Ford Announces New Engine Direction

[rodderz]

Petrols wont be phased out for a while yet but there will be some very good diesels to head into the future within the next few years

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

You do realise where diesel comes from too.. I'd much rather see a more efficient Petrol engine.

While diesel's generally use slightly less fuel the fuel is dirtier and more expensive and they have massive on-going maintenance costs, which cancel out the cheaper running costs. I agree a diesel option would be great but it really cannot replace the petrol range.

Although no one has mentioned Hybrids they sure will sometime I'm sure... Until they can actually pollute less than a Hummer (due to highly pulluting batteries) they can stay in their Niche category "I'm a celebrity and I care for the environment cause I drive a Prius and the Media says they pollute less."

i havent even seen one petrol hybrid car get the economy of a diesel? that audi a8 example i mentioned is just a taste of what we can expect.. 230kw, 650nm torque, 0-100 in 5.8 seconds, 2 tonne weight, and 9l/100ks city driving.
Howabout the ultimate, diesel hybrid with displacement on demand

[Perana]

Sure diesels are good.. BUT they will not replace Petrol engines.. Not in the near to mid-term future anyway. As you said diesel is a by-product of the refining process, so whenever there is petrol there will be diesel and also LPG, so for a while yet there will be a combination of all 3 around not just one or another.

Hybrid diesel would be alright.. once they find a battery good enough for the power requirements that poses little or no issues to the environment when it is disposed of.

[ECOJET]

i never said it :p like i said u guys refer to petroleum diesel, which is the dirtest diesel.. biodiesel is getting very popular now and you can make it yourself it in your own garage! same power as diesel, far cleaner, and itll loosen the stranglehold the middle eastern countries have on the world.. WIN WIN.
btw im not a greenie/hippy lol

[HSE2]

Well for my money is been a bad week for Ford.
For any Ford enthusiast in recent history the biggest difference between the Falcon and Commodore is the inline engine and not just raw numbers. The way it works the way it goes about its business is unmatched in the segment. For some it’s an automatic walk to dismiss competition strengths and surely one of the last pieces of Australia-ism. A way of life, and a valued one at that.

I feel sorry for the workers that will lose their positions and not only those currently employed by Ford. Any loss of production like this has a knock on effect often measured at double to three times those of the directly affected.

I feel sorry for Ford. A delicate piece of news that will in some part make life more difficult than it should be. Instead of ramping up for the release of a very important new model Ford will continually be on the back foot defending a situation that was always inevitable. Orion won’t just be about how good or not it is, but on and about the upcoming new engine line. It remains to be seen if marketing has the strength to turn what potentially is a hugely negative milestone into a positive. This is one reason why manufactures don’t like the consumer knowing in advance what is happening to product. Orion is now dated before its release adding even more pressure to line currently underperforming. It’s a diversion Ford didn’t need in the lead up to Orion and it remains to be seen what affect if any it has on sales. It will make some people think and that by itself isn’t desirable. No one likes buying a product that has so blatantly been outed before its time. It again brings back the question of Australian content and the scrutiny of the VE for a similar departure at its launch. People in glass houses!

I feel this is the only decision that protects the best interests of Ford in this country. There is a greater good and this action is it. Cast iron construction and economies of scale were always going to be the knife in the back of the inline six. Obviously any loss of content control isn’t desirable and to a degree that’s what will happen. Anything global often lacks target qualities in favour of a wider reaching nature. The characteristics that are important to one market won’t be given the same attention. It remains to be seen if FPV “enhance” donor product to bring back some of these elements in products of a more discerning taste. One thing is for certain.
Personally it will be very hard for any V6 to match the exactly qualities of the inline six. Instead it will bring new characteristics foibles and issues both good and bad.
People shouldn’t be out to punish Ford for what everyone one of us does automatically in every walk of life. We in some part are to blame for everything that happens in a consumer driven world. Our buying habits, our decisions impact on products. We make similar choices everyday with every consumable we buy, often based on economy. We are smaller versions of every corporate board.
There is no point talking about what an engine will be like in 2 years. People that feel strongly about the subject need to work out what they value as a characteristic of the inline six and make sure those points aren’t lost on Ford. Believe me Ford Australia and the excellent engineers we have know about the inherent issues of the V6 design and they know how important torque delivery is. Make sure the baby isn’t thrown out with the water. Make sure the real issues aren’t lost and that any change is a step forward not sideways or god forbid, backwards. The inline six will be a hard act to follow, make sure the attention is on that. A replacement not only need to be economically viable to the company, but it has to match consumer expectations. If it doesn’t vote will your feet. Many will feel a hit to the loyalty pouch. The inline six has earned respect. After all these years, after all the marketing effort to praise its design and worth, Ford now have to convince those loyal consumers it was just a corporate line. Respect isn’t given, its earnt and sometimes 47 plus years is a lot to undo. Never ever go into bat to defend corporate lines. It inevitably won’t be the truth just advantageous to their best interests at the time.
Ford and their new engines have a lot of work to do. Hopefully in time people will open their minds to what should be the next chapter, but that chapter needs to be judged on facts and not blindly. Open mind and judge on merit.
Again my thoughts are to the families that have an uncertain future, be that directly or indirectly. Reality of life is never easy to accept under the circumstance and nor should it. It could happen to anyone of us each by our own hand.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

i never said it :p like i said u guys refer to petroleum diesel, which is the dirtest diesel.. biodiesel is getting very popular now and you can make it yourself it in your own garage! same power as diesel, far cleaner, and itll loosen the stranglehold the middle eastern countries have on the world.. WIN WIN.
btw im not a greenie/hippy lol

Ahh yes biodiesel is a different matter...

E85 is another option too, which the Duratec is compatable for.

[ECOJET]

ive only read about one real ethanol car, was it a volkswagen? dont remember.. but it made a significant amount more power than petrol, but the economy was something like almost double the consumption, so they have a lot of work to do there

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

lol diesel is a byproduct of crushed canola seed... every fast food restaurants' waste could power your car.
petroleum diesel is one form of diesel, there are many others.

No BIO-DIESEL is a by product of cooking oil. DIESEL that comes out of the pump is made from crude oil :

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by the_judge

I sent the following letter to the 7:30 report.


Remark I watched your story. I was quickly appalled in the way you glossed over many of the realities. Ford are stopping production of their locally made inline 6 engine that produces more power and torque for less fuel than Holdens imported v6. ..........

Holden may import parts for the V6 (due to Castalloy closure) but the GM engine is built in Australia and export to SAAB, Fiat, Vaxhaul and others.

If Ford Australia planned ahead they may have done the same.

[mcflux]

ECOJET, tell me how many acres will be needed to supply the market's needs for biodiesel or ethanol if magically every new car ran on these.

But we're getting off topic here. Or maybe that's because all the I6 lamenters/V6 haters are clearing out Big W's Kleenex stocks?

Global V6 + RWD + Falcon survival + majority of 600 jobs reabsorbed into the Ford empire >> I6, even if it is a kickass engine.

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

ECOJET, tell me how many acres will be needed to supply the market's needs for biodiesel or ethanol if magically every new car ran on these.

But we're getting off topic here. Or maybe that's because all the I6 lamenters/V6 haters are clearing out Big W's Kleenex stocks?

Global V6 + RWD + Falcon survival + majority of 600 jobs reabsorbed into the Ford empire >> I6, even if it is a kickass engine.

an insane amount, point taken.. but lets just at least hope there is a diesel engine as an option by 2010, if not then somethings very wrong.

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

No BIO-DIESEL is a by product of cooking oil. DIESEL that comes out of the pump is made from crude oil :

you can buy biodiesel at a pump? though there obviously isnt many around, especially in aus..

[mcflux]

That's pretty different to what you were intially saying ;)

Yes, a diesel option would be a smart move.

[Aussie Falcon]

Hi, Anyone own the Bill Tuckey book 'True Blue, the 75-year history of Ford Australia' ? Have a read of the final chapter and it puts allot of this in perspective and for how long an announcement like this has been on the cards.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

ECOJET, tell me how many acres will be needed to supply the market's needs for biodiesel or ethanol if magically every new car ran on these.

You and I have had this discussion before Dave(least i think so). Ethanol is quite feasible as its own industry because of the massive amounts of wastage in the food chain, from farmers dumping oranges and fruit to promote higher prices, to Woolworths dumping fruit and veg thats expired from their shelves(In which case we are leveraging even imported produce). The biomass is there, someone just needs to pick it up. Also there have been some large leaps in yeast manufacturing, strains are being developed that produce higher alcohol per kg of biomass then ever before. Theres a river of untapped biomass out there "lost in waste".

In regards to other posts in this thread:

At the end of the day, its a bloody air pump. No design will live forever. Was there this much wailing and gnashing of teeth at the death of the windsor in australia when the modular motors were introduced? Its essentially the same thing that has occured again, and its a reality of the global market now days to streamline where you can, and use a common platform in a global supply chain.

It may take a few years but aftermarket support will grow again(Wipe away them tears), and the benefit will be that the US Aftermarket will support it as well, which equates to alot of choices and options for products, far more then what we have today for the I6 which is very limited when compared to US motors.

Now its a shame that 600 workers lost their jobs, which will likely end in more job losses both in ford and supporting industries, but it happens. They have mortgages and loans to pay etc etc, children to support yadda yadda. We have all been there and life moves on. Its happened to most of us.

I doubt there was this much crying when they stopped producing the flathead FFS.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

ethanol

nup, wasn't me! We normally discuss jihad tactics or which pets recycle better ;)

I think your comments regarding production of ethanol from waste biomass would be an excellent idea, but I doubt it would be able to replace conventional fossil fuels altogether. Anything that contributes to the reduction of "terminal" waste is a good thing, and an ethanol industry based upon waste biomass would be a positive step in reducing the landfill/GHG emissions issues as well as taking a bite out of our addiction with fossil fuel. Maybe we should start (restart?) a thread based on ethanol/other biofuels to keep the V6/I6 debate on course? Well, as close to on-course as one could get...

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

you can buy biodiesel at a pump? though there obviously isnt many around, especially in aus..

As I once worked in the food service industry I can tell you know that the amount of Bio - Diesel the average fast food restaurant only produces about 130L of raw used cooking oil a week. At the moment it is a cheap option but if everyone switches to it you'll find demand will outstrip supply. Bio Diesel works well on the small scale but it is no smoking gun in the fight for cheap fuel. :

[blueoval]

congrats on your 3000 post sourbastard.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

No BIO-DIESEL is a by product of cooking oil. DIESEL that comes out of the pump is made from crude oil :

There is also a coconut oil which runs diesels, but it blows a heap of white smoke (although doesnt smell like normal stuff) and can't be as healthy as filters need to be changed every 3000km

I'm sujre there will be a diesel option within a few years anyway. Hopefully, we get the good stuff too, the diesel that Europe gets.

[SSBUB]

my hilux 2.4td surf runs on biodiesel...has done for 65thou kms...in winter it pays to do a half and half mix because it can be a pain to start when its real cold, however summer is no probs....costs me and the old man about 40c per litre to make.

[Nostalgia]

IMO if it aint got a i6, it aint a Falcon. Long Live The Legend, FORD i6. 1960-2010. The only bent motor for a FORD is a 351 Cleveland.

[Mr_4.0]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

You do realise that a 335i isn't made here either..

You would be surprised to know how much of the Falcon is imported.. even major parts of the I6 are imported... Crank (UK) and Heads (Mexico) just to name 2..

umm.. head doesnt come from mexico...... its from geelong mate. cast and assembled....

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by EAadam

IMO if it aint got a i6, it aint a Falcon. Long Live The Legend, FORD i6. 1960-2010. The only bent motor for a FORD is a 351 Cleveland.

Yes, long live the Falcon I6 Legend!

Bathurst Wins: Nil
Supercar Championship Wins: Nil
Group A Wins: Nil
Nascar Wins: Nil
Indianapolis Wins: Nil
Taxi Drag War Wins: Millions

[#Russ#Es#]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Yes, long like the Falcon I6 Legend!

Bathurst Wins: Nil
Supercar Championship Wins: Nil
Group A Wins: Nil
Nascar Wins: Nil
Indianapolis Wins: Nil
Taxi Drag War Wins: Millions

[Perana]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Yes, long live the Falcon I6 Legend!

Bathurst Wins: Nil
Supercar Championship Wins: Nil
Group A Wins: Nil
Nascar Wins: Nil
Indianapolis Wins: Nil
Taxi Drag War Wins: Millions

You forgot:

Number of Head gaskets changed: Millions

[mcflux]

Didn't the XL "win" Bathurst in '62 or '63?

There is also a coconut oil which runs diesels

Oh that's just great, now Fiji is going to join OPEC and the Commodore dictator is going to give himself a promotion to Senator, Statesman or call himself "GTS" (Gangsta Trippa Supaviza)

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

At the end of the day, its a bloody air pump. No design will live forever. Was there this much wailing and gnashing of teeth at the death of the windsor in australia when the modular motors were introduced?

Tut tut tut!! Come on SB... have you forgotten the gihad declared by 5 - 10 of the T taliban over in the winged corner over that!!

[blackwood]

The XL won the last 500 at Phillip Island before the race was moved to Bathurst.
IIRC, Bob Jane and Harry Firth were the drivers.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Didn't the XL "win" Bathurst in '62 or '63?



Oh that's just great, now Fiji is going to join OPEC and the Commodore dictator is going to give himself a promotion to Senator, Statesman or call himself "GTS" (Gangsta Trippa Supaviza)

cant wait to see all those allergic to nuts falling over dead from the exhaust fumes from Caltex Coconut 98.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Tut tut tut!! Come on SB... have you forgotten the gihad declared by 5 - 10 of the T taliban over in the winged corner over that!!

LOL @ T Taliban. Let us all face Broadmedows and pray before the Infidels introduce another motor!