Vfacts april 2022

[kevino]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Guys please, if theres going to be a **** fight in the Vfacts threads then its widely regarded that it'll be due to something I've said...

Now, I see that Ford only just managed to outsell MG and the gap is closing fast, with next gen Ranger being delayed how long until they fall from the top 10 as Holden did when its cash cow commodore fell off the charts, im going with Vfacts July 2022.

Come at me bitches..

I will take a bet on that Bent.

I think yes just think that the Chinese makes have supply issues now with the rigid covid restrictions in some part of China.
And with all brands smacking up prices every 3 weeks I will come out and say Puma now represents reasonable value in the low spec model.

Oh and my Skoda is off to the panelbeater on Monday after a druggie rear ended me while I was at a red light. When I took it in for inspection the guy said they just cannot get body parts for the Chinese brands which is really aggravating folks with an accident damaged Chinese vehicle.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The current model Focus (SA) is an absolute ripper car, have they been discontinued? I think maybe it was just too pricey for people to get around it in numbers, you hardly see any on the road around Melbourne.

As mentioned, only the ST left.

The price? Well, the Mazda 3, Corolla, Golf, i30 are all way more expensive than they once were. Ford were the first to raise the price and not play in the bargain basement end, they failed. And yet, people still pay the cash for the more expensive models.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

As mentioned, only the ST left.



The price? Well, the Mazda 3, Corolla, Golf, i30 are all way more expensive than they once were. Ford were the first to raise the price and not play in the bargain basement end, they failed. And yet, people still pay the cash for the more expensive models.

Focus never recovered from the Transmission fiasco. It's brand went to crap with that. Should've just stuck with the torque converter

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

As mentioned, only the ST left.

The price? Well, the Mazda 3, Corolla, Golf, i30 are all way more expensive than they once were. Ford were the first to raise the price and not play in the bargain basement end, they failed. And yet, people still pay the cash for the more expensive models.

Even though the Focus is the superior product compared to Mazda/VW/Toyota offerings, the Focus carries no weight in that segment so you probably won't even get people into the Ford dealership let alone behind the wheel when someone is in the market in that car category.

Plus the various fiascos and ****ty dealer experience is the cherry on top when they're already fighting with one hand behind their back.

[au2000]

Focus was dead once the whole cvt issue arose and how they treated customers, only blind Ford employees could not see how toxic that name plate became

[kypez]

Originally Posted by au2000

Focus was dead once the whole cvt issue arose and how they treated customers, only blind Ford employees could not see how toxic that name plate became

Dual Clutch... Not CVT

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Dual Clutch... Not CVT

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Just as bad though, CVT is junk

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Just as bad though, CVT is junk

Yes. Typically the Jap cars that have CVTs.

Back to Focus for a sec, What is interesting though is that VW managed to get away from a similar issue they had with their dual clutch (DSG) in the Golf (and their variants) but Focus never recovered. I wonder why that was.

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Yes. Typically the Jap cars that have CVTs.

Back to Focus for a sec, What is interesting though is that VW managed to get away from a similar issue they had with their dual clutch (DSG) in the Golf (and their variants) but Focus never recovered. I wonder why that was.

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Probably because for some unknown reason VW is considered a premium brand in Australia, so their cars are held in high regard by people who know nothing about cars, who make up the majority of new car buyers

Doesn't have a Ford badge on it which gets a lot of unwarranted hate from the muggles. It's not the car, it's what the others think about your new purchase

I'm looking forward to the day people start bleating on how their new next generation Amarok is 'way better' than the Ranger, hopefully it'll have the bazillion 'Fomoco' labels under the hood like the Mazda BT50 3.2 I5 does.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Where's Tesla?

Speaking of Tesla and the like have been told people installing charging outlets in their properties are getting large price increases in Property insurance Premiums, due to increase risk from fire.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kypez

Dual Clutch... Not CVT

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And dry dual clutch as well, iirc.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Just as bad though, CVT is junk

Actually no,Honda manufactures its own CVT & they rarely have issues.One of the best out there.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

Yes. Typically the Jap cars that have CVTs.

Back to Focus for a sec, What is interesting though is that VW managed to get away from a similar issue they had with their dual clutch (DSG) in the Golf (and their variants) but Focus never recovered. I wonder why that was.

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Ford tried to save money by using a dry clutch DSG that had problems it thought could be fixed on the fly,
VW used wet clutch DSG as did Ford with euro diesels and later Puma, not a problem.
Part of the dry clutch issue was vehicles weight, should have never gone in Focus

Interesting that Ford switched to proper 6AT in 2016 Australian Focus without a hitch
but what did hurt was Ford’s inept response to Powershift issues that became very public.

Ford’s desire to commit self harm knows no boundaries…..

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

VW used wet clutch DSG

VW used dry clutches at times too (in <250Nm applications).

[kypez]

Originally Posted by b0son

VW used dry clutches at times too (in &lt;250Nm applications).

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford tried to save money by using a dry clutch DSG that had problems it thought could be fixed on the fly,
VW used wet clutch DSG as did Ford with euro diesels and later Puma, not a problem.
Part of the dry clutch issue was vehicles weight, should have never gone in Focus

Interesting that Ford switched to proper 6AT in 2016 Australian Focus without a hitch
but what did hurt was Ford’s inept response to Powershift issues that became very public.

Ford’s desire to commit self harm knows no boundaries…..

Yep, the ones that failed were dry Clutches with VW

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Yep, the ones that failed were dry Clutches.

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Ask Yellow Festiva about his wet clutch DSG Focus he had, he'll let you know all the horror stories,

DSG should be left to high end exotics, not some commuter car with a $15,000 half *** underdone gearbox.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ask Yellow Festiva about his wet clutch DSG Focus he had, he'll let you know all the horror stories,



DSG should be left to high end exotics, not some commuter car with a $15,000 half *** underdone gearbox.

Oh, I was referencing VW.

And yes, high end Sports cars can have it. Torque converter works just fine before we dump gearboxes totally.

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hackney

Actually no,Honda manufactures its own CVT & they rarely have issues.One of the best out there.

Everyone love the Honda CVT until you come up for the flush service at $140/L for the oil that smells like anchovies

Its about time Honda got its **** together with a gearbox, the amount of autos I had to help pull out of Accord Euros in the 6 months I worked at a Honda dealership was ridiculous, get this right, because it couldn't handle the 'increased torque' from a K24 - they must have made the internals out of Soufflé 40,000km on the clock and 5 of us under the hoist trying to get the subframe from under the car to get the gearbox out. Weekly basis those turds coming out of those cars under warranty.

You know what works well? Torque converter auto, unless its the one in the 3.2L I5 Ranger with the metal shavings disaster from the torque converter bolts/washer rubbing on something or the Honda H5 and its Soufflé internals

Everything sounds awesome on paper until accountants are involved, then you end up with Pintos catching on fire, Explorer tyres exploding, Focus dry clutch DSG and 'they all do that'.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Everyone love the Honda CVT until you come up for the flush service at $140/L for the oil that smells like anchovies

Its about time Honda got its **** together with a gearbox, the amount of autos I had to help pull out of Accord Euros in the 6 months I worked at a Honda dealership was ridiculous, get this right, because it couldn't handle the 'increased torque' from a K24 - they must have made the internals out of Soufflé 40,000km on the clock and 5 of us under the hoist trying to get the subframe from under the car to get the gearbox out. Weekly basis those turds coming out of those cars under warranty.

You know what works well? Torque converter auto, unless its the one in the 3.2L I5 Ranger with the metal shavings disaster from the torque converter bolts/washer rubbing on something or the Honda H5 and its Soufflé internals

Everything sounds awesome on paper until accountants are involved, then you end up with Pintos catching on fire, Explorer tyres exploding, Focus dry clutch DSG and 'they all do that'.

Again you are wrong.Another fact, you should never ‘flush’ a CVT(fact) it does more harm than good.If you are a mechanic you should know that.All it is is what is called a ‘spill & fill’(fact yet again).$140L?Nearly chocked on my beer!How does $170 sound using OEM Honda HCF-2 fluid(labour incl) this was I might add @ my local Honda dealer.What are you buying @ that price?Gold?You we’re seriously overcharging customers @ that price.Honda as I alluded to manufacture their own CVTs in house,they have very little trouble.If you were talking Nissan,I would agree, their JATCO trans are terrible.In fact you can get OEM fluid for just over $50 for 3, just under a litre bottles.ZF ‘Lifeguard’ is dearer than OEM Honda fluid @ around $60 per litre.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ask Yellow Festiva about his wet clutch DSG Focus he had, he'll let you know all the horror stories,

DSG should be left to high end exotics, not some commuter car with a $15,000 half *** underdone gearbox.

You know the irony, Ford Europe developed the thing but never offered a petrol auto in their own Focus/Fiesta.
They were approached repeatedly by FNA to do a proper auto box for US market but refused to change their design.
Why the clowns just didn’t go with the auto 6F35 is crazy, mid gear lock-up made it just as efficient as that rotten DSG.
Whenever people would ask me about an auto Focus, I’d point them to the Mazda 3, a much safer bet pre2015.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

Oh, I was referencing VW.

And yes, high end Sports cars can have it. Torque converter works just fine before we dump gearboxes totally.

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Mid gear lock up is the major change to later auto boxes, makes them way more efficient.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hackney

Again you are wrong.Another fact, you should never ‘flush’ a CVT(fact) it does more harm than good.If you are a mechanic you should know that.All it is is what is called a ‘spill & fill’(fact yet again).$140L?Nearly chocked on my beer!How does $170 sound using OEM Honda HCF-2 fluid(labour incl) this was I might add @ my local Honda dealer.What are you buying @ that price?Gold?You we’re seriously overcharging customers @ that price.Honda as I alluded to manufacture their own CVTs in house,they have very little trouble.If you were talking Nissan,I would agree, their JATCO trans are terrible.In fact you can get OEM fluid for just over $50 for 3, just under a litre bottles.ZF ‘Lifeguard’ is dearer than OEM Honda fluid @ around $60 per litre.

Yeah righto bud, then why was it part of the service schedule on the CVT Jazz - its alright bro don't take it personally because you were one of the three people last year who bought a new a Honda, no need to get all upset I'm not judging you on your choices, you do you boo, jumping in here defending your choices like I'm ragging on your AFL team

Originally Posted by jpd80

You know the irony, Ford Europe developed the thing but never offered a petrol auto in their own Focus/Fiesta.
They were approached repeatedly by FNA to do a proper auto box for US market but refused to change their design.
Why the clowns just didn’t go with the auto 6F35 is crazy, mid gear lock-up made it just as efficient as that rotten DSG.
Whenever people would ask me about an auto Focus, I’d point them to the Mazda 3, a much safer bet pre2015.

Internal politics would be a big driver in poor decisions being made inter-company, it always is - Ford Taurus in Australia anyone?

Yep, agree completely when people ask for advice on what second hand car to buy if they're not changing their own gears then torque converter auto, there's a good reason anything with a DSG/CVT is cheap on the second hand market.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Internal politics would be a big driver in poor decisions being made inter-company, it always is - Ford Taurus in Australia anyone?

Two things happened, Ford had a Joint Venture deal with Getrag, building a plant to make the Powershift dry clutch gearbox and engineers reported continuing problems before engineering sign off, pressure was coming from the brass to keep costs down using low cost gearbox in place of auto, head of eng pushed it through assuming software patch would solve the issue…

Yep, agree completely when people ask for advice on what second hand car to buy if they're not changing their own gears then torque converter auto, there's a good reason anything with a DSG/CVT is cheap on the second hand market.

Quite a few Powershift Focus did their whole life with little if no issue, it just seems that when it plays up, it’s a total PIA.

[hackney]

[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo;6706525]Yeah righto bud, then why was it part of the service schedule on the CVT Jazz - its alright bro don't take it personally because you were one of the three people last year who bought a new a Honda, no need to get all upset I'm not judging you on your choices, you do you boo, jumping in here defending your choices like I'm ragging on your AFL team
Had my Honda nearly three years.No issues whatsoever.It does say CVT service @ 40,000k,I elected to get mine done @ 30,000k,it did not say ‘flush’.If you know anything about CVTs that is a no,no.Any reputable trans shop will tell you that.Go on ANY Honda forum, you will get the exact same answer. DO NOT FLUSH.(this for ANY CVT irrespective of the brand of car.)In fact the new Hybrid I am getting has a ‘CVT’,but not in the traditional sense.It does not have a belt & pulley system.It has a lock up clutch which connects the ICE to the trans @ speeds over 80-100 mph or when sudden acceleration is required.Learn something new everyday, don’t you?Back to ‘school’ for you.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its about time Honda got its **** together with a gearbox, the amount of autos I had to help pull out of Accord Euros in the 6 months I worked at a Honda dealership was ridiculous, get this right, because it couldn't handle the 'increased torque' from a K24 - they must have made the internals out of Soufflé 40,000km on the clock and 5 of us under the hoist trying to get the subframe from under the car to get the gearbox out. Weekly basis those turds coming out of those cars under warranty.

You know your gearbox is made of glass when you are worried about the torque level's of a K24 Honda engine...

Wifey had a CRV with a K24 (2015) and the one thing it DIDNT have was torque...

[kypez]

Originally Posted by hackney

Sorry, don’t follow AFL(that’s a ‘girls game’).

Take your sexism somewhere else

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Take your sexism somewhere else

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Notice how he edited it out after you called him out on it, you can **** talk women using their gender as a way to describe something you look down on, just don't pay out on his precious Honda

Originally Posted by hackney

Had my Honda nearly three years.No issues whatsoever.It does say CVT service @ 40,000k,I elected to get mine done @ 30,000k,it did not say ‘flush’.If you know anything about CVTs that is a no,no.Any reputable trans shop will tell you that.Go on ANY Honda forum, you will get the exact same answer. DO NOT FLUSH.(this for ANY CVT irrespective of the brand of car.)In fact the new Hybrid I am getting has a ‘CVT’,but not in the traditional sense.It does not have a belt & pulley system.It has a lock up clutch which connects the ICE to the trans @ speeds over 80-100 mph or when sudden acceleration is required.Learn something new everyday, don’t you?Back to ‘school’ for you.

Explain the 8L used as part of one of the services in a box that takes circa 4L? Sounds suspiciously like a flush to me when the workshop manual tells you to drain a box, fill it, drive it, drain it and fill it again, call it whatever you want

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Notice how he edited it out after you called him out on it



Explain the 8L used as part of one of the services in a box that takes circa 4L? Sounds suspiciously like a flush to me, call it whatever you want

As I quoted, it was not a flush(fact).As I alluded to, if you are what you say are (mechanic) you should know better. It is I pointed out correctly a ‘spill & fill’, something you seem to know nothing about.Back to school again for you!This is not going to get resolved so I suggest we agree to disagree.Further more it is not a ‘precious’ Honda it’s a car, nothing more nothing less.As far as AFL goes it was more sarcasm than anything else.Time to build a bridge & move on.

[Vesper Martini]

I've only driven a couple of CVTs
I a pathfinder it was horrid, kept in high revs all the time its like the Vehicle is too heavy for it.

In a Corolla, it was perfect, kept the little car at low revs so used little fuel and was quiet so really didn't notice the one gear feeling.

I think a lot of anti CVT stems from people who want a Manual anyway.
but.. Manuals are disappearing, new Fords have 10 speeds so will feel like a CVT anyway as a good auto you wont feel any shift

or you could end up drive an EV with no gear changes anyway..

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

I've only driven a couple of CVTs
I a pathfinder it was horrid, kept in high revs all the time its like the Vehicle is too heavy for it.

In a Corolla, it was perfect, kept the little car at low revs so used little fuel and was quiet so really didn't notice the one gear feeling.

I think a lot of anti CVT stems from people who want a Manual anyway.
but.. Manuals are disappearing, new Fords have 10 speeds so will feel like a CVT anyway as a good auto you wont feel any shift

or you could end up drive an EV with no gear changes anyway..

Same experience in that I felt the car was just revving high and wasn't fun. In theory, it should be more fuel efficient with infinite number of gears so to speak but it felt weird coming from traditional Autos. Supposed to keep the car in its sweet spot longer in theory. Also, when you mash the pedal, it takes longer for the band to get to the right point/ratio.

The 10 speed still gives you those kickdowns that people have come to love. I do agree they feel a bit CVT hunting for the right ratio and revs all over the shop). I personally hate All Automatics (I'm one of those who just love Manuals). EVs are the only "automatics" that I like that aren't really automatics.