Ahh, The Wonders of Freeway Driving...!

[Keepleft]

DEESUN: Re your post above regarding NSW lane discipline.

I work with the Road Users Handbook and have done so for a thousand years.

A few years ago in an effort to improve hideous on-road behaviour and poor lane-use discipline on motorway category roads here in NSW, particularly when on three lane sections, - I worked with EU folk, the UN, and domestic RTA staff to 'internationalise' our text in relation to the 3 or more laned sections.

Take this link and read Page 92: (Right click, choose save as).
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...englishweb.pdf

NOW again, take this link and you will see the immediate similarity to the NSW text.
http://www.td.gov.hk/road_safety/roa...ays_/index.htm

New South Wales is THE ONLY Australian jurisdiction that teaches its driver's what I'll describe as 'international motorway-category lane use text'. We identified many years ago that simply stating 'when on a freeway, keep left' simply didn't work, IT NEEDED TO BE SPELT OUT to road users clearly what one should do when on a three or more lane section.

The text you see on that RTA download is the result, AND it will be further tightened up to take into account right-hand Transit and E Tag lanes as applicable, AND with an actual diagram further emphasising the text, similar to that appearing at the Chinese link above.

The NSW text has been in place for around 7 years and on-road behaviour on freeway's has improved. Much more is to be done however, much, much more. The recent penalty changes to the 'keep left unless overtaking' rule now means a NSW licensed driver loses THREE demerit points for the offence.

To further aid the text, NSW began a long term road works program that results in a *NEW* freeway traffic lane - starting off to the right, so folk 'keeping left' on a two lane road are then fed into the 3-lane sections left hand lane. This is a direct reversal of our previous North American leaning which lead to poor lane behaviour and use, and is a move instead to Euro/UN practice.

This is exactly the same road lane method as is applied from India on its new and growing freeway network, to China, UK and the rest of Europe including Germany on the autobahn (mirror-reverse). The move with the text and lane layouts complies with Commonwealth obligations under the UN Conventions on Road Traffic.

Similar text had been supplied to SA, VIC, QLD BUT those states are dragging their feet but WILL fall into line.

The *growing* result will be improved traffic flow and beahviour over the long term. All part of the International harmonisation project for transport, a 'quite' 25 year adjustable plan which began 1998 or so from memory.

[deesun]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : N.S.W,

[turboute]

We already have a keep left law in WA and it does f**k all to ease congestion, we still get c**ts in the wrong lane going too slow - beleive me having the law does nothing unless the cops enforce it.

Also I am all for increasing the cost of licences I would happily pay $2-3000 if I knew that I was going to be trained decently (instead of parking tests) and I knew that all the other drivers on the road were similarly (and decently) trained. If the system obviosly works in other country's why can't we get a better system that works.

[Keepleft]

TURBOUTE wrote
"We already have a keep left law in WA and it does f**k all to ease congestion".


WHICH is why we in NSW have MODERN text. To much improve the flow - which it has, please take the links in my posts to see what I mean. SEE ALSO THE CHINESE LINK AND LOOK AT THE DIAGRAM. (It's English).

At the moment, WA is well down the list before its driver training manual gets European/UN freeway type lane use text a la NSW. Simply, the existing 'stakeholders' are too hard to work with.

Some employees see no desire for 'keep left' improvement on freeways in your State and frankly, cannot comprehend change.

The WA driver manual needs complete overhaul, a major major job. It will be done, but I'm not going to look at that State, again, till late this or early next year.

[Des]

Keepleft's right (?), there's enough idiots here that you need spell out common sense situations. It's finally starting to work though.

[gozza]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

The not merging at the traffic speed/speed limit is a big problem, it seems people get half way along the on ramp and their brains won't allow them to drive any faster than 70 km/h, then they try and merge with traffic going 50% faster then eventually speed up. I've driven old small 4 cylinder cars and achieved the speed limit with plenty of the on ramp remaining, so it's not a matter of lack of grunt, unless you are in a laden truck.

Another thing is the lack of ability some people have in maintaining speed up hills. Driving along downhill in an 80 zone and cars are speeding up to 85 or 90, but then it goes uphill and these cars are now doing 70km/h and slowing, while I'm gently brushing the throttle in 5th! So again, not a matter of lack of power on milder hills.

The merging issue is another one. If someone who has been driving alongside/in front of me or thereabouts needs to change lanes and indicates early, I'll let them in. If they come roaring up from behind despite seeing an obstacle in their lane and then try and cut in, I'll typically close the gap. I had some clown pull up at the lights in the left lane - about 200-300 metres after the lights the lane merges. Myself and the car infront of me took off from the lights at a moderate pace, I was close behind him without being too close. The guy in the left lane fell back a bit, then decided that now he could see the "left lane ends merge right" sign, he would accelerate and overtake me. He did this while his lane was disappearing and I had to hit the brakes to avoid a collision. Also there was little more than 2 car lengths between me and the car I had been following, so he never had a gap to merge into. I did check the (Vic) road rules, and since there was a broken line defining the lanes, even though his lane was running out, he has to give way to me, whereas "zip merging" is where there is no line but 2 streams of traffic having to merge into one and then the car in front has right of way. Where people do this properly I let them in. Another thing that is annoying is when I let a car in, then someone else continues to drive just past you and also push in. They should take their place in the queue and fall in behind so that each person only has to let 1 car in front, not 5.

are you a vigilante of sorts?
i agree with most parts of what you said but in the case of closing gaps when people are "raoring up beside you" ur making the situation worse
let em be..if they hit you then you can take action

[Mechan1k]

I can tell you about so many bad driver's out there as I'm a courier around Sydney's suburbs ... and when i am working ... I am in that traffic all day ... I see a lot of bad driving out there.

I do admit .. I used to drive like an idiot in traffic ... but eventually got out of it when i realised ... driving like a tool in traffic gets you nowhere ... literally.

As to people merging in at the last second ... they are allowed to ... it is ILLEGAL to block them from merging if they are slightly infront of you ... it's in the road rules for NSW. The onlt time I have blocked someone out is if they keep trying up the "emergency lane" trying to push in further up ... but that's all.

I don't see the use in trying to barge your way through anywhere ... you only get that extra one car ahead ... whoopdee doo.

Common Sense is lacking on our roads ... I see that all of the time ... and lazyiness is prolific as well (especially when it comes to looking in mirrors and over shoulders).

Also people need to know their vehicle better ... I had a women the other day slam on the brakes because the right turn lane was full ... she had plenty of room to pass (slowly if needed) ... but she came to a complete stop ... and she wasn't turning right either *shakes head*. I got around her when there was a gap ... but she kept sitting there ... until the lane moved a bit ... and she kept going straight.

More intensive practical driving tests are needed for everyone ... with a refresher course every few years ... just to make sure that person is up to date with laws and their driving knowledge.

We need to have that show back on with Ian Luff (even though the guy is a tool) and test people out ... if they don't pass ... bye bye licence (and car too).

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by gozza

are you a vigilante of sorts?
i agree with most parts of what you said but in the case of closing gaps when people are "raoring up beside you" ur making the situation worse
let em be..if they hit you then you can take action

And blocking them out is illegal (if they are slightly in front of you) .. if you jam the other person out in this fashion and hit them ... you are actually at fault as you failed to give way due to the "merging rule".

I say just let them go ... let them drive like an idiot ... eventually in due course they will have an accident or get caught doing something stupid ... or even pi$$ someone off enough that they will be put in hospital.

[JAJH]

There are a couple of issues that irk me no end. People who sit in the right lane under the designated speed limit with no consideration for other road users. I think theses people's cars didn't come with the optional "rear view mirror". Second one is trucks who hog the right lane or all three lanes at the traffic lights. And Third is the slow driver who does 40 in a 60 or 80 in a 100 zone. There has been so much controversy regarding the 'speeding laws' and the 'so-called' inevitable death you will cause by travelling at 2-5kmh over the limit, yet nothing, absolutely nothing is discussed about the more noteworthy dangers of the slow driver.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

And blocking them out is illegal (if they are slightly in front of you) .. if you jam the other person out in this fashion and hit them ... you are actually at fault as you failed to give way due to the "merging rule".

I say just let them go ... let them drive like an idiot ... eventually in due course they will have an accident or get caught doing something stupid ... or even pi$$ someone off enough that they will be put in hospital.

AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES
148 Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line
of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic
"(1) A driver on a multi-lane road who is moving from one marked
lane (whether or not the lane is ending) to another marked lane
must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as
the driver in the marked lane to which the driver is moving."
This deals with marked lanes

149 Giving way when lines of traffic merge into a single line
of traffic
"A driver in a line of traffic that is merging with one or more
lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as the driver
must give way to a vehicle in another line of traffic if any part
of the vehicle is ahead of the driver’s vehicle."
Whereas this applies when there are no lines, but 2 lines of traffic merging into 1

If I'm driving along and some guy drives up from 10 cars back drives past the queue in the correct lane to cut in, why encourage this behaviour by letting them in easily? If you want to merge, do you think, I'll hold my position in traffic, put my indicator on now and wait for someone to let me in (more or less the correct way) or do you think, I'll drive past all these people who did the right thing and got in the correct lane early, then cut in at the front by simply changing lanes regardless of whether I have a gap or not?

Gozza, people who force their way into non-existent gaps disrupt traffic flow, increase the chance of collisions and in general annoy me. Do you think that someone cutting in 2 feet ahead of you after momentarily putting their indicator on and then moving into your lane, with the full expectation that you will make way for them to be a safe way of driving?

GTFPV just had his car wrecked because someone did this to him on the motorway and then jammed on the brakes due to a broken down car up ahead, leaving no safe distance between cars and no time for GTFPV to create a new safe distance or to have any chance of stopping his car. There was no opportunity to let the other driver go either.

When I said I close up the gap, instead of driving 10-15 metres behind another car at 60 km/h, I'll cut it down to as little as half, to remove the temptation for people to move into that gap, which would make the gap less than 5 metres if I stayed where I was and someone cut in - not safe at all. I'm not about to swap paint to make a point, but the other car should be giving way to me, not the other way around as I'm already in that lane, and he wants to move to the lane I'm already in.

[Des]

pauljh74, NSW has introduced a road rule stating (basically) that you need to give way to merging traffic from a "lane that ends". It works if you use common sense. Though there's still lots of drivers out there who just refuse to use common sense (as GTFPV unluckily found out). Keep Left could probably provide the exact details of the rule.

[Mechan1k]

The law changed not too long ago ... I decided to have a crack at the National Driver's Licence test when it was on TV .... I said the same thing as Rule 148 as pauljh74 mentioned .... and guess what ... "I got it wrong" .. the rule states that you must give way to a vehicle merging if it has any part of it in front of you ... EVEN IF THAT LANE IS ENDING.

[pauljh74]

I got this from the NSW RTA site. An information brochure also shows a situation where 2 lines of traffic merge into one, but there are no marked lines defining the lane. This is where you have to give way to cars in the ending lane slightly ahead of you. That's rule 149
I'm happy to let people merge in if they are beside/in front of me, but I don't define them as being in front if they come from 2 or more car lengths behind while their lane is actually narrowing and get slightly in front just as their lane is physically disappearing and their car has no room and force their way in.

[gozza]

i know exactly how you feel
i had an incident along thos e lines...me being the "roaring up the side" person
i chased after some commy driving to work...accelerated past the dude that was in front of me(right lane) ...now im in the middle approaching a a van doing a fair speed less than me...the *** that i over took saw that and started accelerating along side me...i'm jumped across probly leavin 2 car lenghts distance but he still proceeded to hold his horn on for about 2-3mins then roared up beside me swearing and wanting to fight me lol

yes i was slighlty over the speed limit but this guy acted like an idiot by trying to close me out when he saw what was going on...was just a smarta%%

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by gozza

i know exactly how you feel
i had an incident along thos e lines...me being the "roaring up the side" person
i chased after some commy driving to work...accelerated past the dude that was in front of me(right lane) ...now im in the middle approaching a a van doing a fair speed less than me...the *** that i over took saw that and started accelerating along side me...i'm jumped across probly leavin 2 car lenghts distance but he still proceeded to hold his horn on for about 2-3mins then roared up beside me swearing and wanting to fight me lol

yes i was slighlty over the speed limit but this guy acted like an idiot by trying to close me out when he saw what was going on...was just a smarta%%

See this is the problem with people trying to block out drivers that scoot up the left hand side... They get frustrated. What happens if the driver of the car in the left lane is in a real emergancy - for instance has a severly injured kid in the bad seat and for some silly reason (panic anyone?) didn't call for an ambulance.

Perhaps their wife is pregnant on the back seat and again in panic decided to drive to the hospital emergancy department.

Perhaps the person in the left lane just wants to skip ahead on traffic. Why do you care? if you let them in, in a sensible manner it will delay you perhaps at most 30 seconds?! on a freeway 2 seconds?!

Don't care about the person on the left of you - don't hold them up. Be a safe and calm driver yourself and you will be less prone to accidents as a result and still get where you are going on time.

If you are running late to an appointment, that is your fault. Don't take it out on other road users.