Wish Ford Australia would sell this here instead of the Everest

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by mik

I dont know if 8 speed is a good thing or not, no doubt it would be good in a drag race, but i can imagine it hunting around a bit for the right cog in certain situations ?

Everything I have read about the ZF-8 suggests otherwise. Seemingly perfect ratios and calibration. Always selects the best gear. I haven't driven anything with it myself.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Is it a driver's car like the Territory and X3?

The Americans think we're like them but we're not. They don't understand how we drive. They produce slush-buckets or drive similar from Toyota etc. I'd be deeply sceptical of any car designed in America. The Everest has something going for it if it's designed in Australia. The Explorer and Edge don't. I've never heard a good word about the driving pleasure and primary safety of Jeeps. Even if they're rear-wheel based, I don't think they're a qualitative substitute for Territory.

So true on all your posts here new2ford. "Ford builds an Aussie X5 for Falcon bucks" was the magazine byline in 2004. So where does one go after? X3, maybe the Jag SUV, RRS, Cayenne. Maybe an Outback 3.6R? Mostly, it's a substantially higher spend for that kind of ride/handling post-Territory, and it's mostly AWD.

[new2ford]

Funnily enough, the X3 (Territory's closest and probably only genuine substitute) is offered in 2WD (RWD) in Europe, but the Australian market is considered to be not interested in RWD in this class of car. Within the next couple of years I reckon BMW showrooms are going to be surprised by a diaspora of ex Territory owners out on the streets looking for an equivalent "fix"! And after all the X3 pricing starts in the Territory Titanium ballpark.

That it can only be substituted by a BMW is a tribute to Territory's remarkable design. I'd rate it as Ford Australia's greatest achievement. I really think Ford USA simply doesn't understand the class act they have to follow with the Territory. Or perhaps they do and they're hoping people will forget and fall into line with global dumbing down.

Or more likely fall out of line and go with the competition. They'd better give that Australian design centre plenty of work.

[FPV GTHO]

The problem comes down to Ford Europe doesn't want anything bigger than a Kuga, so anything bigger is still to American tastes as that's where the most will be sold.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Is it a driver's car like the Territory and X3?

Territory is a drivers car? Territory in the same league as an X3

I'm guessing you would not know what a drivers car is if it backed over you.

What do you consider Tarago and a Honda Odyssey? A supercar?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I'm guessing you would not know what a drivers car is if it backed over you.

I'm not going to parade my CV on a public forum but don't presume! I'm surprised you described your Territory as "sloughish". Maybe there was something wrong with it? I note that Wheels and some other reviewers have been still describing it as a class benchmark several years after it was introduced and in spite of many other models of other brands that have come out since.

It's also blindingly self-evident that in this thread we're talking about cars on stilts (a large part of the automotive segment nowadays) and their performance within that constraint. Quite obviously the Territory, X3 etc are not going to be "drivers cars" to the extent of any exceptional low-slung car model.

Re BMW, I find the X5 not quite as sharp and sprightly as the Territory but it's grown bigger so I wouldn't expect it to be. It's almost imperceptibly close though. The X3 matches the Territory, maybe even a tad better and certainly a better ride that irons out the bumps (if not in Sport). The whole BMW fitout is of course much nicer, as it should be since you pay more for it (and the badge). Whether they're as cheap to fix is another matter. But then you'd buy a Camry if that's what you want and bugger the drivability. Moving on from a Territory is a bit like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Vesper Martini]

Territory is 1898 x 4883 x 1716
X5 E70 is 1933 x 4857 x 1776
current X3 is 1881 x 4648 x 1661

whilst that may all look close, the X3 dimensions are closer to that of a RAV 4.
sorry but in my book its a smaller vehicle weight and towing capacity etc.

for the record Explorer is about 2200 x 5000 x 1790 so a little bit bigger again

[Stefan]

^^^^Not to mention most are 2.0 litre.

In a two minute search I noted 6 cyl diesel X3 with 80,000km 3 year old asking $55K....newer with low kms we are starting to get into $80K+ but then it is still a mid size SUV. Looked for a 7 seater version, couldn't find any. I have no idea where the Terri / X3 comparison comes from.

Completely different car in a completely different league, one thing I've noted that all current Terri owners seem to view them with rose color glasses.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Territory is 1898 x 4883 x 1716
X5 E70 is 1933 x 4857 x 1776
current X3 is 1881 x 4648 x 1661
whilst that may all look close, the X3 dimensions are closer to that of a RAV 4.
sorry but in my book its a smaller vehicle weight and towing capacity etc.

for the record Explorer is about 2200 x 5000 x 1790 so a little bit bigger again

I've been through the dimensions of most of the popular SUVs in the general class. Actually some of your figures are wrong. X3 is 4657 long, 1678 high.

For a start, X3 is closer to Territory than RAV4, but in any case you've made the mistake of looking at external dimensions only. Most Asian-originated vehicles make poor and inefficient use of internal space compared with the European design approach (which includes Ford Australia). Ever noticed for example that you never get internal dimensions in Toyota marketing literature?

X3 is almost the same wheelbase as Territory (3 cm difference). The measurement from front footwell to back seat is pretty identical. The boot space behind the back seat in the X3 is actually slightly bigger than the Territory - a tiny bit shorter but wider and higher, adding up to more volume. And that's all below the cargo cover. On top of that, the X3 has the standard BMW pop-up cargo barrier so you can pile luggage up to the roof, unlike the Territory where, for safety, you have to keep it below the cargo cover unless you want it all in the back of your neck in an accident. So, fore to aft inside, the X3 matches the Territory, with a lead in luggage capacity.

Crossways, the Territory is ahead (by 6 to 7 cm), as it is with all its competition. It's a proper family car and you can get the couple of child seats and baby capsule across the back seat. With the X3, 3 adults in the back seat are more squeezed and you'd be looking at two baby seats/capsules. It's a car for when the babies and kids have mostly moved on, no question about that. However the RAV and all its ilk are even narrower. The Asian SUVs (including the Captiva too) are mostly quite narrow, tall vehicles, which wouldn't do wonders for their stability either.

Vehicle weight? I would have thought that nowadays, the lighter the vehicle the better. Most X3 fuel consumption figures leave the Territory (especially petrol version) for dead. Towing? Certainly you'd be using a Territory for your big boat etc but the X3 isn't exactly a slacker either - about 2000 to 2400 kg.

I'm only arguing for the X3 as a Territory replacement at the Ghia/Titanium level. Certainly you'd be mostly past the lifecycle stage of carrying lots of littlies and their mates. I'm also bearing in mind a price ballpark.

If money is no object, you can certainly move onto the X5 which has everything the Territory provides, including most of the drivability and handling. But we're talking about a hundred grand. I'm trying to be realistic here! I still rest my case that the X3 is pretty-much the only vehicle to offer almost all the qualities of the Territory within an overlapping price range. And most other popular offerings in the price ballpark are a barge to drive, which is the original point I'm making.

Originally Posted by Stefan

one thing I've noted that all current Terri owners seem to view them with rose color glasses.

Probably because when you actually get in an X3 and drive it, the similarities are immediately obvious to a Territory owner/driver. Have you actually done that?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Stefan

one thing I've noted that all current Terri owners seem to view them with rose color glasses.

On further reflection this is ambiguous. Do you mean seeing the X3 through rose colours or the Territory through rose colours?

Here's a very good example of the dilemma faced by Territory owners post-Territory. Amazingly, more Australians buy these than Territorys:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25789C001C88B2

And he hasn't even mentioned that the Captiva is smaller on all significant internal dimensions than the Territory. It's even smaller than the X3, just longer and taller on the outside.

I don't think there's anything rose-coloured at all about the way Territory owners would see things. Post-Territory, in the price class there's nothing to replace its combination of drivability and practicality except crap. I'm sure Ford USA, taking note of the fact that many Australian car buyers are apparently happy with crap, will readily lower the bar. After all, internationally it's a tiny market for them.

I'll certainly be looking at Everest and Edge when they come out but I won't hold my breath.

Incidentally, second-hand examples of the current X3 (post 2011) are now down in the $40,000s.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I've been through the dimensions of most of the popular SUVs in the general class. Actually some of your figures are wrong. X3 is 4657 long, 1678 high.

For a start, X3 is closer to Territory than RAV4, but in any case you've made the mistake of looking at external dimensions only. Most Asian-originated vehicles make poor and inefficient use of internal space compared with the European design approach (which includes Ford Australia). Ever noticed for example that you never get internal dimensions in Toyota marketing literature?

X3 is almost the same wheelbase as Territory (3 cm difference). The measurement from front footwell to back seat is pretty identical. The boot space behind the back seat in the X3 is actually slightly bigger than the Territory - a tiny bit shorter but wider and higher, adding up to more volume. And that's all below the cargo cover. On top of that, the X3 has the standard BMW pop-up cargo barrier so you can pile luggage up to the roof, unlike the Territory where, for safety, you have to keep it below the cargo cover unless you want it all in the back of your neck in an accident. So, fore to aft inside, the X3 matches the Territory, with a lead in luggage capacity.

Crossways, the Territory is ahead (by 6 to 7 cm), as it is with all its competition. It's a proper family car and you can get the couple of child seats and baby capsule across the back seat. With the X3, 3 adults in the back seat are more squeezed and you'd be looking at two baby seats/capsules. It's a car for when the babies and kids have mostly moved on, no question about that. However the RAV and all its ilk are even narrower. The Asian SUVs (including the Captiva too) are mostly quite narrow, tall vehicles, which wouldn't do wonders for their stability either.

Vehicle weight? I would have thought that nowadays, the lighter the vehicle the better. Most X3 fuel consumption figures leave the Territory (especially petrol version) for dead. Towing? Certainly you'd be using a Territory for your big boat etc but the X3 isn't exactly a slacker either - about 2000 to 2400 kg.

I'm only arguing for the X3 as a Territory replacement at the Ghia/Titanium level. Certainly you'd be mostly past the lifecycle stage of carrying lots of littlies and their mates. I'm also bearing in mind a price ballpark.

If money is no object, you can certainly move onto the X5 which has everything the Territory provides, including most of the drivability and handling. But we're talking about a hundred grand. I'm trying to be realistic here! I still rest my case that the X3 is pretty-much the only vehicle to offer almost all the qualities of the Territory within an overlapping price range. And most other popular offerings in the price ballpark are a barge to drive, which is the original point I'm making.


Probably because when you actually get in an X3 and drive it, the similarities are immediately obvious to a Territory owner/driver. Have you actually done that?

No sorry I haven't driven an X3, as they have never entered my search criteria two reasons for a replacement to mine. no 7 seat, and a carsales query give me the cheapest 2011 6 cyl model at $45,00 with 71k on the clock, they go north from there

but I did actually come up next to one at the lights last night, they are much bigger, but I certainly sat taller. but I think you are right they can be compared now, but I think the Jeep is still the closest rival
and I agree with you on internal space My Territory is much larger inside than our Prado, sitting 3 adults or car seats in the second row for example

I do like the Heavier car for how they feel to drive, and tow.

For me this is why the Explorer looks like a great replacement. and is how I would see
But I am concerned about what its price would be, I'm looking keenly to see what the Mustangs go for
I haven't written of Edge, and Everest can be compared to our other car.

why are you so quick to write off the Explorer, I assume you haven't driven one?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

why are you so quick to write off the Explorer, I assume you haven't driven one?

That's true. But will they be available in Australia to try? If so, I'll certainly add it to the list. I find the dimensions and general look too big though.

I admit reputation prejudice plays a role. American barge with dodgy history and all that. The original X3 was not too good either. I wouldn't recommend a pre 2011 (i.e. pre-current model) one.

[Vesper Martini]

From this article it will be:
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news...7#.VIEB0a24aM8

Ford Everest

This is not the replacement for the Ford Territory, but the Ford Everest will give the blue oval brand a shot in the arm when it arrives next year priced from about $45,000.

Ford Edge

This also is not the replacement for the Ford Territory. Contrary to other reports, the Ford Edge (unveiled in the US earlier this year) is a five-seat SUV designed to appeal to young families that don't need seven seats.

Think of it as a rival to the Toyota RAV4 and Mazda CX-5. It's due in Ford Australia showrooms in late 2015 or early 2016.

Ford Explorer

Now this IS the replacement for the Ford Territory. The next generation Ford Explorer (North America's top selling SUV, the new version of which is yet to be unveiled) will replace the Territory in late 2016.

Ford Australia doesn't want to let the Territory name die but it's likely the vehicle will wear its US name. However, we may see the Territory badge on a model variant of the Explorer

[Vesper Martini]

and this more recent one:
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news...3#.VIEIf624aM8

[new2ford]

Somebody ought to tell the Ford dealer sales staff then. They've been briefed differently from Uncle Josh and his "well-placed insiders" (the board room tea ladies?)!

Probably more likely no single one will be an exact "replacement" for the Territory, but between them they will encompass the market niche. Whether any of them will have the good driving dynamics is an open question.

[danzvtil]

Explorer is not being made in RHD, the new model will be based on the Mondeo/fusion, and not Taurus(which shares an ancient,heavy platform with Volvo s60).
So even the Americans loose an AWD wagon based on a locally made large car in the quest for One Ford.

[FPV GTHO]

Next Taurus is based on Mondeo/Fusion too, so in a round about way the Explorer will still be based on Taurus.