Ford Announces New Engine Direction

[mcflux]

Falcon Freak, how about wearing the flag while burning it?

VeloXR6, your world is at an end? Phone 13 11 14 24

[edit] Top sig there, MRJUCY :P

[TZENU]

I think we are all jumping to insane conclusions!!!

Ford isn't going anywhere!

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

Ok sure it is bad and yes they have every right to be angry
BUT
unlike many others who lose their jobs or are relocated these people have 3 years notice, a lot can happen in 3 years. Instead of moping around whining and complaining, use the time productively to find another job. The problem with this country is too many people want the best in life but are not prepared to work for it then have the audacity to complain when they lose their job.

Don't blame the assembly workers, they rightly put their faith in management.

Ford management have failed again! They failed with the introduction of the AU, forcing them to make decisions that save Ford Australia and their jobs.

The reshape of the AU to the BA, the comercial vehicles, the LPG engines and then the Territory put Ford Australia in a position to expand; they failed.

Holden and Toyota are the two strongest vehicle manufacturers in Australia; Why? Because they export in large quantities.

Ford Australia have failed to develop a decent export market.

Their claim that the I6 engine production was uneconomical due to the low numbers is correct, yet Toyota and Holden are both producing engines because their mangement planned for the future and got the ball rolling.

Ford Australia, as we know it, is dead. Prepare to see Ford models based on overseas products, after all; if engine production was too low to be viable why isn't Falcon and Territory production also too low? They are!

My 2 cents :evil3:

[mcflux]

Well with the dollar currently at insanely strong levels, exports are probably suffering at the moment.

[Dave_au]

16 pages of emotionally charged posts over an engine.

Does anyone here actually work at the Geelong factory? Some FFAU members seem more irate than most of the employees on TV yesterday.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Geoff understood the Australian market. The problem is that this decision was not decided by Tom Gorman. He is just a stooge acting on behalf of his US task masters.

I suggest a ceremonial burning of Ford flags in front of the Geelong engine plant be organised. Mine is ready.

FF

Just proves you have no idea what it takes to be competetive and to survive in in the automotive industry in Australia.

You complain about Ford AUS not being able to establish an export program, well have a think about what's been holding them back!

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

16 pages of emotionally charged posts over an engine.

Does anyone here actually work at the Geelong factory? Some FFAU members seem more irate than most of the employees on TV yesterday.

Let's seek Dr Phil's help

[Mark351]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Geoff understood the Australian market. The problem is that this decision was not decided by Tom Gorman. He is just a stooge acting on behalf of his US task masters.

I suggest a ceremonial burning of Ford flags in front of the Geelong engine plant be organised. Mine is ready.

FF

That is just plain offensive and frankly clearly uneducated. I have no doubt in the current climate Geoff would have made the same decision.

Those 'task masters' are restructing a global company to ensure it's very survival.

All this discussion about Australia possibly being used to R&D global RWD/AWD platforms and you bleat about the demise of an orphan engine with no use to any export program.

I'm sure the decision was as hard for Tom as it was for any other member within Ford. They knew it would be emotive, but this is descending into outright stupidity.

[S3SR]

falcon or barra...thats not a choice, because theres no falcon without an I6

i can see alot of pre 2010 falcons getting bought to do an engine swap

DeathXR said its better than no FORD or even no Falcon

[the_judge]

I sent the following letter to the 7:30 report.


Remark I watched your story. I was quickly appalled in the way you glossed over many of the realities. Ford are stopping production of their locally made inline 6 engine that produces more power and torque for less fuel than Holdens imported v6. Such a thing was an achievement for australian engeneering and its a sad thing to lose it. Now to stay competitive in a global market we must import v6's (ford duratec engines are really good ones albeit making the best engine list several times recently). This is to keep costs down on a global scale and make it all streamlined and efficient and save money.....ford as a worldwide company cannot continue to make a "one" engine - the Australian BARRA i6 for "one" market - Australia in a car that is meant to be a volume selling vehicle. The fact remains that the engine is a feat in australian design and engeneering and should be commended nd praised, not made to look evil. And as an extension of that NEITHER SHOULD FORD BE MADE TO LOOK EVIL. Its merele a matter of fact that one engine that can be made worldwide in the millions of units and dropped into lots of different models of cars is simply more economical. Yes, 600 people may end up losing their jobs in THREE YEARS TIME in Geelong and we all feel for them. But let me ask you, how many employers give their workers THREE YEARS NOTICE?

Somehow you have demonised the story; somehow you almost sensationalized it. The so called experts could have easily been left off the program. Tell it true - they were only there so you could tell people you had "experts", not because of the things they may say. Thats something other current affairs shows do. Please leave it out of your play-book. No, please!

Maybe you should leave out the experts next time.

Another disparagy is that Holden lost a lot of money too recently. Markets change. Its not because the people at Holden are stupid - they are not. No one can predict the future and sometimes you get it wrong. Ford did the same.

Ford made some mistakes in the past. At least the Barra 182 was made BY AUSTRALIANS FOR AUSTRALIANS and made more power and torque for less fuel than its IMPORTED RIVAL. Why cant we point out Australian brilliance for once and lament its passing.

In some ways, that australian ingenuity's worth the 40 mill loss!!!

How about some experts come out and saying that! At least he'd be saying something people would not mind hearing and even PROFOUND.

When all the dust clears Ford Asutralia will not end up being what your report painted - a backwards archaic branch of ford that must make terrible cars.

A more positive spin should have been accommodated to the story and the experts should have been left out.....but its my thinking that you made the story to appease the 600 workers and the backlash from the public and therefore had to make ford the "evil" enemy.

But never 7:30 report.....I MEAN NEVER

NEVER LIE TO THE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE AGAIN.

Don't dish up a catering and pandering sympathy story like that again if you cant unequivically keep all the facts true in context to the end.

You might as well run a Holden ad.

Its kind of disgusting.

You obviously made a mistake, and its just my view, it could be different, but on this occasion I feel I am right. And I am therefore unimpressed.

The fact of the matter is - to wrap everything up in one thought - its better to lose 600 jobs in geelong than to lose the entire company in australia because people want to cling to an engine thats too good for a car that costs 35,000 dollars and too expensive to make in a shrinking car segment with factories and set-ups that were built to cater for a huge large car segment.
People should know its ok to say goodbye to the massively impressive engine that the Barra i6, made by Australian engineers and workers in australia, IF it means we can create more than 600 jobs again in Australia someday from Ford.

Thats what this was all about. Your report muffed it up and blurred everything.



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[mcflux]

Originally Posted by S3SR

falcon or barra...thats not a choice, because theres no falcon without an I6

i can see alot of pre 2010 falcons getting bought to do an engine swap

You mean, post 2010 V6-engined falcons having an older I6 shoehorned into them? You'll need plenty of KY for that to occur.

[mcflux]

lol @ 100 word max

[Perana]

Ford Australia, as we know it, is dead. Prepare to see Ford models based on overseas products, after all; if engine production was too low to be viable why isn't Falcon and Territory production also too low? They are!

Apart from the new R&D centre investments and the current ongoing development of a Light Commercial vehicle at FoA for the South east Asian market.. or the development of the Indian Fiesta... I'd expect more to be developed here and either exported or at least the design exported overseas.

Also isn't it the plan that the "all new" Falcon become the basis for a new platform for which many other FoMoCo vehicles will be based on.

[The Stylist]

I wonder how well the 3.7L Duratec V6 would go if TwinForce was added to it?

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by the_judge

Ford are stopping production of their locally made inline 6 engine that produces more power and torque for less fuel than Holdens imported v6.

But Holden don't import V6s, they build the V6s here based on a global design. There goes your letter to the ABC mate, they'll probably bin it after saying that.

[cool65]

HOPE IT'S NOT A REPOST

[edit] Duratec 35
Main article: Ford Cyclone engine
The Duratec 35 (code-name Cyclone) is a new 3.5 L V6 that appeared in fall 2006. It is an all-aluminum engine based on the Duratec 30, and adds variable cam timing on the intake side, a feature already found on the Jaguar AJ30 and Mazda AJ versions of the 3.0.

The Duratec 35 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2007.

The new heads relocate all accessory drives to the front of the engine with a flush chain drive, saving space. The new combustion chambers are reshaped as well. A dual-stage variable length intake manifold, centrally-located sparkplugs, and a 10.3:1 compression ratio are other features. The Duratec 35 is ULEV-II compliant and is said to be capable of meeting the PZEV requirement as well. The dual-stage intake manifold was part of the Duratec 30.

Engine output will eventually exceed 300 hp (224 kW), but will be 265 hp (198 kW) and 250 ft·lbf (339 N·m) at launch, a substantial upgrade in power from the Duratec 30.

The engine is the same exterior size as the Duratec 30, and should be usable in all vehicles currently using that engine and its derivatives. The company expects the engine to be used in one fifth of all Ford products by the end of the decade.

The Duratec 35 will replace the Duratec 30 in some applications (notably the Ford Taurus) by the end of that year, but the Duratec 30 will continue in production.

The Duratec 35 is unique in that it will deliver its 265 hp (198 kW) rating on regular (87 octane) gasoline, giving it an advantage when compared against its Japanese competitors of similar displacement and power levels. There is a 3.7L version with 275hp/270tq, slated to go in a fwd passenger car around 2008-2009.

The Duratec 35 is expected to replace the Barra I6 engine in the Australian Ford Falcon and Ford Territory models, following the announcement that Ford Australia will close it's Geelong engine plant in 2010.

[russellw]

I presume that there are some here who bemoan the loss of the manual toaster, the XT computer and twin tub washing machines because that is about the only reason I can see for the anguish being expressed by some on the demise of an engine that has fallen victim to the changes wrought by the global economy.

All of those things, the I6 included, were a great tool in their day when we had nothing better but it has been a mystery to me for a long time how FoA could continue to pour money into development of an engine that only suited a small niche market and now that question has been answered.

For those concerned about the upcoming replacement, I have only one comment. Don't be.

In standard form the Duratec 3.5 produces 198 kW and 339 Nm on regular unleaded as compared to 190/383 for the current 4.0.

In 3.7 form it is expected to produce 220 kW / 375 Nm when it is released next year.

Furthermore the TwinForce unit produces 321 kW / 542 Nm and is capable of running on E85 which compares more than favourably with the current I6T at 245/480 or even the Typhoon 270/550.

Personally I am looking forward to seeing some recent design technology under the bonnet of a Falcon.

Russ

[Mako6]

Originally Posted by russellw

For those concerned about the upcoming replacement, I have only one comment. Don't be.

In standard form the Duratec 3.5 produces 198 kW and 339 Nm on regular unleaded as compared to 190/383 for the current 4.0.

In 3.7 form it is expected to produce 220 kW / 375 Nm when it is released next year.

Furthermore the TwinForce unit produces 321 kW / 542 Nm and is capable of running on E85 which compares more than favourably with the current I6T at 245/480 or even the Typhoon 270/550.

Personally I am looking forward to seeing some recent design technology under the bonnet of a Falcon.

Russ

Without a torque curve those figures mean nothing... no good if peak torque is at 5000rpm.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Mako6

Without a torque curve those figures mean nothing... no good if peak torque is at 5000rpm.

Ford Australia will have a pretty good idea as to the expectations and what is required of the replacement engine. Latest technologies like VCT, D.I. cylinder deactivation etc, will give them the tools they need to develop and tune the new heart of falcon the way we like it.

Give them a chance to prove themselves i say, instead of writing them off 3 years before they've even had a chance to showcase the new product.

[irlewy86]

It ststes that it produces 198kw on 87 octane. I wonder if it will be tuned for 91 and above in Australia

[mcflux]

the "87" octane number in the US is computated under a different rating system to our fuels. I believe "87" is the equivalent of our "91" fuel.

Our fuels are pretty crappy actually.

[HLC]

dissappointed :( oh well.

[Perana]

Without a torque curve those figures mean nothing... no good if peak torque is at 5000rpm.

Peak Torque means SFA.. it may have Peak at 5000rpm.. but who knows it may have 90% of that at 3000rpm.. That is what is important.

Also I wouldn't place huge faith in the figures of the current Duratec engines.. FoA have 3 years to "tune" the engine to gain more torque.. This could be as easy as different ECU tuning and a set of cams! Both of which are perfectly feasible to occur.

[gazza750]

well hopefully ford will regain market leadership which they gained when gmh went to the commodore but LOST when gmh introduced the v6 so maybe the v6 is in the best interests of ford australia .
fair enough i own a ford i6 and will own it for years but if you see the world wide trend it is for the v configuration.
even nissan has gone down that path.
look at group a racing in the early 90's dominated bu an i6 nissan rb26 tt now the performance nissan (the new nissan GTR runs a v 3'5 l )
i cant see why everyone is crying like babies over something we have no control over .
at least it is keeping ford in australia and not completely closing shop

[ECOJET]

well i would seriously hope ford and holden are not producing petrol engines in 2010.
they're losing a huge market already by being so slow to switch to diesel.

[mcflux]

Surely you can't be serious... You want to see petrol banished in the model lineups by 2010?

[ECOJET]

absolutely. diesel cars are the future, 40% of new car buyers in europe buy diesel.
why not... 4 cylinder economy, insane torque.. they are the perfect street engine
and if you think they cant go, check out the audi A8.

[irlewy86]

You couldn'r run ever car in Australia on Diesel. Diesel is a by product of the refining process. Thats why it used to be so cheap. If every car switched to Diesel it would run the price up until it was just as ecconomical to run your car on petrol. Diesel (the fuel) isn't a viable long term soloution to increased fuel prices.

[Perana]

You do realise where diesel comes from too.. I'd much rather see a more efficient Petrol engine.

While diesel's generally use slightly less fuel the fuel is dirtier and more expensive and they have massive on-going maintenance costs, which cancel out the cheaper running costs. I agree a diesel option would be great but it really cannot replace the petrol range.

Although no one has mentioned Hybrids they sure will sometime I'm sure... Until they can actually pollute less than a Hummer (due to highly pulluting batteries) they can stay in their Niche category "I'm a celebrity and I care for the environment cause I drive a Prius and the Media says they pollute less."

[ECOJET]

lol diesel is a byproduct of crushed canola seed... every fast food restaurants' waste could power your car.
petroleum diesel is one form of diesel, there are many others.