sound good kuzman89.

Now thats just silly and illegal, stock cats.

The Monty · 11-06-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuzman89

Now thats just silly and illegal, stock cats.

It was only meant to be a joke. Ive heard one or two ol commodores, and i think they were both charged.

Fairlane · 11-06-2009, 02:26 PM

Pretty dopey move by Holden in fact really dopey. I though they were doing a dedicated LPG Commodore next year, that would a much better idea to get fleets sales than this piece of garbage etc.

I know what they are thinking, 3.0l is more efficent that 3.6l in the minds of dopey Holden buyers, but I reckon this motor is going to get blasted by the media, so no private people will buy it, and well fleets aint gonna touch it because- A) Most are stuck with a 4cly policy & B) The resale of these things it gonna be hidous.

I hope Ford stick to their guns and dont even think about bringing back the 3.3 I6.

Road_Warrior · 11-06-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

I hope Ford stick to their guns and dont even think about bringing back the 3.3 I6.

Perhaps. But a 3.2 litre version of the I6 with a low-boost turbo might work ok...

phillyc · 11-06-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Well look at it this way people, if Holden release a slugish/torqueless engine in the future, atleast it might mean we won't see as many "P" plater's wrapped around a tree in the not to distant future.

That's definitely a positive. But it also takes away one of the two reasons Commodores sell so well.

GMHolden sells more Commodores than Ford does Falcons, because "Bogans breed faster and crash more often."

kuzman89 · 11-06-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

It was only meant to be a joke. Ive heard one or two ol commodores, and i think they were both charged.

haha fair enough, isnt it like a $10,000 fine for illegal or no cats?? :togo:

I personelly think its a waste going 3L unless it gets a turbo.

I think they will still bring out a 3.6l DI, or even a 3.6l FI (praying here)

I remember back in 2007 when GM was considering the V12 alloytec,

phillyc · 11-06-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Perhaps. But a 3.2 litre version of the I6 with a low-boost turbo might work ok...

I've said similar to that before but got flamed for it...

I reckon the idea of a 20% smaller six, ie 3.2L DOHC DI i6 motor would be a ripper. 200kW/340Nm could be achievable. Economy of 9L/100km. Add in a low blow turbo, 225kW/450Nm.

The XR6T / F6 could keep the 4L motors but use DI.

marty1000cc · 11-06-2009, 03:46 PM

3.0 SIDI motor will join the current 3.6, 6.0 and 6.2 engines. People who have driven it (SIDI) rate it pretty highly.....Late August, Early September release at this stage.

vztrt · 11-06-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

I've said similar to that before but got flamed for it...

I reckon the idea of a 20% smaller six, ie 3.2L DOHC DI i6 motor would be a ripper. 200kW/340Nm could be achievable. Economy of 9L/100km. Add in a low blow turbo, 225kW/450Nm.

The XR6T / F6 could keep the 4L motors but use DI.

If Ford were to make the I6 DI they should reduce the capacity (even if for the lower model fleet hacks. If they could pull out the same power from a smaller DI and reduce the fuel economy and emissions (big now for fleets) then the fleets would see a large car that's using less fuel.

falcom · 11-06-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty1000cc

3.0 SIDI motor will join the current 3.6, 6.0 and 6.2 engines. People who have driven it (SIDI) rate it pretty highly.....Late August, Early September release at this stage.

marty1000cc do you have good information on this or are you just guessing?

Won,t the 3.6 be going Direct Injection as well.

naddis01 · 11-06-2009, 11:11 PM

I beleive Marty is on the money.

_2:

I also beleive 3.0 SIDI to be standard on lower models with 3.6 an option.

LPG EF2 GLI · 12-06-2009, 01:21 AM

It seems to me Holden are handing the volume selling market to Ford. Their cars will be more expensive to make (reducing profit), their fuel economy may only match Ford's I6 (which I'm sure Ford will further improve anyway), and won't have anywhere near the grunt. It may suit fleet buyers now, but what happens to things like resale when they hit the 2nd hand market? Everyone would surely pick the Falcon as the more capable and versatile car, which would make the 3.0L Commodore unsellable, and never to be bought again by the same fleet buyers.

**ebxr8240** · 12-06-2009, 01:28 AM

This could following on from fuel economy over the range of cars being bellow a certain level..As whats coming in the U.S...

PoweredByCNG · 12-06-2009, 02:46 AM

Nothing wrong with the performance of the Alloytec engines. They have enough in them to make acceleration effortless and they go through just as much fuel as a Falcon I6 in the real world. I understand that some people out there have real Friday builds, but our VZ SV6 is silky smooth (even when cold) and gearshifts are non-existent with the 5-speed auto.

Why would you want any more power when there are speed limits in the real world???

I am really keen to see how well the direct injection engines perform. Injecting fuel directly into the combustion chamber will significantly improve throttle response and torque band, even if peak torque is down.

Regards,
Dave

ST · 12-06-2009, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

but our VZ SV6 is silky smooth (even when cold) and gearshifts are non-existent with the 5-speed auto.

You may want to check what car you've been driving because it definitely isn't a VZ 6-cylinder alloytec with a 5 speed auto, unless your previous means of transport was a 40 year old school bus.

Wally · 12-06-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6t6m

couldnt see that this had been posted anywhere but please remove if it has been.

Apparently with the updates that are coming for commodore is a 3.0L V6 motor which will use direct injection (which there has been much speculation about).. its possible that the updated motor will also lose power from the current 175kw

havent posted a link before so i hope this works..

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...3496&pg=1&vf=0

As gen X people start to turn away from the bemouth tractors, two things will be in mind:- relief from fuel bills and ample room for what remains of the family. I suspect the allure of a car that puts out the same power as a 5.0 V8 did 10 years ago with half the fuel consumption will be compelling.

Meanwhile baby boomers and fat people will take up the tractors, because it's easier on the hips getting in and out. The baby boomers will have their eye on fuel economy too.

When Gen X starts producing babies, probably in their fifties, they won't have any use for family sedans or tractors, because they will get someone else to do the mundane stuff like driving kids to school, etc. :hihi:

merlin · 12-06-2009, 10:22 AM

The alloytec really is a terrible engine - worst in class, mated to an ancient worst in class 4 speed auto. They still sell huge quantities though, I am convinced Commodore would still outsell every other make no matter what piece of crap engine/gearbox combo they threw in it. People are just sheep unfortunatly.

marty1000cc · 12-06-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcom

marty1000cc do you have good information on this or are you just guessing?

Won,t the 3.6 be going Direct Injection as well.

Yes...my info is good, as i'm at the source.

3.6 will go to SIDI, time frame TBA....

Road_Warrior · 12-06-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty1000cc

Yes...my info is good, as i'm at the source.

3.6 will go to SIDI, time frame TBA....

I bet for now the 3.6 will be moved to the 195kw motor across the board (save for the 3.0L of course)

falcom · 12-06-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty1000cc

Yes...my info is good, as i'm at the source.

3.6 will go to SIDI, time frame TBA....

Surely Holden would have to make the 3.6 Direct Injected(for SV6 & Calais) at the same time as the bring in the 3.0 SIDI!

PoweredByCNG · 12-06-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

You may want to check what car you've been driving because it definitely isn't a VZ 6-cylinder alloytec with a 5 speed auto, unless your previous means of transport was a 40 year old school bus.

Don't know what you're on about.

It is a MY2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with the 5-speed sports automatic.

I'm sure I've got a good sample, as it doesn't clatter on startup, doesn't rattle and certainly doesn't lack power.

Regards,
Dave

Wally · 12-06-2009, 01:52 PM

The VZ SV6 had a choice of the six speed manual Aisin gearbag or the five speed paddle sequential yes?

PoweredByCNG · 12-06-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

The VZ SV6 had a choice of the six speed manual Aisin gearbag or the five speed paddle sequential yes?

That's right.

Regards,
Dave

naddis01 · 12-06-2009, 08:11 PM

Will be v6, 3ltr and 3.6ltr.
Standard will be 3ltr - Omega, Berlina..... Can option 3.6
SV6, Calais etc 3.6ltr.

Omega utes will not be 3ltr - that will stay 3.6

LPG EF2 GLI · 13-06-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Nothing wrong with the performance of the Alloytec engines. They have enough in them to make acceleration effortless and they go through just as much fuel as a Falcon I6 in the real world. I understand that some people out there have real Friday builds, but our VZ SV6 is silky smooth (even when cold) and gearshifts are non-existent with the 5-speed auto.

Why would you want any more power when there are speed limits in the real world???

I am really keen to see how well the direct injection engines perform. Injecting fuel directly into the combustion chamber will significantly improve throttle response and torque band, even if peak torque is down.

Regards,
Dave

Seriously sounds like there is something wrong with your car! I bet you're glad there are speed limits, seeing your car lacks the ability to shift gears. Seriously though, the alloytech is not as fuel-efficient as the old eco-tec, which to me indicates that it's a step backward. More technology should mean better fuel efficiency.

As to your comments regarding the similar fuel economy between the Commo and Falc, it may be similar with the VZ model, but not likely with the VE (200kg heavier!). And the VE's weight is on par with the Falcon, which goes to show how impressive Ford's fuel efficiency is.

ST · 13-06-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Don't know what you're on about.

It is a MY2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with the 5-speed sports automatic.

I'm sure I've got a good sample, as it doesn't clatter on startup, doesn't rattle and certainly doesn't lack power.

Regards,
Dave

I'm not doubting it isn't a bad car, but "silky smooth" and "non-existant" gear shifts are definitely not words to describe the 5-speed auto equipped SV6. I've driven my mates SV6 quite a few times and while it wasn't as completely gutless as I thought it definitely wasn't refined and smooth, the auto and alloytec were far from up to scratch for such a modern car.

Chilliman · 13-06-2009, 07:38 PM

I worked at a Holden dealership back in the VY days (as an accountant). Every time I took a 3.8Litre Ecotec Commodore out I would always be glad when I got back into my EF XR6. The 3.8 just felt underdone. Later as a consultant working in the public sector, there where occassions when I required the use of a government vehicle - usually a VZ commodore with the new whizz-bang Alloytech 3.6Litre. Let me tell you, that torque-less wonder made the Ecotec look good! It didn't get any better with the VE, even in SV6 form the extra mass counted agaisnt it - sure it had a rorty top end, but it was agony to the ears.

I just fail to see how a sub-300Nm V6 (302Nm at best), even with direct injection, will be anything other than lethargic.

You do realise that this engine in the US is reserved for mid-size FWD sedans (Buick LaCrosse) and FWD (not AWD) variants of medium SUV's like the Cadillac SRX and Chevy Equinox (okay - the Chevy looks like it will combine the 3.0L and AWD?).